"Intervention" for overweight friend. - Page 5

[Smokering]

It's a lot more complicated than the math in post 67. For instance, if you're African-American your body will store calories as fat more efficiently and let go of that fat more reluctantly. The reason for this dates back to the Middle Passage, where the AA population went through a bottleneck due to starvation on the slave ships. Those that survived were those who had the ability to store fat efficiently. This happens to be a well-studied example: people of other cultures likely have similar genetic quirks, which are historically harder to determine.

It's also not terribly useful math, unless one is so phenomenally in tune with one's body that one knows how many calories one is using up day by day. Eating a spoonful of food less every day on the grounds that one might be using up less energy than one is consuming seems a rather bizarre attitude to take to food - all it takes is one phone call while one's hopping out of the shower and one's going "underweight" again.

I don't see how you could say anything useful in that situation. Clearly something is not right with her. It's like when you try to talk to your mother about something she did to you as a child that you thought was horrible, and she has no clue what you are talking about, or has a completely different memory.

I agree. It doesn't sound like your friend's issue is overweightness. Implying you ate food she ate sounds passive-aggressive at best (Wives and Daughters, anyone?). I'd call her on that without mentioning her weight, which is none of your business. "Um, I didn't eat any of that bread" would do, and her reaction (whether "I know, sweetie, I was kidding" or "What? Where did it go? Did I eat it?") would likely give you a clue as to where she's coming from.

[bcblondie]

Everyone's metabolisms are different based on height, frame, amount of muscle and yes, even fat. Moving a heavier body does take more calories. But you need to work with what you got. Yes goign into starvation mode can be killer on your metabolism, I've been there. But it CAN recover. Lots of proteins and fluids helps.

[Catubodua]

Originally Posted by Smokering

I agree. It doesn't sound like your friend's issue is overweightness. Implying you ate food she ate sounds passive-aggressive at best (Wives and Daughters, anyone?). I'd call her on that without mentioning her weight, which is none of your business. "Um, I didn't eat any of that bread" would do, and her reaction (whether "I know, sweetie, I was kidding" or "What? Where did it go? Did I eat it?") would likely give you a clue as to where she's coming from.

don't want to drag this too far afield, but i have said "um, i didn't eat any of it" and she rolls her eyes at me and kind of makes this "pfft" noise like she's thinking "whatever" and chooses not to answer me.

i could give many examples of things like that, for instance, where we go to an all you can eat buffet place and she pushes all her empty plates on my side of the table as if they were mine all along.

i have to think on this a bit more. you gals are offering me a different point of view that it's not a weight/control issue so much as it is something else going on in her head / in her life that causes her to not realize what she's doing. i had not thought of this before.

[Smokering]

Everyone's metabolisms are different based on height, frame, amount of muscle and yes, even fat. Moving a heavier body does take more calories. But you need to work with what you got. Yes goign into starvation mode can be killer on your metabolism, I've been there. But it CAN recover. Lots of proteins and fluids helps.

Are you actually suggesting people go into starvation mode? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Catubodua: The behavior you describe is really off. Like, mighty odd. I wouldn't want to say weight/body image issues have nothing to do with her behavior, but there's definitely more going on there than her weight (I mean, how many overweight people do you know who do that?). She sounds kinda sad. Does she just do this to you, or to other people? Does she "rewrite history" on other issues as well as food? (Not sure where I'm going with this, as I have no expertise in psychology: I'm just curious!)

[Catubodua]

i'm not sure if she does this to other people or not. when we go out it's usually just the two of us. and, i have noticed she does this for other things too - like with money / costs of things. she'll make a comment about how her and her husband are trying to quit smoking because of the cost. she said we need that $400 a month for other things. i don't smoke so i asked how much that was and she said they both smoke a carton per week and the carton costs $78 each. i did it in my head real quick (at $80 per) and said "god, that's actually closer to $650 per month, not $400!" and went through the math i did in my head.

she'll agree and say "wow it's higher than i thought!" but, an hour later, she'll buy something and say "well, i guess we don't need that $400 this month" as if she's either forgotten what we said or she just doesn't want to acknowledge it.

as for other overweight friends, no, none of them do anything like that. if they do say something like i ate all the bread when i hadn't touched it, it's because they are joking and they know they are teasing me and it's a joke we share, not something they really believe.

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Are you actually suggesting people go into starvation mode? I hope I'm reading that wrong.

Oh that is absolutely not what I meant!! I just meant that IF you've been like me and you've damaged your metabolism by eating too little, you aren't "scr*wed for life" if you know what I mean. Don't give up hope or give up trying... Keep taking care of your body as best you can.

Smokering my math was just to show that it COULD be as simple as a tiny bit too much food each day. Obviously you can't know, down to the calorie, how many you are taking in. But if you are only a few lbs overweight, your diet might just need a tiny tweak, or maybe an extra walk around the block. That's all I'm saying. Even if you are 60 lbs overweight, it came on slowly, a little at a time, it might take time to come off. If your lifestyle is normally pretty sedentary, a walk around the block can do wonders. Little things. That's all I'm saying.

About the lady who denies what she eats. Wow. I thought she was kidding. But I guess she really is eating without thinking! Or she's in denial.... Because that is a LOT of food.

[LavenderMae]

But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.

[ILoveSweetpea]

Originally Posted by LavenderMae

But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.

Absolutely. I agree with this.

BUT

I don't want to offend anyone, and I really hope I don't. But isn't it a different ball game when you are talking about someone who weighs 400 lbs, as opposed to someone who just weights, say, 200 lbs? I mean, you get to a certain weight, and you might diet and you might exercise... but just the sheer volume of fat is extremely hard on your body. At 400#, you know they have a high % of body fat. Even if they don't have diabetes or high blood pressure (which, yes, anyone can get any any weight) our bodies weren't designed to hold and carry that much weight.

I guess I am playing devil's advocate here.

Again, I don't agree with Jane's tactics, and obviously I'm in the majority with this opinion (both here online and IRL)... BUT in Jane's defense... I think she truly is worried that her childhood friend is dying. As much as she is a drama queen, and probably enjoyed that aspect of all of this, I think she does feel desperate to help Anne. I can basically promise you that she is of the opinion that I'm not a very good friend because I don't confront her on this. She would argue that a true friend would do what is uncomfortable and difficult, rather than just standing by watching someone die.

I just think there is a big difference when talking about someone who is overweight, or even obese, versus someone who is as large as Anne. Anne is losing mobility.

I hope this makes sense. Again, I stand by the decision.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by LavenderMae

But since it's not in itself unhealthy to be overweight just keep eating healthy and getting exercise but stop buying into our society's sick obsession with thin and the myths about obesity. I think that is the major message we need to be taking away from this discussion imo.
If we stopped focusing on size then maybe we could actually focus on real health, which comes in many different sizes.

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by ILoveSweetpea

I don't want to offend anyone, and I really hope I don't. But isn't it a different ball game when you are talking about someone who weighs 400 lbs, as opposed to someone who just weights, say, 200 lbs? I mean, you get to a certain weight, and you might diet and you might exercise... but just the sheer volume of fat is extremely hard on your body. At 400#, you know they have a high % of body fat. Even if they don't have diabetes or high blood pressure (which, yes, anyone can get any any weight) our bodies weren't designed to hold and carry that much weight.
.

This!! That's what I was trying to say.

[holyhelianthus]

To me, Sweetpea, being 400lbs isn't the ideal but it also isn't a death sentence. We all are doing and know people who are doing things that compromise their health. Obviously there are some cases where an "intervention" is needed (I personally think those are very few and far between) but as I said being 400 lbs is not in and of itself a death sentence and isn't in and of itself self-destructive. I guess what I am getting at is being 400 lbs is just no indication of quality of life any more than seeing someone ingest a coke and 12 bon bons in one sitting is.

[holyhelianthus]

And BTW I am so thankful for all the reason on this thread! I was recently not very smart and commented on a similar issue posted on the HuffPo and woooooo did that not go over well! There is so much fat phobia... it just really breaks my heart.

[Purple*Lotus]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

that's actually a good idea. i can't tell you how weird it is to hear several times during a dinner about how you didn't save any bread for her when you know you haven't touched the stuff (or when she "jokes" with the waiter about how we need more bread b/c i must have been very hungry).

Wow that is fascinating. If she isn't being passive aggressive, then perhaps she has some kind of neurological problem

[rhiandmoi]

I am going to go against the trend here, and say I think it should be done. Maybe not as a party. But I think you as her friends need to say "we love you. We want you here with us for a long time. We are willing to be with you through every step of getting better." Her life is deteriorating. She is becoming isolated. She can't access parts of her home. Soon she won't be able to access parts of the world. She is becoming more and more dependent on other people every pound she gains. This is not a few pounds. I would not be surprised if there were physical or mental health issues contributing to her weight gain, but as a pp said, that is no reason to give in to the defeatist attitude of You Can't Fight Biology.

I think she will be hurt, embarrassed, mad, etc at the intervention. She might not want to talk to you for a long time. But if a friend had another problem that was causing them to become isolated from the world - mental health issue or substance abuse - I would hope that as friends you would step in. I don't see this as any different. You aren't asking her to be a size 2. You are asking her to not give up on life.

[holyhelianthus]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I am going to go against the trend here, and say I think it should be done. Maybe not as a party. But I think you as her friends need to say "we love you. We want you here with us for a long time. We are willing to be with you through every step of getting better." Her life is deteriorating. She is becoming isolated. She can't access parts of her home. Soon she won't be able to access parts of the world. She is becoming more and more dependent on other people every pound she gains. This is not a few pounds. I would not be surprised if there were physical or mental health issues contributing to her weight gain, but as a pp said, that is no reason to give in to the defeatist attitude of You Can't Fight Biology.

I think she will be hurt, embarrassed, mad, etc at the intervention. She might not want to talk to you for a long time. But if a friend had another problem that was causing them to become isolated from the world - mental health issue or substance abuse - I would hope that as friends you would step in. I don't see this as any different. You aren't asking her to be a size 2. You are asking her to not give up on life.

But are these issues really because of her weight? What if fat phobia is getting in the way of seeing the real problem?

[eclipse]

Again, the OP has said that the friend is under a doctor's care. I'm not sure what an intervention could possibly accomplish that is positive, but I see many, many negative things that can happen from something like that.

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

To me, Sweetpea, being 400lbs isn't the ideal but it also isn't a death sentence. We all are doing and know people who are doing things that compromise their health. Obviously there are some cases where an "intervention" is needed (I personally think those are very few and far between) but as I said being 400 lbs is not in and of itself a death sentence and isn't in and of itself self-destructive. I guess what I am getting at is being 400 lbs is just no indication of quality of life any more than seeing someone ingest a coke and 12 bon bons in one sitting is.

To me the issue is not the weight. It is the ever increasing isolation and dependence on other people. Her world is getting smaller and smaller. To me that is what is unacceptable about the situation. If she doesn't lose a pound, but regains her ability to go up and down stairs so that she can once again live in her whole house I think that would be more than enough.

In fact if I was participating in an intervention for an issue like this. I would emphasize that I don't want her world to shrink and shrink until she is stuck in one or two rooms. I wouldn't say anything about losing weight or eating right. Who cares about weight? I want her to be able to go upstairs.

[holyhelianthus]

I can understand that. Then I think an intervention is still a bad idea. Why not simply offer support?

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by magstphil

I can understand that. Then I think an intervention is still a bad idea. Why not simply offer support?

I don't think simply offering support is enough in a lot of cases. IME people with other isolating conditions (substance abuse, hoarding) don't get better without a "come to jesus" moment. And some people don't get them on their own until it is almost too late.

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by rhiandmoi

I don't think simply offering support is enough in a lot of cases. IME people with other isolating conditions (substance abuse, hoarding) don't get better without a "come to jesus" moment. And some people don't get them on their own until it is almost too late.

ok, off topic... but if you have A&E.. Intervention is on, back to back tonight..as well as the show "hoarders" I LOVE monday night TV!