I'm tired of negotiating - Page 2

[Barefoot~Baker]

Thanks

Thanks for your input, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one! I've been meaning to reply but we've been having a stomach bug going around our house and I still am not feeling right

I've been a bit firmer in telling them when they don't have a choice, and discussing things beforehand. It really has made things easier. Thanks again!!!

[DevaMajka]

I'm glad things are going better!

I parent better when I allow myself to "insist" on some things. I'm still considerate of his desires, though, and will consider his suggestions for a solution. Often, his solution is better than my original idea! But if his "solution" isn't actually agreeable to me at all, I have no problem insisting.
(or if I can think of another solution, I might put that out there, but only if he's genuinely interested in a mutually agreeable solution. Not if he's just stalling, or will only accept his way, etc)

Originally Posted by Mrs. Turner

Thanks.

That was one example - this happens 99% of the time when I tell them to do something - clean up, get dressed, take medicine, put the crayon on the table (that will turn into, "well I'll just put it here") and on and on.

I was going to say to this, my reply to the crayon picking up thing would be "No, put it where it belongs" or "No, put it on the table.'

[Kivgaen]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Turner

Thanks for your input, and I'm glad to know I'm not the only one! I've been meaning to reply but we've been having a stomach bug going around our house and I still am not feeling right

I've been a bit firmer in telling them when they don't have a choice, and discussing things beforehand. It really has made things easier. Thanks again!!!

I don't know if you'll come back to this thread to read more -- hopefully you will feel better soon -- but, the only thing that I would add to what others have said is to try as much as possible to LIMIT the number of requests/orders that you give them, and only ask something of them when you really mean business and when you are prepared to follow through and make sure your rule is followed.

Example: "You can stay in the kitchen if you are going to SIT there, or HELP me cook. If you don't follow instructions, then you must leave and go do something else". Then, when they don't follow the rule that you have laid out, immediately escort them out of the kitchen and say "I'm sorry you aren't following the rules. You need to find something else to do now". If you are prepared to give them another chance at following the rules, state something that they must do to prove to you that they are ready to follow the rules.

Try to limit the number of things like this (above) that absolutely MUST happen to 5 requests per DAY. (yes, you read that correctly! Only 5 a day!). Pick the 5 most important things to work on today, and start working on them as above. State the rule: (When you are dressed for school, you may sit at the table for breakfast). And follow through (don't give breakfast until they are dressed for school). If they don't get dressed for school, call in to work and say you'll be late, and drive them to the school late and make them get a late slip at the office. Make sure THEY tell the receptionist at the office why they were late for school. Or send them to school in their PJ's with a change of clothes in their backpack if they don't get dressed...

etc.

Once those 5 items that you picked are under control and they have developed a habit and you don't need to remind them every day, then move on to the next 5 things that are bothering you.

My DD and DS are the same too -- they negotiated with everything. I too have been too lenient and I need to follow my own advice with consistency. I know when I have done the above in the past, it worked beautifully. I just need to keep it up! It can be hard at times, but we can do it!

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by denimtiger

It sounds like you are open to a resonable amount of negotiation, but that your children don't know where the boundary to that is. It's okay to set a boundary when you need one, even if it's just for your own sanity.

Just because you'd be okay with their end of the bargain if they sat still in the kitchen doesn't mean you have to feel guilty for not wanting them in the kitchen at all. It's okay to request a few minutes of space and simply tell them "this is not up for negotiation, please leave." Then (nicely, but firmly) ignore all of the pleading and negotiation. All of the reasons why don't need to be explained until they accept an answer. You can just repeat "this is not up for negotiation. Go play in the living room." Become a broken record. If they don't leave, you can give a choice, "either you leave on your own by the time I count to ten and go play, or I will remove you to time out." Don't get into the arguments.

Sometimes, it's okay to be in control and get your needs met. They don't have to agree with everything or be happy about every single thing 100% of the time. They don't have to acknowledge that they understand all of the reasons. They're quite intelligent. They know why, they just don't agree.

Great post I think. I think giving them a long, drawn-out explanation for why you want them out of the kitchen (as a couple of the pp's suggested) is sort of playing into their hands. This negotiating thing is what is out of control. I don't believe it's the slightest bit harmful to tell them to go do this or that and that there will be no negotiations. You are the parent, remember that.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by amanpea

Great post I think. I think giving them a long, drawn-out explanation for why you want them out of the kitchen (as a couple of the pp's suggested) is sort of playing into their hands. This negotiating thing is what is out of control. I don't believe it's the slightest bit harmful to tell them to go do this or that and that there will be no negotiations. You are the parent, remember that.

My suggestion was five sentences, and really teh same thing could be said in three sentences. That is not long and drawn out. I do think it's bad to never negotiate with kids, because negotation is an important tool in society and they have to learn it somewhere, IMO the best place is at home. Also, "playing into their hands" is only an issue if you see your kids and yourself as being on different teams. I don't look at it that way. The kids' motivation was to be with their mother. That isn't an evil motivation worthy of working against them. They weren't able to be with her without getting in her way, and therefore couldn't be in the kitchen, but I don't think this kind of thing has to be handled with harshness or is best handled that way.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by mamazee

My suggestion was five sentences, and really teh same thing could be said in three sentences. That is not long and drawn out. I do think it's bad to never negotiate with kids, because negotation is an important tool in society and they have to learn it somewhere, IMO the best place is at home. Also, "playing into their hands" is only an issue if you see your kids and yourself as being on different teams. I don't look at it that way. The kids' motivation was to be with their mother. That isn't an evil motivation worthy of working against them. They weren't able to be with her without getting in her way, and therefore couldn't be in the kitchen, but I don't think this kind of thing has to be handled with harshness or is best handled that way.

I don't think it's bad to ever negotiate with your kids, and didn't say that. And nobody said anything about "evil" motivations lol. Why go to extremes?

But the OP mama clearly is having a problem or she wouldn't have posted about it. In this case, the kids seem to be milking the "negotiations" to stall for time and to get their own way, because they don't want to do what she's asking them to do. That's my impression anyhow, only going from what the OP has posted.

[sapphire_chan]

Originally Posted by amanpea

Great post I think. I think giving them a long, drawn-out explanation for why you want them out of the kitchen (as a couple of the pp's suggested) is sort of playing into their hands. This negotiating thing is what is out of control. I don't believe it's the slightest bit harmful to tell them to go do this or that and that there will be no negotiations. You are the parent, remember that.

And see, I think they do need the long explanation, just not at the point where they need to be out of the kitchen. "this is not up for discussion, stay out of the kitchen" later on "you guys want to be with me in the kitchen when I make dinner, but that makes it hard for me to make dinner, etc, etc..."

Which is what the OP tried and has said has helped.

[mamazee]

Originally Posted by amanpea

I don't think it's bad to ever negotiate with your kids, and didn't say that. And nobody said anything about "evil" motivations lol. Why go to extremes?

But the OP mama clearly is having a problem or she wouldn't have posted about it. In this case, the kids seem to be milking the "negotiations" to stall for time and to get their own way, because they don't want to do what she's asking them to do. That's my impression anyhow, only going from what the OP has posted.

Well as I said, they arent' really negotiating, they're just stalling, so I agree with that. But I think it helps to say just what's going on. "You said that but you didn't follow through. Now I can't trust you will actually stay sitting, so you'll have to sit somewhere else." There, two sentences that time. Anyway, not a long drawn out thing, but still an explanation helps.

[mrsfatty]

Have you tried telling your kids you need your "personal bubble space" or "time alone" for x-amount of time--but they are welcome to join you again after that time?

[heartmama]

I parent better when I allow myself to "insist" on some things. I'm still considerate of his desires, though, and will consider his suggestions for a solution. Often, his solution is better than my original idea! But if his "solution" isn't actually agreeable to me at all, I have no problem insisting.
(or if I can think of another solution, I might put that out there, but only if he's genuinely interested in a mutually agreeable solution. Not if he's just stalling, or will only accept his way, etc)

This is us exactly. I will engage in a legitimate discussion, but I have no problem "insisting" after a certain point.

For me this is an issue of respect--not in the old fashioned sense of respect because I'm an adult, but human-to-human respect. If I am cooking for you, I am doing something really nice for you. You should show respect for people who are helping you. Otherwise, they stop wanting to help you.

The good news is that your kids are big enough to feed themselves. They can fix yogurt, sandwiches, fruit, cheese, etc. by 4 years old. If this were a post about a 2 year old my response would be different. But this is part of growing up--the more you can do for yourself, the more others will expect your appreciation and cooperation when they do nice things for you. Nobody expects a baby to be grateful for being fed. But by 4 years old--yes, I would introduce this concept. Certainly, your 6 year old is plenty old enough to get it. I am not a servant. I get to decide whether I want to cook for a rude person. This is very freeing. Rather than be frustrated, be grateful--here is a chance for your kids to learn something new about mom! The only way my son can learn what I will/won't tolerate, is by showing him what I will/won't tolerate. Not by controlling him, but by controlling myself. And guess what? I won't cook for someone who is rude to me in the process. I just will not do it. I trust my child is intelligent enough to decide how important it is, after all, that I cook for him. He can choose to be rude and make his own food, or he can be polite and have mom cook him a nice meal. Guess what else? This isn't even my problem, is it? It is his problem. Again, no reason to be upset. Relax, go enjoy your own dinner, and let the kids make their own decision. In my experience, kids love finding these REAL limits. Kids love the real. Rather than being upset or feeling unloved, they get clear, real fast, with their own priorities. They get it. Really, they do. Or at least the kids I know do.

[Surfacing]

Originally Posted by Mrs. Turner

Thanks.

That was one example - this happens 99% of the time when I tell them to do something - clean up, get dressed, take medicine, put the crayon on the table (that will turn into, "well I'll just put it here") and on and on.

We totally had this here too. I would tell dd, "Look either you're going to do it, or I'm going to do it. If I do it, you won't be happy because I'll take it away for awhile." At first she would tantrum loudly but I'd stick to my guns. Over time she got it. Although she protests loudly at my firm rules, she tells me "I love you" a whole lot more. (Just a side note)

[claddaghmom]

Well I think you need to figure out if this is a natural developmental stage or if they are testing your consistency/their control.

I remember all my siblings going through this stage...they are learning that they can manipulate (and I don't mean that in a bad way) their part of the deal.

Meanwhile, I have an 11yo brother who is doing this exact same thing b/c he simply wants to get his way and he knows that if he negotiates, he buys time. And if he does it enough, he gets ignored b/c frazzled mom needs to move onto the next issue.

JMO but I'm leaning towards the latter b/c the negotiation they are giving on the surface seems to be geared to you. For example, my mom wanted my brother to help out in the kitchen. "Well, mom, I need to finish putting my library books away. You don't want them to get dirty."

Yeah right. As if an 11yo cares about that.

[One_Girl]

I sometimes try playful engaging my dd's cooperation, sometimes I tell her the exciting things we will do when the task I ask her to do is completed (not if but when though at night when can't happen after 8:00), and sometimes I do the broken record thing "I'm not asking, do it now" in a serious voice. I also think a discussion is also a good thing to have around any issue that you are having a hard time finding a solution for as a parent, I find discussions to be very helpful with my dd because she often has a lot to offer and is more willing to do what I ask her to do when she feels valued enough to be asked her opinion.