My mother and my son - problems

[akat]

So, my 5 yo is a 'difficult' child. He can alternately be completely sweet, and completely defiant.

My mom watched him 3 days a week when he was 3 and 4, and now that he's in school, he sleeps over at her house once a week, and she watches him whenever we ask her to if we need to do something. She's the only person who watches him for us, or who ever has, pretty much [our younger childless siblings step in when she's not available, rarely].

She watches him at a moment's notice, pays for and takes him to swimming lessons, does absolutely anything we need, etc.

I'm 37.5 weeks pregnant with my 2nd.

My personal relationship with her is strained.

So, as I'm trying to get to sleep around 10.30 last night, she calls and says my son is 'rejecting' her, won't hug her goodbye, she feels it's because he notices my 'coldness' toward her [true, I am pretty shut down around her - well, I could write a book for you about why], and she doesn't want to watch him anymore.

When I asked how long this has been going on, because it's pretty much the first I've heard of it, she said a year, and that it's constant. Yet she's never mentioned it and I didn't notice anything remotely like it during the holidays when we were all together. And he constantly says things throughout the week like, 'how many days til my sleepover? i can't wait!!'

I suspect that it has happened occasionally, not constantly for a year.

She *did* relent somewhat during the conversation, and I don't think she really wants to stop watching him.

I guess I'm feeling like, on the one hand, "oh my gosh, aren't you an adult, he's 5, going through a lot, and you're going to dump him just when his sibling is about to born" [not to mention dump all this on me when I'm trying to concentrate on giving birth and having a new baby, and counting on her to, not just watch my 5yo during my labor, but *take care of him*...emotionally - it's going to be really hard for him, he has cried and been distressed because he's going to be 'left out' while my husband and I are together having the new baby].

But on the other hand - I feel like, she watches him as a favor, we don't pay her, and I guess if he's being 'mean' to her we don't have any right to expect her to continue watching him. She's not his parent, she's just doing us a pure favor. Part of me feels like, what right do I have to demand she continue to watch my son, especially when my personal relationship with her *is* strained.

I'm going to call her back today now that I've had some time for more thoughts to rise to the surface about my personal 'coldness' toward her [hey, she wanted to bring it up, right?], but would love to have some things to say about her responsibility to my son.

I guess I feel like, I certainly have a responsibility to parent my children even if they are 'mean' to me - I'm the adult, I'm there to care for them...not to be cared for by them. But do I have the right to demand that she feel that way toward a grandchild.

But what right does she have to cultivate a close relationship with a little child and then dump them?

[GranoLLLy-girl]

All I can say is that she does have that right to cultivate a relationship with anyone--child or adult--and dump that person.
As much as that is unfair to your child, it's the reality of the situation. And we, as parents and adults, have to determine how we will handle these situations so that it is tolerable for our kids.

My parents and my husband's parents are VERY distant from our children. Asking my parents (who live on the other side of town) to ask my children would be unthinkable. The would NEVER do it. I would NEVER ask them to watch the kids at night, for a date night, for a doctor's appointment or anything else. Yes, we have high child care costs and I have taken the kids to doctor appointments, etc., when I was unable to find someone to hire from church or in my area.

My in-laws (who live in another state but who are very affluent) have seen our kids, who are 6 and 7) three times in their entire lives. They didn't see our son until he was 14 months old. They never even saw him as a baby. Sad, but true. And again, it's not about money. Each year, the in-laws say: hey, we'd like to come see you for X holiday and then literally every year they say, oh sorry, we found a really bargain on a cruise to X exotic location and we won't be coming. They do this literally every year. The only times we've seen them is when we make the nine hour drive to their house. And we really don't have the vacation time or money to visit more than once a year---and we really can't do it every year. So we go every other year--if we can afford it and if my dh has the vacation time. And often times they have other plans of travel or a golf event, or other people staying in their 9000 square foot waterfront home and we are not welcome.

So, yes, she has every right to do that. Is it good for your son? No. But believe me, you are blessed--even if you have relationship problems with her.
BUT, if you have really bad or unhealthy problems with her, then it's your responsibility to find other child care and not expect to use her. Granted, she's related, she's free, but unhealthy is unhealthy and you can not expect her to change in order to suit your needs.

I have learned the hard way--parents are not going to change. I have learned to expect nothing from them. And I keep my distance and protect the kids by not getting their hopes up when the in-laws say they are coming. Because they never do.

Your responsibility is to your son. Do what is best for him. And if it's not using your mom, then you need to find care that will be the best for him.
Congrats on your new baby to be!

[Addy's Mom]

Something tells me this has much more to do with you and her, than with your son. Ideally, you two could iron that out suitably.

But in the mean time, I would tell her you really appreciate her watching him for so many years. That the relationship the two of them have built is invaluable and you'd like to see it continue. And then I'd ask if she's interested in trying to fix it. If so, what can the three of you do together to make that happen?

Fostering other family relationships is difficult when yours is strained, I know. It's sort of like trying to foster a healthy relationship between father and child even if you are divorced from the father. But ultimately it's in your son's best interests to have a loving relationship with his grandmother.

[mamadelbosque]

Hi there, I totally, completely understand where your at. I think I could easily be there in a couple more years. I have issues with my mother that go back 10 years now to my parents' divorce and how I was treated by her. She moved to colorado for a couple years when I was in college and I loved my relationship with her - talked on the phone & emailed occasionaly. Then I had DS1 and she decided she wanted to be by her kids so she moved back here. She's pretty much invited herself to come down every Sunday and spend the night and annoy the living crap out of me, and do prety much whatever she wants with DS1 while she's here. She does watch him if we want to go see a movie and she's available, which is nice. DS1 loves her. But its very hard for me, because she just constantly pushes my buttons, and hen acts like she doesn't know why I'm upset with her - she's always the victim.

Anyhow, I don't have any advice, cause' I don't know how to approach my mother either. On the rare occasions when she's pushed me as to what she did, it inevitably devolves into me explaining to her what happend, and then eventually just stop talking. And she then goes and complains to my brother about how mean I am, and then I get talked to by him & my dad about being nice to mom cause' she has problems, and blah blah blah. So hugs. I understand. Mom's suck.

[A&A]

I think you want your son to have the relationship with your mother that you never really had. You're feeling your own childhood rejection. I'm sorry. It sucks. But yes, she gets to choose whether or not to watch him anymore. (And if she's not a wonderful mother/grandmother, maybe it's for the best.)

[akat]

Thanks so much for your replies.

GranoLLLy-girl, sorry you don't have any parental support - that sucks. I definitely do fully appreciate what she does for us and that we are lucky to have it.

Addy's mom, "Something tells me this has much more to do with you and her, than with your son. Ideally, you two could iron that out suitably." - yes, true.

A&A, I know what you mean, but it's more been a case of her pushing for more relationship with me and with my son than the other way around. I think by threatening to stop watching him, she's more expressing her hurt feelings and anger than really doing it - and I'd guess I'd like to defend myself against it rather than address what's underneath.

mamadelbosque, yes, yes, yes, so much of that is just exactly right on/similar, except my issues are more about my whole life than one particular period of time. And yeah, in the past when I've tried a few times to talk to her, she also plays the victim and I feel horribly guilty. And it's so hard because in a lot of ways, it's hard for me to work through the problems because my overwhelming feeling is that I just want her to go away, not heal our relationship so we can be closer! - because of the needy/victim stuff. I have 2 friend with very standoffish moms and they long for more closeness - it's the classic 'run from neediness, run toward indifference' dynamic.

-------------

BUT, I decided to call her back this morning and *gently* confront her about some issues from my childhood that have impacted me greatly my whole life, that impact my current relationship with her a lot, that I have never ever brought up with her before. I told her I wasn't telling her to blame her or yell at her about it, but just to bring it out in the open. She said she was sorry, I said I knew she was and believed she was, but that it still happened and can't be erased that easily, so I'm not going to feel guilty about not having the warmest relationship with her and things aren't going to change all of a sudden, and that I'm not just being a bitch when I'm cold to her, but that I just still have a lot of terrible emotions that get triggered around her. And she also said she was glad I told her and she feels better.

So, I actually feel pretty good about it - it went better than any other time I've tried to talk to her about our relationship. Glad I bit the bullet and called and said the stuff before I talked myself out of it.

And all I can say is I am so grateful for how sane and non-toxic my husband, and therefore my life, is now, even though our life has it's ups and downs like everyones.

[sunnmama]

Well, the timing sure does stink

But it sounds like it would be a good thing if you could be less dependent on your mother for childcare, since your relationship with her is so strained. You will be in a better spot to advocate for your ds, and negotiate the relationship, if you aren't depending on her.

Do you have a community of friends with children? We've never lived near any family members, but have built up a community of friends with whom we swap care when needed.

Personally, I'd muddle through until the new baby is a bit older--appeasing mom as necessary--and then focus on finding other support people in my community. She may appreciate time with her grandson more when her access is more limited.

[One_Girl]

I think you should fake courtesy when you are in front of your kid and not dump your childhood issues on him. She has been doing a lot more than many grandparents will do, sacrificing a lot of her time, and she deserves at least a show of courtesy from you even if your past was so horrible that you can't get over it. That doesn't mean you have to develop a close relationship with her, but it does mean you should stop the cold shoulder thing when you are in front of your child. It seems a little selfish for you to want her to watch your child while you refuse to show a speck of warmth towards her. If your relationship is so bad you can't manage a smile with a hello or goodbye, then maybe you should acknowledge that and not ask her to watch your son anymore.

I think it is possible that she did so much for you and your son because she was trying to make amends, but she has come to realize that you are not ever going to let her do that and it hurts her to see your son hating her because you do. There is only so much hurt that people can take, even mothers. I realize she hurt you in the past, but I don't think that justifies spending the rest of your life dwelling on that and using your children as pawns in your relationship war whether you do it subconsciously or consciously.

[bebebradford]

"But on the other hand - I feel like, she watches him as a favor, we don't pay her, and I guess if he's being 'mean' to her we don't have any right to expect her to continue watching him. She's not his parent, she's just doing us a pure favor. Part of me feels like, what right do I have to demand she continue to watch my son, especially when my personal relationship with her *is* strained."



This exactly... She IS doing you a favor... You two need to work on your relationship... She's not your son's mother, and is being very kind by watching him so much. My mom helps me out, but doesn't watch my kids near that much. When I was pregnant I kept my toddler all the time.. and she only watched him when I went in to give birth.

[akat]

I was kind of trying to decide whether to respond again after the last couple of posts - seems like the responses are getting kind of negative and there are some assumptions going on. That's okay, we are all coming from our own perspective, but I really don't want this thread to turn into a bash fest. I guess I admit I didn't really realize I was going to offend people.

It seems like there's some misunderstanding going on here - I'm totally courteous toward her in front of my son and am very careful not to be negative about her in front of him - she actually bashed my grandmother and dad a lot to me when I was little so I'm *extremely* careful not to do that to my son, and to always stand up for her with him and expect to treat her with love and courtesy.

And she is the one who has always pushed to see him more, not less.

And also like I said, I did call her back and gently discussed our own relationship some more.

But I guess I do really feel that she has some responsibility toward her grandchild, who she has consciously and purposefully cultivated a close relationship with, not to dump him if he's not always a picture of politeness toward her. Sometimes 5 year olds are rude or mean or defiant- I think as parents or grandparents our jobs are to help them through whatever is going on rather than just abandon them...truly surprised to see others not feeling that way?

Again, I would really be dismayed to see this turn into a bash fest when I was trying to come here for support and empathy [and I appreciate very much those that gave it]...maybe you think I deserve criticism but I guess all I can do is just ask that you refrain?

Not accusing anyone of bashing me so far, just that I'm afraid of that negative spiral starting - really don't want to wake up to 4 pages of people ripping me apart? I just hope people can give me the benefit of the doubt even if I'm not coming across or explaining myself well.

[bebebradford]

You're right.. sometimes it's hard to get a whole complete story in just a few posts. It stinks your mom isn't wanting to watch him as much.. and we cannot really see the full story. I guess the thing is.. You can't control your mom. We don't know what issues are between you and her.. OR even within her SELF. We don't know what demons she may be fighting. Maybe she feels you don't appreciate her.. even if you "fake" a smile.. people can feel tension. You say she watches him alot.. I'm sure she loves you and is trying to help you... but maybe she feels she is being taken advantage of? Or maybe that you still dislike her? I'm just throwing ideas out there..She's your mother.. and while she may do things that you wouldn't do, or things to offend you... she still loves you. If she didn't she wouldn't babysit for you so much. I know my mom adores my kids, but I would never say it was her responsibility to watch them so much. I know she WOULD if I had no other options, but I would be kissing her butt if she did.
Either way, don't worry too much. I know you are pregnant , and your hormones may be making you a bit more upset than you normally would be. Everything will work out.

[dahlialia]

akat, this may not be the same, but part of your post reminds me of my struggles with my mom.

she was supportive and helpful with my dd. which was great. and then she would start to say things...that dd was the only good thing in her life...dd was the only one who loved her unconditionally, etc. Which then developed, if dd didn't act just the right way, into: "I don't think she likes me, what have you been saying to her about me?". Um, dd was 3 at the time, loved her gma, and I wasn't saying a thing about her. And then my mom would react by not wanting to see dd.

I wasn't willing to have dd be expected to meet my mom's emotional needs. Ultimately for us, things got worse and worse, and now we do not see them at all.

[LROM]

Originally Posted by akat

I was kind of trying to decide whether to respond again after the last couple of posts - seems like the responses are getting kind of negative and there are some assumptions going on. That's okay, we are all coming from our own perspective, but I really don't want this thread to turn into a bash fest. I guess I admit I didn't really realize I was going to offend people.

It seems like there's some misunderstanding going on here - I'm totally courteous toward her in front of my son and am very careful not to be negative about her in front of him - she actually bashed my grandmother and dad a lot to me when I was little so I'm *extremely* careful not to do that to my son, and to always stand up for her with him and expect to treat her with love and courtesy.

And she is the one who has always pushed to see him more, not less.

And also like I said, I did call her back and gently discussed our own relationship some more.

But I guess I do really feel that she has some responsibility toward her grandchild, who she has consciously and purposefully cultivated a close relationship with, not to dump him if he's not always a picture of politeness toward her. Sometimes 5 year olds are rude or mean or defiant- I think as parents or grandparents our jobs are to help them through whatever is going on rather than just abandon them...truly surprised to see others not feeling that way?

Again, I would really be dismayed to see this turn into a bash fest when I was trying to come here for support and empathy [and I appreciate very much those that gave it]...maybe you think I deserve criticism but I guess all I can do is just ask that you refrain?

Not accusing anyone of bashing me so far, just that I'm afraid of that negative spiral starting - really don't want to wake up to 4 pages of people ripping me apart? I just hope people can give me the benefit of the doubt even if I'm not coming across or explaining myself well.

Actually, I think you're explaining yourself very well, but maybe weren't prepared for honest opinions. I think that happens a lot on this board, or at least I've seen it several times in the time I've been here: people post a question or ask for feedback/ideas, but then don't want to hear the ideas that basically say "You may have a significant role to play in why this is a bad situation". But that's not the same as bashing, even though the person on the receiving end can feel "bashed" if a lot of people have strong opinions about the situation.

I guess I'm really just writing this to point out that you can ask responders to limit comments to only a particular type of feedback (empathetic, etc), but it is an internet message board and when we post a situation, most people are going to tell us their honest opinions of it, but with good intentions, not with the intention of being mean. I give honest feedback all the time, but with the hope it'll behelpful, not to rip anyone down.

Maybe consider the posts that feel "unsupportive" to you as maybe holding some clues to how your mom might feel about the situation? That's the beauty of having so many different people posting here - you get tons of perspectives and maybe some ideas will help you see a better solution.

Best of luck, hope you and your mom actually benefit from this (andyour son and new baby) and working through it.