NAP (Nursing at the Pool), Anyone?

[brittladd]

This is my first time posting. However, I had such a terrible BF experience this afternoon that I feel compelled to share and receive feedback. While spending time with my husband and 2 children at the local swimming pool today, I took a few moments to nurse my daughter. I found a discrete area and nursed her on the steps of the pool where she and I would be most comfortable. Suddenly and unexpectedly I was harassed by the lifeguard when he approached us to say very rudely. "Are you actually breastfeeding the kid in the pool?". My husband quickly came to my defense to say that yes, and in Colorado it is a legally protected activity, and to ask why there was a problem. The lifeguard went on to say (rather loudly, much to my humiliation) that it wasn't sanitary and that food and drink weren't allowed in the pool. At that point I was so furious, embarassed and taken aback that I quickly exited the pool with my children, dressed and went home. I am debating how to handle this matter further and would appreciate any advice. I know my rights in the state of Colorado, but wonder whether I somehow crossed the line into a gray area. I am a strong defender of women's (and children's) rights to nurse openly and publicly.

[tanyam926]

I'm sorry you had such a horrible experience. I am pretty sure that the nursing law covers BF at or in the pool, however I am not sure if it would fall under the no food or drink policy.

It's a toughie bc breastmilk is a food, but also a bodily fluid. (I think for legal purposes it is considered a food, but don't quote me on that). Even if your baby weren't nursing, your breastmilk could leak out of your breasts while you are swimming and mix w/the pool water, just like all the other bodily fluids in public pools. Then all the chlorine would kill anything that they were concerned about.

I have breastfeed at and in a couple of different public pools w/out any problem but I would feel more comfortable if I was sure what my rights were and exactly what they did and did not include.

I hope there are other moms here who have a clearer idea on this issue.

BTW, welcome to MDC!

[Artichokie]

recently i've seen several references to breast milk being a bodily fluid. From the POV of the CDC, this is an incorrect statement. http://www.cdc.gov/breastfeeding/faq/index.htm

[theboysmama]

I think that you were treated very poory and that is unacceptable. If the law doesn't cover you in the pool the life guard should have politely informed you that due to health blah blah blah they need you to please step out of the pool, would you like a chair, etc. etc. I think you should call and speak with a manager regarding the situation, make sure that you state your right to nurse AT the public pool (if the law in your state covers it) and address the very innapropriate way that their employ handled it.

Last summer I was swimming at the public pool during open swim with my dh and our 4 kids. I had the baby in a waterproof sling and she was nursing while I dealt with my other children. My dh said something like is she still nursing (very loud, just cuz he is loud. lol). a few min. later the head life guard came to the side of the pool and said excuse me mam and waved me over. I cam over to the side and she asked if I was nursing the baby. I said yes and she said oh I am sorry but due to health regulations you can't nurs IN the pool, you can nurse anywhere in the facility that you would like except the pool. you can sit on the side w/out your feet in so you can be close to your kids, would you like a chair? I didn't even question whether it was the rule or against the actual law, it seemed like a reasonable request, it was done very appropriately and she gave me another reasonable alternative.

Again I am so sorry you had this horrible experience and definately feel that it should be addressed. Bad Bad customer service so to speak.

[MiaMama]

I am verry sorry the lifeguard was so rude.

I am an avid NIP advocate for many reasons. However, I also do not think it is appropriate to nurse in the pool. Not because of bodily fluids, but because of the food and drink rule. If someone tried to bottle-feed in the pool, they would also be asked (hopefully nicely) to stop.

At the pool I worked at, food and drinks were not allowed anywhere in the pool vicinity. There is a quality measure called TDS (total dissolved solids) that really can affect pool quality including effectiveness of chlorine and PH. Filters do not remove these dissolved solids because the particles are too fine, and the only way to remove them is to periodically drain and re-fill the pool, which is usually done once a year (or over the winter season for unheated outdoor pools). When people complain that the chlorine is bothering them, it is usually actually the dissolved solids in the pool that are causing the problem. TDS is why people are supposed to shower before they get in the pool, to rinse off deodorant, lotion, makeup, and other substances so they don't get in the pool. It is also why they are not supposed to eat or drink in/near the pool.

Lifeguards often don't know the details about why the rules are in place, as they rarely are the ones who have to balance the pools, which is a bigger job than most people realize. It is not a sanitary issue, it is about other quality measures.

Again, I am very sorry that the lifeguard was so rude. If I was the manager, I would reprimand them for acting so poorly, however, I would also ask you to please not nurse in the pool.

[ramama]

The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment's REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO SWIMMING POOLS AND MINERAL BATHS 5 CCR 1003-5 contains NOTHING prohibiting food or drink in a swimming pool. If these "health regulations" are real (doubt it) then the staff at the pool needs to produce the regulation or statute number so that you can look it up. Seems to me that the "no food or drink" rule is much the same as the non-existent "rule" about shirt and shoes.

OP, I am in Colorado and am interested to know where this happened. If you don't want to post publicly here, please PM me. I am in Colorado Springs.

A similar thread turned into a heated debate about whether BM is food, if nursing is "eating," if formula feeding is permitted in pools, if sitting on the steps is actually IN the pool, etc. I see this as a LEGAL issue alone, not a preference issue, or a "what would I have done" issue. The lifeguard cited a health regulation as the sole purpose for prohibiting BFing in a pool. Such statute or regulation needs to be produced, if it does exist.

[proudmomof4]

This thread was about nursing in / at the pool as well. Maybe you'll find it helpful.

http://www.mothering.com/discussions....php?t=1116217

[MiaMama]

Originally Posted by ramama

The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment's REGULATIONS PERTAINING TO SWIMMING POOLS AND MINERAL BATHS 5 CCR 1003-5 contains NOTHING prohibiting food or drink in a swimming pool. If these "health regulations" are real (doubt it) then the staff at the pool needs to produce the regulation or statute number so that you can look it up. Seems to me that the "no food or drink" rule is much the same as the non-existent "rule" about shirt and shoes.

It is not a health regulation, at least not in the state I worked in. It is a pool rule. The lifeguard was mistaken. Some pools do allow food and drink in/near the pools, but it makes them much harder to maintain. However, the fact that it is a pool rule, not a state regulation does not automatically make it invalid, does it? It is also not a law that people can't dive into water shallower than 9ft, but that was the rule at the pool I managed, and we expected the lifeguards to enforce it.

The thread that was linked to, and in this thread, the mother was not told that she should not nurse AT the pool. Just not IN the pool. It is not a "go hide, that is gross/abnormal..." issue. Granted, they were both told rudely, and that is wrong, but I don't understand why its not a valid request if done nicely.

I know from personal experience that lifeguards put up with a LOT of guff from everyone for everything. I have been screamed at for asking a woman to put a bikini top on her 10 yr old "but she doesn't have anything up there anyway," for asking a woman not to apply makeup in the pool, for reminding a man that it is the rule that he has to be IN the water with his 2 yr old... and so on. Everyone insists that they deserve special consideration, and they often say "I saw someone else doing it." If you are allowed to nurse in the pool, the next lady will insist she can bottlefeed because she saw someone nursing. If the guard does NOT ask you to move, they will likely be yelled at by their boss for failing to enforce the pool rules. I have seen guards fired for refusing to enforce the rules.

If the mothers were told that they could not nurse AT ALL, or that they needed to cover up, I would be pissed, and it would be discrimination. However, that does not seem to be the case here, or in the other thread.

I am not trying to minimize the OP's discomfort. It sucks that she was treated so poorly. That was uncalled for.

[mysticmomma]

as long as the rule doesn't contradict someones rights otherwise protected by law, such as breastfeeding.

[MiaMama]

But they were not told they were not allowed to breastfeed at the pool.

[ramama]

Originally Posted by MiaMama

But they were not told they were not allowed to breastfeed at the pool.

Yes, she was. After asking if she were BFing, the lifeguard said that food and drink are prohibited in the pool.

[MamaMelis]

I completely agree with MiaMama.

I am also an avid advocate and breast feed my baby where and when my baby is hungry ~ Just like I feed my other older children when they are hungry......

But just like I would take my hungry older children out of the pool to provide them with food, I would take my baby out of the pool to nurse them. For several reasons ~ one of which is that I find the rule about food/drink IN the pool reasonable and fair. I do consider breast milk food. I also (quite honestly) would not be thrilled with the idea of my baby possibly ingesting chlorine along with breast milk, and as such I would consider it kinder to my baby to move into the shade by the side of the pool to nurse them.

I am sorry, however that the lifeguard was rude to you.

I don't believe that breast feeding laws trump other laws ~ In other words, if a mother was driving her car while breast feeding, the fact that breast feeding is a legally protected right would not trump the fact that she would get in trouble for not having a legally safely carseated child, if that makes sense. That isn't an attack on breast feeding, you know? As long as you are still allowed to breast feed wherever you like outside of the pool, this would seem fair and reasonable to me.

[Deir]

I think this a silly argument. it is impossible to literally bf IN the pool. The baby would drown. Sitting on the steps and nursing is just FINE. I will have a 3 month old this pool season and I am sure I will be sitting on the side of the pool nursing with my feet in the water. i also don't see why someone can't sit on the side or steps and bottlefeed a baby.

[khaoskat]

AS a former lifeguard, I will say that people sitting on the steps or ladders obstructing others ability to quickly exit and enter the pool is an issue as well, an issue of safety. A person sitting on the steps or on a ladder is blocking a means of getting in or out of the water. Most pools I have ever worked in have limited number of ladders. The were approximately 6 ladders in an Olympic size pool. One set one on each side of the pool at the shallow end; another set one on each side around the 4 foot mark - about 1/3 of the way down the length of the pool; and a set one on each side in the deep end. The steps and ladders were not put in the pool for people to sit on and rest, they were put there to get in and out of the pool.

As for actually being in the pool walking around and nursing a child, again I think that would potentially be a safety issue as well. People, especially young children) are constantly splashing and you run the risk of getting your nursing child's face wet and some of that water getting snorted upon the nose causing him/her to choke. Also consider the possibility that you could loose your grip or your child roll out of your arms (I have had this happen, not while nursing, but while riding a lazy river and my child was in a life jacket properly fit for her). It would make it very hard, with a lot of people moving and splashing about in a pool for you to quickly regain your child. So, again a safety issue.

I don't think it would be a huge deal to sit back a bit from the edge and dangle your feet in, to the point where your child wouldn't be close to the edge, but you could still feel the water and enjoy it.

Again, you have to think safety issues and see more than just it is against nursing mothers. I could, after having been a lifeguard and been a certified water safety and lifeguard instructor several serious safety concerns. One of the biggest is if baby should somehow fall out of mother's arms while wandering around in the pool; additionally the blocking of an entrance/exit from the pool is a safety concern.

[MiaMama]

Originally Posted by MamaMelis

That isn't an attack on breast feeding, you know? As long as you are still allowed to breast feed wherever you like outside of the pool, this would seem fair and reasonable to me.

This is exactly my point. I think there are soo, sooo, sooooo many cases where people are mistreated for breastfeeding, and that absolutely needs to stop. I just don't see this particular issue as a breastfeeding issue. I am not trying to offend or diminish the cause, I NIP'ed blatantly, non-discreetly, proudly, and all over. But not in the pool.

[MiaMama]

Originally Posted by Deir

I also don't see why someone can't sit on the side or steps and bottlefeed a baby.

This is ABSOLUTELY against the rules (at any pool where food and drink is prohibited), no doubt. If I asked you to stop bottlefeeding while sitting on the steps of the pool, and you refused, I could easily throw you out of the facility for refusing to follow the rules. And I would be well within my rights to do so. I have had to remove belligerent patrons for refusing to follow the rules before. It is no fun. In fact, the fact that I could throw you out (with police support if necessary) for refusing to stop bottlefeeding is why I don't think this is a breastfeeding issue. It is equally inappropriate to bottlefeed.

[AXEius]

milk could come out her breast while she was swimming about. So this means that woman with lactating breasts are not aloud in swimming pools?!?!?

Originally Posted by MiaMama

This is ABSOLUTELY against the rules (at any pool where food and drink is prohibited), no doubt. If I asked you to stop bottlefeeding while sitting on the steps of the pool, and you refused, I could easily throw you out of the facility for refusing to follow the rules. And I would be well within my rights to do so. I have had to remove belligerent patrons for refusing to follow the rules before. It is no fun. In fact, the fact that I could throw you out (with police support if necessary) for refusing to stop bottlefeeding is why I don't think this is a breastfeeding issue. It is equally inappropriate to bottlefeed.

[brittladd]

Thank You!

Thank you, everyone, for taking a moment to reply. All of the input has been hugely helpful to me as I process what occurred. I appreciate seeing the situation from many different points of view, especially those who have worked at pools and seem to understand the regulations and safety concerns. However I do believe it to be a breastfeeding issue as far as raising awareness about the situation so as to ensure other women don't face the same problem in the future and to avoid such a faux pas, and any potential conflict/embarrassment, at the pool. Thank you, again.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by MiaMama

It is not a health regulation, at least not in the state I worked in. It is a pool rule. The lifeguard was mistaken. Some pools do allow food and drink in/near the pools, but it makes them much harder to maintain. However, the fact that it is a pool rule, not a state regulation does not automatically make it invalid, does it? It is also not a law that people can't dive into water shallower than 9ft, but that was the rule at the pool I managed, and we expected the lifeguards to enforce it.

Pool rules that are in violation of the law cannot be enforced; it is not against the law to prohibit diving into water shallower than 9ft, but it may be against the law to force a bfing mother to leave a particular area.

[khaoskat]

Originally Posted by MiaMama

This is ABSOLUTELY against the rules (at any pool where food and drink is prohibited), no doubt. If I asked you to stop bottlefeeding while sitting on the steps of the pool, and you refused, I could easily throw you out of the facility for refusing to follow the rules. And I would be well within my rights to do so. I have had to remove belligerent patrons for refusing to follow the rules before. It is no fun. In fact, the fact that I could throw you out (with police support if necessary) for refusing to stop bottlefeeding is why I don't think this is a breastfeeding issue. It is equally inappropriate to bottlefeed.

You know, I have worked at multitudes of pools (local parks and rec pools, YMCA, and even at Oceans of Fun in lots of different areas).

The main reason a bottle fed infant would be an issue is that the bottle could fall out of the baby's mouth/mothers hands into the pool. Newer bottles wouldn't be as much of an issue because they generally are not breakable and are made of plastic, the main concern is with the breaking of the glass or plastic. Hence it is a safety issue. You don't want to have to deal with broken glass in or around a pool area. Plastic bottles are not as much of an issue, because they are much harder to break.

Most of the places I life guarded, I kept a plastic bottle/cup of water or even OJ on my stand. In hot days we would be up on stand for up to 45 minutes at a time, and it was the only means of staying hydrated to keep the water with you.

I don't think I have ever had to kick a patron out of the pool, except for getting into a physical fist fight and injuring another patron in all my years.

Yes, the way the lifeguard handled the situation is what was inappropriate. Had the lifeguard been more discreet in letting you know it was a safety issue with nursing while IN the POOL, it would be different. The lifeguard is looking out not just for your safety and your child's safety, but also the safety of all the patrons in the pool.

And someone should NEVER block a set of stairs in a pool. In case of an emergency you make it very difficult to get people out of the water quickly. Even at Oceans of Fun, where we had some step areas, we wouldn't even let kids linger getting in/out of the pool on those steps. We wouldn't let parents stand there waiting for their kids to go down the slide to catch them...why SAFETY. It was my way to get into the pool if a kid got hurt on the slide (as the station was a standing one on the ground), and it made it difficult for people to get in or out of the water around you. Also, you blocked my ability to see the entire area I am responsible for.