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Do you consider it a UC if...

post #1 of 31
Thread Starter 
Do you consider it a UC if a doula is present? What about a doula who is MW certified, but is not practicing midwifery during your birth? What if you hire a MW "just in case," but only want her there in case you decide you need assistance and you don't allow her in the room? If you have the MW sit in the living room and just be there to wait until you are finished, is it still a UC?

Just wondering how others feel about it.
post #2 of 31
Not that it matters, but I go by the definition.

So, I could have a dozen OBs and MWs standing there watching and no one assisting and consider it an unassisted birth. Though, I have a hard time believing that they could just stand there without trying to assist in some way.
post #3 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty View Post
Not that it matters, but I go by the definition.

So, I could have a dozen OBs and MWs standing there watching and no one assisting and consider it an unassisted birth. Though, I have a hard time believing that they could just stand there without trying to assist in some way.
I feel the same way, but what about a doula? By definition, a doula *is* assisting in the birth, though not in a medical way. I suppose it would be the same way many fathers/mothers assist their partners while in labor and that makes me wonder what most UCers consider "unassisted." Does moral assistance count? If the father/other mother is helping the mother to give birth, is it still unassisted?

Does "unassisted" ONLY mean "medical assistance?"
post #4 of 31
I have never used a doula, so I guess I have no practical knowledge to base an opinion on whether or not they "assist" with the birth. However, my DH does assist me (checking me when I want, catching the baby, etc) and I consider it a UC.
post #5 of 31
a UC is just a birth without the medical assistance of trained professionals (MW, OB, etc). Doulas aren't medically trained personnel. My dh "assisted" my UC (massaged me, did one check, caught the baby), but he is not medically trained. Birthing alone in the forest or mountains certainly isn't the only way to UC. UC doesn't only mean birthing alone.
post #6 of 31
not that it matters, but i consider having a medical-type person in the home there to assist in the birth in a medical-type way to be an attended birth.

having anyone there, whether medical-type trained or not, to be emotional or other support (not to be there to medically assist the birth), is an unassisted birth.

to me, a MW or doctor as back up, only going to them or calling them if necessary is a UC with back up. having a MW in the next room just in case is, IMO and IMO only, having a MW assisted HB. the reason for this is how i see the mind. having someone "on call" is having the intention and holding the idea that they are there for an emergency. having someone in the next room is wanting their attendance, no matter how hands off (even completely) they are. they are there as medical person to give medical help, and you have them there for that reason.

it doesnt' make it a "lesser" birth, and if someone else wants to consider that a UC, then that's fine. i just don't.
post #7 of 31
I think the only definition that matters is your own. Many people would consider my pain med free hospital birth to be a natural birth but I can't say it was natural. I was interfered with which isn't natural in my books. But that is how I feel about my birth.

What would be the difference between unhindered and unassisted. I have heard both used. Perhaps an unhindered is a better discription for a birth with attendents that are in another room? I haven't really thought about it.
post #8 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyBoysBlue View Post
I think the only definition that matters is your own. Many people would consider my pain med free hospital birth to be a natural birth but I can't say it was natural. I was interfered with which isn't natural in my books. But that is how I feel about my birth.

What would be the difference between unhindered and unassisted. I have heard both used. Perhaps an unhindered is a better discription for a birth with attendents that are in another room? I haven't really thought about it.
Oooh! I like the term you used: "unhindered birth"
post #9 of 31
I don't understand the importance of labeling a birth as "Unassisted" or not?
post #10 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizzy View Post
I don't understand the importance of labeling a birth as "Unassisted" or not?
If you are writing a book about it, it's VERY important to know what other mothers think
post #11 of 31
Instead of insisting upon the label "unassisted" why not go for something with a broader spectrum like "Independent"? Then you aren't specifying that the reader has to have no one with her (not even her dentist husband for example) because otherwise it wouldn't be classified as an unassisted birth. Just throwing that out there

It could also take care of some of the legal issues with giving medical advice because you aren't specifying that the mother has to be completely alone, just completely in control of the situation and the decisions. If that makes any sense!
post #12 of 31
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tizzy View Post
Instead of insisting upon the label "unassisted" why not go for something with a broader spectrum like "Independent"? Then you aren't specifying that the reader has to have no one with her (not even her dentist husband for example) because otherwise it wouldn't be classified as an unassisted birth. Just throwing that out there

It could also take care of some of the legal issues with giving medical advice because you aren't specifying that the mother has to be completely alone, just completely in control of the situation and the decisions. If that makes any sense!
Oh, I LOVE it! What wonderful insight you have!
post #13 of 31
i agree, though, that the term should be defined--though you could easily assert that it runs a spectrum from those who birth completely solo to those who birth with a hands-off midwife present in their homes.

i think that thinking about terms like unhindered are great for talking about the spectrum of assisted births, in addition to unassisted. though, admittedly, many unassisted end up hindered because someone calls an ambulance or whatever.

i think that, for the book, you should pick the definition that makes the most sense to you--define it as you see it--and then express that this isn't a "hard and fast" definition, as others may consider this or that unassisted as well, where as you might call it unhindered or independent or what have you.
post #14 of 31
If I were talking to someone who is fairly familiar with birth culture (in the US) and I said that I have had unassisted births, they would take that to mean that I did not have a medical attendant present in any capacity. In popular usage that's simply what it has comes to mean. If people generally thought it could mean a wide spectrum of things, it wouldn't really be useful for me to bother using the term, would it? But they don't, so I think it's most reasonable for people to use the term according to that definition. That's why I don't agree that anyone ought to define it anyway they want to. It's not practical, so I don't see the point.

So to answer your question, I wouldn't label that kind of birth (described in the OP) anything because a label doesn't yet exist for it. I'd just describe it. Cumbersome, but imo necessary for the sake of communication. The funny thing is that I do that anyway -- even though my births do fall under the generally accepted definition for "unassisted", I don't use that term myself because I don't care for it. I say instead, "I gave birth at home without a medical professional present and with only my husband in attendance." I might go on to say, "it was fully autonomous in the sense that no one managed or guided it, it was instinctive and primal." Then someone will say, "Oh, it was unassisted" and I'll say "yeah".

To describe a different scenario, I might say, "I had a physically unassisted birth with the midwife sitting in the corner observing." (And in fact, I did have a birth like that, and I generally refer to it as a "midwife-attended homebirth".) To just call it "unassisted" would be misleading, given popular usage of that term.
post #15 of 31
Can I hop in and play devil's advocate?

DH and I are planning on a midwife attended birth, but the idea is that she will wait outside unless we need her. BUT, there is a very real possibility that she won't even make it in time, because she's over 2 hours away and my last labor was very fast. So, our plan B is that it'll just be us and the doula and my sister. I would consider our plan B to be unassisted, because of no mw in attendance.

BUT, my DH is an MD. He's not an OB, but every MD does an OB rotation, so he's delivered a number of babies. He's "technically" trained to do that. Would we still get to count that as a u/a?
post #16 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by zoebird View Post
not that it matters, but i consider having a medical-type person in the home there to assist in the birth in a medical-type way to be an attended birth.

having anyone there, whether medical-type trained or not, to be emotional or other support (not to be there to medically assist the birth), is an unassisted birth.

to me, a MW or doctor as back up, only going to them or calling them if necessary is a UC with back up. having a MW in the next room just in case is, IMO and IMO only, having a MW assisted HB. the reason for this is how i see the mind. having someone "on call" is having the intention and holding the idea that they are there for an emergency. having someone in the next room is wanting their attendance, no matter how hands off (even completely) they are. they are there as medical person to give medical help, and you have them there for that reason.

it doesnt' make it a "lesser" birth, and if someone else wants to consider that a UC, then that's fine. i just don't.
: Exactly that.
post #17 of 31
You can make it your own.

My first "unassisted" birth I had 2 friends with us "helping" in a way. Both unpaid. One was a midwife assistant, and the other was doula trained but my best friend at the time too and had 2 UC's herself.

My Dh did 99.9% of the handling of the birth until the MWA stepped in because she thought she saw something, but for the most part DH assisted me. My BF helped me breath through contractions and helped me learn how to vocalize properly and how to work with my body as this was my first birth without medical assistance and drugs.

I call it a UC, but it was more like a semi-UC. I don't care what people call it. It doesn't matter. Baby is here and I did it without medical intervention. I gave birth. That's all I need to know, LOL.
post #18 of 31
UC for me means without the presence of a medical professional. If they are in the room, or down the hall, this type of birth would be considered assisted to me. Now a mw on call would be considered back up. I don't think a doula qualifies because they are not trained (most of the time) to handle emergencies. It's more like a friend offering comfort. But if they are training to become a mw then I think that blurs the lines. They aren't fully trained, so still cannot act in the licensed capacity. As far as spouses it is still a UC to me, because they are acting as a support person, they just have more knowledge than most.
Just my opinion.
post #19 of 31
It's what you make of it, but you also have to be able to communicate. The whole point of language is having an agreed-upon definition for certain sound-symbols. So when I say "boat", you don't think I mean that green stuff growing in my yard. PP had it right that the general agreed-upon meaning of "unassisted" in U.S. colloquial English is "unattended".

That said...I refer to my last birth as an "attended unassisted" birth, because the midwives were there, but they did nothing. They were ordered to do nothing unless called upon, in fact. My whole "birth plan" was "LEAVE ME ALONE", because I knew the midwife completely screwed up my second birth that ended in c/s. They did great, sat on the porch swing knitting the whole time. One of the midwives also refers to that birth as "unassisted".
post #20 of 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Equuskia View Post
a UC is just a birth without the medical assistance of trained professionals (MW, OB, etc).
SO technically my DH and I have spoken in length about UCing...he is a paramedic and I am a ER RN...since we are both trained "professionals" is in not a UC...lol

Alicia
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