daycare put DS in time out. - Page 2

[cagnew]

I agree with bebebradford.

I never come on this thread, but decided to check it out this morning. I had no idea that time-out's were considered a bad thing. I thought they were the discipline method of choice for people who don't believe in spanking. I'm kind of shocked. I have no problem with time-outs myself, but I also have no problem with other things that are quite obviously frowned upon here.

That being said, I always figured that one of the things about daycare is that you put your kid there and, by doing so, leave them to the people in charge. If they use time-outs, then you "subject" your kid to that. It's unreasonable to think that they could change their policies on a per-child basis. I understand that the teacher said she wouldn't do it, but she tried it your way first and it didn't work. I think you should respect her as an adult who takes care of children. She made a decision and went with it. She did what she thought was right. And, remember, its only a time-out... she didn't hit your child or abuse him or something like that. In fact, that is probably why she didn't mention it when it happened... she probably didn't think, like most parents, that time-outs were that big of a deal. The child is a 2 year old... 2 year olds get in trouble and corrected. Personally, I think it does a 2 yr old an injustice to "reason" with him, but I digress.

I think maybe you should try to see things from the teachers point of view before you make her sound like a monster. Try to keep things in perspective. If it really bothers you that much, pull your kid out and put him somewhere else. If you can't find somewhere else, then you'll have to deal with the policies of the place you leave him in.

I know this won't be a popular answer, but MDC encourages different points of view, so I thought I would throw my 2 cents in.

[phathui5]

Originally Posted by moondiapers

It's important to find a school with a discipline policy you agree with....because they can't have different rules and consequences for each child, they HAVE to treat everyone the same.

I'm going to have to agree. I had a home childcare for three years and used time-out as a discipline tool. If a parent didn't want their child in time-out, they would need to find another provider. In a group setting, it wouldn't have worked for me to have one kid for whom the rules were different.

I find in incredibly difficult to find a non-mainstream daycare in this area (Central PA). Unfortunately, I need to work so daycare is essential.

Have you tried asking around in the PA tribal forum?

[AmyKT]

I agree with the others who say that in a group setting, teachers sometimes have to do things we wouldn't like to do at home. They can't have a long one-on-one discussions with every child over every infraction. My child is going to find herself in a lot of settings and under a lot of different people's rules. It's a part of living in the world. As long as she is not being hit or belittled, I don't mind her having to deal with her teachers' rules and ways of doing things.

[averlee]

I also worked as a preschool teacher and day care provider. I found that day care centers simply do not fit the needs of many families. Most children do not thrive in large groups of their peers. And most day care teachers are not interested in parenting your child the way you do at home. After two semesters of community college, getting paid $8 per hour, probably no sick leave, vacation or even health insurance, do you really expect a 19 yr old kid to ask, document, and carry out the wishes of every parent for their kids' discipline? I didn't even know most of the parents' names.
What I never understood, was why pay all this $$$ (tuition was $700-$1200 per month) to put your kid at a center? Hiring an individual care provider is cheaper, and much much better in situations like this- because they work for you, they are obligated to follow your instructions.

[lach]

Originally Posted by cagnew

I never come on this thread, but decided to check it out this morning. I had no idea that time-out's were considered a bad thing. I thought they were the discipline method of choice for people who don't believe in spanking. I'm kind of shocked. I have no problem with time-outs myself, but I also have no problem with other things that are quite obviously frowned upon here.

Ditto. You learn something new every day. I'm kind of shocked that people think that reasoning with a 2 year old is an effective way to handle a situation. I mean, that's just a biological impossibility. They're primed to be people pleasers, so 9 out of 10 times they'll follow your tone of voice and do what you want them to, but that doesn't mean that they're thinking logically or have any understanding of the larger situation.

When a 2 year old is melting down in a group situation, removing until he can be calmed seems like the totally logical response to me. If one kid is melting down, it will upset all the other kids and then you'll have chaos on your hands. Usually a tantrum, IME, is just about overstimulation of one sort or another, and removing from the situation to calm down is the only way to fix the situation.

And 1:6 is the mandated ratio in my state. I think that's a pretty normal ratio. I also wouldn't expect the teacher at my daughter's preschool to tell me every time she has a meltdown. If it gets to be a problem, sure: but all 2 year olds have meltdowns every once and a while, and it's not a big deal. Part of me sending her to preschool is ceding control for that period of time.

[akwifeandmomma]

Originally Posted by phathui5

I'm going to have to agree. I had a home childcare for three years and used time-out as a discipline tool. If a parent didn't want their child in time-out, they would need to find another provider. In a group setting, it wouldn't have worked for me to have one kid for whom the rules were different.

Agreed. I think you'll be hard-pressed to find a daycare (home or center) where time-out of some kind isn't ever used to deal with poor behavior. I run a very small in-home daycare and while I rarely use time-outs, I have and will when necessary.

She tried to reason with him, and when he refused, she did what she needed to do to remove him from the situation and address his misbehavior. When she asked what you would have done given the circumstances, you said yourself that the answer you gave was insufficient and you don't have a plan.

As far as the poster who said

Hiring an individual care provider is cheaper, and much much better in situations like this- because they work for you, they are obligated to follow your instructions.

I may be "hired" by a parent, but they agree to my rules and discipline methods beforehand. If I was asked not to use a method I find appropriate and useful, I wouldn't accept the child into my care -- it goes both ways. I would not agree to a different set of rules or discipline methods for each child.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by akwifeandmomma

I may be "hired" by a parent, but they agree to my rules and discipline methods beforehand. If I was asked not to use a method I find appropriate and useful, I wouldn't accept the child into my care -- it goes both ways. I would not agree to a different set of rules or discipline methods for each child.

I think that poster meant more along the lines of a nanny. I do think of our nanny as someone who "works for us" and needs to follow our policies, while I don't view large, group daycare in exactly the same way (which is why I haven't used it).

It does seem the teacher tried to reason with him. You're saying it makes no sense to show that the other child is sad, but many mamas at MDC do just that. And you didn't give her any guidance. You said you try to reason with him but don't do time-outs. Well, her reasoning was explaining that the other child was sad. That works with what you said. It didn't work. He melted down. You told her you don't have other options. What should she have done?

What are time-outs in this daycare anyway? It doesn't necessarily means she sent him to a corner by himself. "Time-out" covers a whole range of disciplinary strategies, so it's highly likely that she did remove him from the corner where he was having a tantrum and take him to another room or area for a few minutes. It doesn't mean she was mean and cold, just that he needed to be removed. Besides, it sounds to me as if she explained what happened and asked what you would've done.

You don't have an answer for her. I get that because gentle discipline is often so much more flexible than other forms of discipline. There's no "do this, and X happens." At the same time, it's difficult to convince someone of your methodology when you cannot explain it.

[betsyj]

Hiring an individual care provider is cheaper

On what planet is this?? Here in Cleveland the cheapest rate I found was $10.00/hr and I was less then thrilled. That would come to $400/wk or $1600/mo.

And most nannies I checked out wanted from 12-18$/hr. That is fine but out of my range of affordability.

My excellent daycare is anywhere from $770-$821 depending on the number of days.

[JL83]

Originally Posted by BrandiRhoades

I think that poster meant more along the lines of a nanny. I do think of our nanny as someone who "works for us" and needs to follow our policies, while I don't view large, group daycare in exactly the same way (which is why I haven't used it).

My sister tried the insane restrictions on her nannies and babysitters. I'm pretty sure that's why she couldn't keep one for more than 1 to 2 weeks with her children. She couldn't figure out why they kept quitting even though she took away all their tools and her children were ridiculously badly behaved.

[Anastasiya]

Originally Posted by jessa810

I think my biggest concerns are that (1) I told her that I didn't do time outs at home and she said she wouldn't do it at daycare either,

And she didn't until she probably realized she had no other options.

and (2) although I obviously wasn't there, I agree that taking a toy does not warrant the most severe punishment that the daycare uses.

The punishment wasn't the result of taking the toy. The punishment resulted from his defiant behavior towards the teacher.

She said she counted to three and tried to "show" him that the other child was sad that DS took the toy and then when he became "defiant" she put him in time out. First of all, I highly doubt he was able to "see" that the other child was upset if he was that upset as well.

Yet she reasoned with him, just as you told her to do. She can't win, can she?

Also, I am curious as to how exactly she got him out of that corner. I am assuming she grabbed him and got him out - I doubt any amount of coaxing would have worked.

Why would you assume the worst - that she grabbed him? Why couldn't she have just gently picked him up and carried him away? But grabbing? That's a huge negative assumption on your part.