Sleep in our house is so messed up...

[Curlyfry7]

I barely even know where to start.

Neither of my kids sleep well or much. DS is 3, DD is 1. The problems are different for each of them.

With DS, we did not start out co-sleeping. He didn't STTN until 2 1/2, now does most of the time. The problem however is getting him to GO to sleep. Routines never worked with him. EVERY time it's bedtime, we have screaming fits from him. I started co-sleeping with him a couple months before he turned 3 as he was having some fear issues and DH was out of the loop with a job, and it was basically the only way I could get him to go to sleep at all. We go to bed at the same time-it's the only way he'll go, and even then it's with screaming and crying. Just leaving him to choose his own bedtime isn't working- he can (and HAS) stayed up until 1-2am. He is a complete grouch all the time-whether it's from being tired or just his personality, I can't tell. He still takes a nap most days as he is so tired from his lack of sleep he can't make it until bedtime. If he skips his nap though, he still will FIGHT going to sleep until 9-10pm. He generally wakes up about 7:30, and lately he's not going to bed until 11, so that's only 8 1/2 hours. If he was pleasant then maybe I could think he just needed less sleep, but he is absolutely NOT pleasant.

DD does not currently seem to hate sleeping the way DS does and we have co-slept sicne she was born. She also sleeps less than "average" for her age, but at least she is mostly cheerful about it. With her, the problem is that she will not sleep unless I am next to her/holding her/she is nursing. If I get up in the night to pee, she wakes up and is screaming. I have tried to nurse her down and sneak away- she'll stay asleep anywhere from 10-30 minutes, but she wakes up instantly and now that she has refreshed herself with a "nap", LOL, she is awake for 2-3 more hours. SO we all go to bed together, and she wakes up when I do in the morning (she also wakes several times in the night-needs my nipple in her mouth constantly.)

SO- DS is tired and foul-tempered, I am tired and never get a break, as DD sleeps on my lap or on my back for her nap. DH is working 2 jobs right now, and actually today just left for Korea for 9 days. We don't have anyone who really can help us as DD is super-attached and has to be held constantly and screams bloody murder if someone else holds her.

Please help with ideas!! I need the kids to NOT be so tired and I need a break. Also, since DD won't sleep unless she's attached to me or DH, we have not had sex since she was born and it's really beginning to take a toll on our marriage.

Thanks for reading this novel, LOL.

[Deir]

That sounds like a terrible nightmare! I know there is so much going on here but, my one thought is to keep trying a routine. So many times I think as parents we give up because something isn't working too quick. It has taken along time to develop some of these patterns and it will take a while to change them! I would try sticking to a bedtime routine for 2 weeks before i totally gave up. I guess I am thinking more about your son in this case. The baby is another story and I was never good about getting routines that worked for my kids before age 2. But it really sounds like you and your son are at a breaking point and something HAS to change .Good luck. ((((hug)))))

[kayla14]

I could have written your post! I have a ds 4, and a ds 14 months. I also have 3 older girls, but they go to bed quite well thankfully!

I have no advice... Its hard because both ds's just want to be with us, but we need a bit of alone time! Plus the older girls keep complaining that its not fair that the 4yo gets to stay up late, and they have to go to bed. UGH!

[Curlyfry7]

Thanks for your replies!!

For using a routine with DS-we tried for about 2 months-it just never did any good. And now it is pretty much impossible to even try a new one (at this exact time, at least) as I can't do much with DS when I have DD to deal with too-either she is wide awake and keeping DS awake, or she has fallen asleep and I am trying not to wake HER up too. And DH (when he's home) is rapidly losing patience with all the sleep difficulties.

I wouldn't mind them staying up at night if they would both sleep in a little in the morning, but of course I'd prefer them going to bed earlier. Dh and I hear of kids that go to bed at 7pm and it's like hearing about someone from another planet. We just desperately need some adult time!

[Nillarilla]

What have you tried with your daughter as far as routine and trying to get her to sleep on her own? Have you read the No cry sleep solution? I think that might really help with your daughter. My daughter's difficult with sleep and very attached as well and it took a lot of work on my part before she would sleep alone and not need to nurse to sleep. She's 11 months.
My son is almost 4 and his sleep issues started later. But when we were having the bedtime battle that lasted 1-2 hrs we learned that started earlier was the way to go. It may sound crazy but you could start your bedtime routine with him between 6 and 630 provided you can get him to skip the nap. Start at least 1.5 to 2 hrs before he usually falls asleep. Keep track of the time he actually falls asleep to see if you are making progress even if it is only in 5 minute intervals.

[Nillarilla]

Oh and I think I would tackle one kid at a time since you will be solo parenting for a while. I personally would start with your daughter.

[Deir]

I also agree with the early bedtime. My 4 and 6 year olds start getting ready for bed at 6:15!!! We eat at 5, they do a bit of coloring or a bath and then we read until 6:30 go upstairs, brush teeth, read and they are generally asleep by 7:15. In the summer it isn't even much later. And we RARELY change this. For us that includes missing some nighttime events but it is worth it to have rested kids. It really has worked for us and we didn't have easy sleepers as babies. When you say you tried for 2 months- do you mean the exact (or nearly) thing every night? The longer I parent, the more amazed I am at how repetitive routine seems to solve almost every issue. It isn't magic- it takes patience and sometimes adaptation. The incredibly tricky part is doing these types of things without losing it when you are exhausted and fed up- that is sooo hard and I really feel for you. Hang in there! Oh- also I recommend the book Sleepless in America-