Switching to one meal for the whole family? (ie no separate food)? - Page 3

[laohaire]

OP, I'm with you. I do wish there were respondents who have actually BTDT - the experiences of those who said they "never" fed their kids separate meals are not nearly as relevant.

I am thinking about going cold turkey. The biggest thing that is holding me back is that DH is very concerned (and rightly so!) that DD gets enough to eat, and I don't know how long it will take her to start eating our food, that she does not touch now. He (rightly!) doesn't want her to starve to death, lol.

Me, I'm a little more laid back than he is and think I could hold firm.

For us it's really not a matter of making sure I somewhat avoid foods that DD doesn't like... that covers pretty much everything we eat except the (plain!) rice and MAYBE ground beef (drowned in ketchup). For us it's about DD learning to like real food. And that's what I want.

What would REALLY help me is to hear experiences of people who actually made the switch (not just said "wow, I would never have fed my kids anything different in the first place"). It would be REALLY helpful to hear, "she ate just morsels here and there for 2 days and was cranky on the 2nd day, but on the 3rd day she ate a huge helping of ____ which she'd never tried before, and by 2 weeks of cold turkey she will eat pretty much anything except ___ and ____ which is fine since I will always serve a different side dish or something with those."

[umsami]

OP and leohaire...

I really recommend that you check out some of Ellyn Satter's work. (She's very well regarded in the field...and has published quite a few studies.) She talks a lot about your concerns... and has plenty of real-life examples.

https://ellynsatter.com/articles.jsp?id=278

In general, she advises that you put the food on the table (if you child is old enough to serve themselves)... and she always recommends that you have at least one food that everybody likes... even if it's just bread and butter.

My cousin had two very very picky eaters.. to the point that their pediatrician was very concerned.... but catering to their pickiness did not solve the problem. It was when she started following Ellyn's advice that she saw a big change. Took a few weeks... but she said it made a big difference. That's why we turned to Ellyn when DS1 had the opposite problem... eating too much to the point of vomiting.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by umsami

I really recommend that you check out some of Ellyn Satter's work.

Thank you. I saw the mentions of her book earlier in this thread but I didn't think it seemed strictly relevant (at least to my case). But I looked at the website you linked to and think maybe it could be helpful. I requested the book through inter-library loan.

It's really hard also to find a true balance. Some people feel like the slightest restriction will lead to an eating disorder - like if my kid begs for ice cream and I say "not today" she will grow up to binge on it. On the other hand I *DO* see that a parent can have hang-ups about food and those can have negative consequences for children. I am extremely interested in nutrition and have some views about it that would be considered extreme by many Americans (views, but not actions). Ironically, my DD is eating anything but a nutritious diet, partly because of the cultural pressure I have to not restrict her.

Unfortunately the upshot is that I'm not relaxed about it, am not comfortable with her diet, and feel like I am stuck between being a "food nazi" or watching DD's health be damaged in the long run with the very poor diet she is eating. I never wanted to be a food nazi, all I wanted was a kid who ate real food and not just boxed cereal, pasta, frozen pizza and fruit (I'm fine with the fruit). It's the extremes that get me; if my kid ate frozen pizza, but also ate the soup I make, and a chicken drumstick, and mashed potatoes, and so on (*ETA: not neccessarily in the same meal of course! I mean, throughout the WEEK) - I wouldn't care. I'd be happy. But when she eats exclusively processed foods made with white flour and virtually no nutrition (again, the fruit I'm not fussed about) then I feel like being extreme in response, you know? Like banning those foods from our house. I don't see how I can acheive moderation when my kid will always hold out for the cereal and basically live off of it.

[PatchChild]

Your cold turkey plan can be a very successful way to go. Just serve what you are planning to cook. We've always had the rule that you need to have one bite of everything before you are done. One bite, and you're welcome to say yuck. Combine that with making sure there is something your child will like, a vegetable, or a side dish, even just bread, and you know they'll be ok.

For your DH's concerns, you've got all the other hours of the day to make sure that enough calories are getting in. If you're planning a dinner that you're pretty sure your child will turn their nose up at, serve a late afternoon snack.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by PatchChild

For your DH's concerns, you've got all the other hours of the day to make sure that enough calories are getting in. If you're planning a dinner that you're pretty sure your child will turn their nose up at, serve a late afternoon snack.

Then that won't be any different than what we have now. I didn't think we were just talking about dinnertime, I thought it was all meals. So, sure, I can serve frozen pizza as an afternoon snack and just feed me and DH for dinner, that's basically what we're doing now except the only difference is that this way DD will eat at a different time than DH and I do. I don't see the advantage.

My goal isn't to make my life easier. The effort required to make a frozen pizza or a bowl of cereal are about nil (actually they ARE nil for me, since DH does basically all of that - I do the "real" cooking). The goal is for my kid to eat real food so she can thrive. She's at 3rd percentile for weight-for-age and it's no wonder, cereal and frozen pizza don't have much if anything for a growing body.

[umsami]

Have you tried any of the Sneaky Chef recipes? It might help you make the foods she likes slightly healthier. She has some really good recipes... and you can find free samples on her website. If you don't want to go all puree crazy, you can use baby food... or just buy frozen veggies and blend them. http://www.thesneakychef.com/free_sn...ef_recipes.php

I also have an older book called "Stealth Health" by Evelyn Tribole. I use her black bean brownie recipe and the mashed potatoes (with cauliflower blended in) all the time. I finally told my kids that they had cauliflower in them, and my eldest proclaimed "Wow, then I must love cauliflower."

Or could you try making pizzas at home? I have a 6, 4, and 2-1/2 year old--and they all love making their own pizzas. (They love commercial and frozen too. ) My grocery store sells pizza dough in the bakery area... or you can make your own.. . buy Boboli... make it on pita bread... etc. If you make your own dough, you can gradually increase the ratio of whole-wheat, oat, or white-wheat flour in the dough. If you make your own sauce (although we sometimes use store bought spag sauce or pizza quick sauce)... you can easily add in carrots (chopped finely)... and perhaps a few other veggies.

For cereal, if the kids really want sugary cereal (I grew up in a no-sugar cereal household, and I think it was a bit too extreme), we'll mix it with a healthier version like Cheerios or something. Or offer the cereal she loves as dessert or a snack.

My kids loved the really sweet yogurt, but I found that they were just as happy with Greek yogurt, a squeezy bear of honey, and a bunch of fruit I knew they liked.

For a replacement for Spaghettios (which I admit, I even still like from time to time--probably the forbidden fruit aspect to me), we use Anabel Karmel's cheesy pasta stars recipe. It is really yummy (Mom can eat the whole dish)... and pretty easy to make too. http://www.annabelkarmel.com/recipes...sy-pasta-stars

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by umsami

Have you tried any of the Sneaky Chef recipes? It might help you make the foods she likes slightly healthier.

I'm all for sneaking but first I gotta get her to like some real food. Hard to sneak stuff into frozen pizza and cereal

Originally Posted by umsami

Or could you try making pizzas at home?

I used to for a while. DD would only eat the crust. It would drive me batty. And it was good pizza, too, really good. (I haven't stopped for any particular reason other than haven't felt like making it for a while.. been making a lot of stews and soups recently).

Originally Posted by umsami

For cereal, if the kids really want sugary cereal (I grew up in a no-sugar cereal household, and I think it was a bit too extreme), we'll mix it with a healthier version like Cheerios or something. Or offer the cereal she loves as dessert or a snack.

DD doesn't eat Trix, thankfully, just stuff like Special K, Corn Flakes, Kix, Rice Krispies, etc. The problem is that even though they aren't the 50%-sugar-by-weight cereals, they are basically fortified cardboard. I would not care if she ate cereal every morning for breakfast; what I care about is that she eats little else. Offering this for dessert or snack just means that she only eats dessert and snack, you know?

Again, it's not that I am having a heart attack that DD eats ANY cereal and frozen pizza. It's that it's ALL she eats. And if I am just offering her those things for snack only, that just means she will eat snacks only.

Does anyone think cereal and frozen pizza alone is adequate for a growing child? I do not... and other than cold turkey banning these things and insisting she eat the food that I make for me and DH, I don't have any ideas. All other ideas basically lead to where we are already.

I guess I could limit these things so she only can eat frozen pizza every other day or something - but I fear that will simply continue the dependence, and she will simply hold out for it and go hungry inbetween. I want to make real change in her eating habits, not just continue the status quo.

YES, that's a ridiculous position we're in, but regardless, that's where we are.

[elanorh]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Thank you. I saw the mentions of her book earlier in this thread but I didn't think it seemed strictly relevant (at least to my case). But I looked at the website you linked to and think maybe it could be helpful. I requested the book through inter-library loan.

I'm sorry I wasn't more clear when I recommended it earlier. I really think that Satter's work would in particular be very helpful for you!! She works with exactly the situation you're in - and her other focus over the years has been disordered eating. So the things you're worrying about, she has dealt directly with. The "Child of Mine" book looks at both kids who overeat and kids who don't eat enough, and 'picky eaters' too -- but it will definitely address your concerns.

SJ never got to the point your dd is at, in part because of her food allergies - processed *anything* was pretty much not an option for a long time, so they weren't available. But that doesn't mean that she didn't glom very heavily onto a relatively restricted diet (mostly meats, potatoes, carrots, bread). The Ellyn Satter book has helped us work through it, we are improving, it isn't magical and you will second-guess yourself. We were lucky in that SJ's weight is OK, so her weight wasn't worrying us; I think it's a greater leap of faith to make if you've got a child who is low or high on the charts.

It will help you relax, while motivating you at the same time. It is a leap of faith at first. My challenge while reading it, and now too, is that I kept asking myself, "But what about the food she doesn't FINISH?!" Because our food is home-grown or organic as much as possible. It's not cheap, and we sacrifice to afford it. At the same time, I don't want to just finish her meals (hello, already ate what I wanted on my OWN plate!) .... Satter's statements about self-regulation though are true and the more I trust SJ to eat what she wants and needs, the less leftover food I have on her plate. Incidentally, when I first started reading her book, I kept thinking, "But what about candy/sweets/junk food???? I can't just let her eat those without limits!!" and Satter does agree - she says that dessert is dessert, and it doesn't follow the same rules for letting kids self-regulate. They get one serving, and that's that (well, it's more nuanced than that in terms of snacks, Hallowe'en etc., but you get the general idea).

Read the book. When I read it this summer, I didn't have anyone IRL to talk about it with. If you want to start a support/discussion thread on it in the Book Club section, I will post there too and I'm sure umsami would do so as well.

[crwilson]

Laohaire - I'm in what sounds like a very similar situation, in that my daughter eats a VERY limited number of foods, which I worry about and my husband thinks she'll grow out of. I've often contemplated going cold turkey, but I'm worried that dd, who is very strong willed, will actually starve to death. I mean, I know that she won't, but I'm not sure how long she'll hold out and it makes me very nervous. I'm not comfortable with the "provide a snack she'll eat" approach because then I know that she'll just hold out and eat less than she eats already, which isn't very much to begin with.

I did read "Child of Mine" but it didn't provide me with the reassurance that I wanted that, truly, dd would start eating. Even just a sense of how long it would take for her to decide to eat would be comforting...

As for how we got to this point, I'm not really sure. DD does have food allergies, and that certainly contributed, but it just sort of slowly happened until she eats hardly anything.

[Nate'sMama]

Hey KatieLady!

So YOU inspired me and we did it. Cold Turkey.

I utilized some of the advice here and took cues from my kids (and DH) on what might work for them. Basically we now have a Family Style meal. Been doing it for a week now and there have been zero food struggles at dinner. The food choices will be limited for DH and I on regular nites. I'll make us one nice meal per week (nice means spicy for DH)

I put everything on the table making sure there is something for everyone. We pick and choose. I am so much happier.

If they still don't want it or if I feel they haven't eaten enough I will offer cereal. But I won't cook anything else.

I hope that you've found a plan that works for you - -give us an update!
Thanks for starting this thread I was at the end of my rop with dinner time here. Now I say -YAY!

[karne]

I am extremely interested in the book being mentioned in this thread. Thanks for the suggestion!

OP, no advice, but sympathy. I've watched a s-in-law truly struggle w/this issue, and ultimately it became about so much more than the food. The kids are teens now, and the situation hasn't much improved--absolutely no trying of any new foods, limited, and pretty unhealthy diet, and probably worst for s-in-law, kids won't eat at other people's houses, or expect seperate food prepared for them. It's very hard.

[pjs]

My 7 yo ds is a processed white flour junkie! I'm trying to reduce the availability of it in my home. Right now I'm down to buying raisin bagels and blueberry waffles (we need convenient breakfast foods as a homeschooling family of 6 and my other kids will eat yogurt and hard boiled eggs), but this kid will eat half a bagel every two hours. I'm frustrated with trying to find something else he will eat, but I'm proud of all the other junk we've stpped buying (goldfish, nilla wafers, crackers, white bread, etc) and how he has adapted accordingly (he'll eat salami, fruit, etc)

[umsami]

pjs...have you tried the Kashi frozen blueberry waffles? They're pretty good...and slightly better from a nutrition-standpoint than Eggos. We actually find them at Costco--so it makes them much more affordable long-term. (Of course, I'd buy one box at your regular store and try them out before getting stuck w/ 48 waffles from Costco. )

I definitely think you need to celebrate your accomplishments already. No child eats perfectly--and I'm not even sure I'd want that--and it sounds like you've made some great improvements.

[zeldamomma]

Originally Posted by Katielady

As far as making the transition, I'm curious what y'all do if they completely refuse to eat a meal. Right now, we keep having this problem where DS refuses to eat the breakfast I made, and then if it's a day where he has preschool, I worry about him being starving hungry at school all day. I end up cajoling him into eating it bite by bite and it's extremely frustrating. Or if it's not a school day, we're generally going out somewhere. Then he gets hungry when we're out, and ends up having like pretzels or something, which annoys me because of the poor nutrition. I can't bring cheese sticks or yogurts since he doesn't eat dairy, and he's rejected soy yogurt and coconut yogurt.

Anyway, what do you do when they don't eat the meal and then want to fill up on snacks that aren't as nutritious?

Sometimes my 3y.o. will refuse to eat the breakfast he chose. Generally I say you have to eat before you can do X (whatever he wants to do next) and he either eats what he chose first or picks something else.

For me, letting my child be in charge of listening to his body and deciding how much he needs to eat trumps short term concerns about nutrition. But that's just a judgment call. Could you bring along some sliced fruit or a bag of dry cereal as an alternative to pretzels?

I have never had a healthy child refuse to eat anything at dinner and then want to eat a snack afterward. If they eat very little at dinner, generally there are leftovers, and they are invited to eat the leftovers if they are hungry immediately after dinner. (This assumes dinner came out ok and wasn't weird or too spicy or otherwise difficult for a kid to eat) If dinner is weird, or spicy or otherwise too challenging and they try it, we'll work together to find an alternative, but that's an unusual occurrence.

[Nate'sMama]

Originally Posted by karne

I am extremely interested in the book being mentioned in this thread. Thanks for the suggestion!

OP, no advice, but sympathy. I've watched a s-in-law truly struggle w/this issue, and ultimately it became about so much more than the food. The kids are teens now, and the situation hasn't much improved--absolutely no trying of any new foods, limited, and pretty unhealthy diet, and probably worst for s-in-law, kids won't eat at other people's houses, or expect seperate food prepared for them. It's very hard.

My sister and my nephew are like this which is why I am so afraid of it. My sis still brings pasta to ANY family event for her 11 yo.
And I do believe that it shows itself in other areas. Trying new things and all.

[*LoveBugMama*]

Originally Posted by JL83

What we found useful is not to combine the foods.

It can be harder than it sounds, but it makes for easy meal time. Tonight we have green curry and rice. I cooked the chicken separately because I know DD doesn't like it out of the curry. I added 1/2 the veggies to the curry sauce and 1/2 the veggies were served raw.

So, instead of just choosing between curry and rice, where I know DD would have only wanted rice. She could have rice, chicken and some raw veggies with dip from the fridge. DH and I combined the curry and chicken over the rice and then has some raw veggies too.

Once I started really trying to do this, it because surprising at how much stuff I could spilt out and serve on it's own.

This is exactly what I do. LoveBug isn`t very fond of mixed foods, so I "always" keep things separated. I want him to be able to have a full, nutritious meal, just like myself.
What works the best, is to put everything in different small bowls, like a meatsubstitute in one bowl (I`m vegetarian, he is not), chicken in one, raw veggies in different bowls/plates, cheese, some cooked/steemed/baked veggies, pitabread/tortilla/potatoes/pasta/rice or something similar in one etc. And some sauces/dips. And we both can just pick whatever we want to. Works like a charm every time.