Christian Mamas - Should we get married NOW? **UPDATE POST 49**

[just_lily]

I put this in Spirituality because I hope for this thread to be support-only. I don't mind if someone tells me they think our actions are wrong or we should choose another path or something, but I just don't want to be debating Christianity here. Thanks.

This might get ramble-y, so thanks in advance if you stay with me.

DF and I have been together for nearly three years, and have been engaged for a year and a half. We have an 18mo daughter together (DF proposed the day she was born) and own a home.

We haven't actually gotten married yet simply because of the expense and logistics involved in having a wedding. We only want to have a small wedding with about 30 people, and are planning on having the reception in our back yard, but even that costs a lot more than we have.

Both of us were raised as Christians in a hap-hazard way, but were away from the faith for years and years. Over the last six months we have found a new church home, attend regularly, and both feeling deeper in our faith than we ever have before.

Things have also been really tough lately. We have struggled financially since we had our daughter (I gave up a job where I was making really good money to stay home, and opened a day care in order to bring in more income), and over the last few months whenever we get to the point we think we are going to pull ourselves out of it, something else happens to knock us back down. Most recently, DF got laid off last week (on my birthday even - it was a great day). So now we have gone from not ever having any money for extras beyond the essential bills, to seriously worrying if we will be able to make our mortgage payments.

We have also been trying to get pregnant again and it isn't working. We got pregnant with DD the very first time we had unprotected sex - whereas we haven't used birth control since she was born, and she completely refused the breast so that is a non-issue, and we can't get pregnant.

We are beginning to wonder if God is doing this because he is displeased we are living together, and have a child, because we aren't married.

We are both completely committed to each other, and feel married in our hearts. Most people around us assume that we are married, and we don't usually correct them unless it is relevant (like I wouldn't lie if they asked outright, but I don't correct anyone that refers to my DF as my husband, and he doesn't correct anyone that refers to me as his wife).

Aside from this, I feel like we are leading fairly Godly lives. Of course there is always room for improvement, but not being married is our only big issue.

So we are starting to consider just going ahead and getting married in order to get right with God. We had been hoping to have a ceremony this summer, but that is looking doubtful now that DF is out of work. We are thinking of asking our Pastor to marry us just in his office or our living room or something, and then if we can swing it, we can always have a party for our family and friends later and either renew our vows or just ask our Pastor to come and give a blessing or something.

I am torn. I really can do without the trappings of a formal ceremony, but I know my family will be disappointed. I am the only daughter in my family, and one of my brothers has already eloped, so there is a hope for me to have a wedding. It won't cause such strife that they won't talk to us or anything, but they will be upset. They all love DF, so that is a non-issue.

I also kind of feel like maybe people won't want to travel across the country if we are just having a party. On the other hand both of our fathers are turning 60 in July, so we are thinking of having a double 60th birthday / we got married / let's eat steak! party.

Even if we knew we would be able to afford a ceremony this summer, I worry that if God is truly displeased, what will happen if we continue to delay another six months?

So what do you think? Of course we are going to talk to our Pastor about it, but I want to do some more personal reflection first. DF suggested that we just go down to a justice of the peace and get it done, but if we are doing it to get right with God, then I think we should go through the church. It also means a lot more to have our Pastor, who we like and respect, to do it, rather than just some stranger.

Thanks.

[Kailey's mom]

I would go ahead and get married. Talk to your pastor first, and let them know your financial situation. There may be people at the church who will volunteer to make invitations, and also cook food for the reception, set up etc. I got my dress at the church thrift shop * it fit PERFECTLY, no alterations at all needed* for twenty dollars. It was beautiful. I'm sure they cut me a deal because of my financial situation. Our out of pocket expences for the wedding total was 350 dollars! It could have been cheaper than that to be honest. Congrats!

[JMJ]

Could you invite your two sets of parents to the pastor's office with you to do your vows? It's not exactly eloping.

Could you decide to abstain between now and when you do get married?

[weliveintheforest]

I think I would get married soon, with a small church ceremony. If you involve your family will they help pay for a wedding? I think the ceremony itself can be very inexpensive, and if you wanted a reception after you could always go with a potluck, or just sandwiches.

[just_lily]

We would totally involve our families, but then it gets complicated. We live in Alberta, and DF's parents and brother live withing about 45 minutes. No problems there. But my parents, who are divorced, live in Ontario about 6 hours from each other. My oldest brother lives in Pennsylvania, and my middle brother lives in Vancouver. DF's extended family live in England so we aren't expecting them either way, but I do hope an aunt and uncle of mine would come, and they live in Ontario as well. So it really isn't a "what are you doing a week from Tuesday?" situation.

We could do the private ceremony with my inlaws, but then I think my parents would feel left out. My mom is actually going to be here for a week at the end of the month, but if we had DF's parents and my mom, my dad would completely be left out and I am sure would be upset.

We were already planning on cutting costs as much as possible by having the reception at our house. My middle brother is a chef and has already agreed to cook for me, and my MIL is an excellent cook herself - but we still need to pay for food. I am plus sized, so I really don't see any $20 wedding gowns in my future. I do know of one consignment shop that carries plus sized gowns, but they are still like $500 and up.

I figure that if we did just a ceremony with the pastor, we still should plan on spending nearly $500 by the time we pay for the marriage license, a ring for DF (my engagement ring could be used as a wedding band, and I am fine with that), and the donation to the church. That's assuming that we wear clothes we already own, and don't go for dinner or anything.

DF's parents have agreed to help us with the wedding, and I am sure my parents will help out as well, but logistically we won't be able to get everyone together until the summer at the earliest. My middle brother and his wife just had a baby last weekend, to make things even more complicated, so they won't be ready to travel for a while.

So if we do it now.... it'll be small, maybe asking a couple of friends to be our witnesses so that family doesn't get upset. And if we want to have an actual ceremony, we are looking at six months out.

[just_lily]

Oh, and I will talk to DF about abstaining, but I am pretty sureI know what his answer will be....

[genifer]

We are beginning to wonder if God is doing this because he is displeased we are living together, and have a child, because we aren't married.

Just lily, I just want to congratulate you on a few things first of all!!

On the birth of your baby, its been a while but congrats anyway!

On getting engaged! And most importantly on coming back to a faith in Jesus Christ!!

If I can be honest with you. I wonder if in God's eyes you and your df are already married. In His eyes I wonder if you are simply one flesh already and the ceremony would simply be a celebration with your flesh and blood family.

Oh yeah, and on the bit I quoted, Im of the opinion that God doesnt work like that. I dont think God is unpleased with you. I wonder if its something else that only God knows and Im willing to wager a lot on the fact that He is willing to reveal it to you through prayer and bible study.

I would simply suggest you do one thing... Seek God alone on this one. If you are feeling a strong conviction and your df is feeling it too, get married in a small affordable ceremony. If not, dont sweat it. In all honesty tho, really and truely all you need is enough cash for the marriage lisense... I eloped with my dh 11 years ago and I wore jeans and a t-shirt!

[cappuccinosmom]

From the conservative Christian perspective, the two options would be, get married now (as in, the fist day the jop or a preacher will do it for you), or abstain from sex until you are married. In my understanding, marriage isn't just an agreement between two people, but a serious, formal, public covenant between them and God, with direct implications for children and society at large. So, "feeling married" and making a private agreement is kind of the bare minimum to scrape by, and as Christians we aren't called to the bare minimum, yk?

I think there are some natural consequences to sex outside of marriage, but I don't think God "zaps" people angrily for sinning. Most of the tough stuff we deal with are either direct results of our own choices, or results of other people's choices that impact us.

If your parents want a party, tell them they're welcome to put one on, even after your legal marriage. Since you've been living together, having sex, and are having children, and doing things non-traditionally from the Christian perspective, a "traditional" wedding is more for show than anything else. It's fine to want it, but if their vision of the perfect, traditional wedding is the only thing keeping you from getting married, I'd tell them (politely) to stuff it, honestly.

If it were my sister or a close friend asking this question, because she felt convicted about sex outside of marriage and bringing children into the world outside marriage, I'd advise her to get legally married at the courthouse, and then we could have a big old celebration of their marriage whenever they wanted to.

[fruitfulmomma]

Another vote for get married asap. I would have a small ceremony with some friends as witnesses right away. Later when all your family can be there you could do a more formal ceremony or a large reception.

My husband and I were married a year sooner than we planned because we were living together and both knew it was wrong. The scriptures say that is is better to marry than to burn (that is lust after one another, and we both know after having been with someone this long, abstinence just isn't going to happen,) and a man who commits fornication with a virgin is called to marry her unless her father forbids it. We still waited several months so we could put on the whole wedding thing and if I had it to do all over again we would not have waited at all.

[CrunchyChristianMama]

I'd have to put myself in the same boat as Cappuccinosmom. I think there is also a need beyond this issue to look at your understanding of God.

It would appear that you see Him as a vengeful parent standing over His followers waiting to punish them for their misdeeds. It also seems that while you think He will punish you for outward sins, that he doesn't care about what's going on in your own heart. If you decide to abstain simply thinking that doing so will allow you to get pregnant again once you get married because then God won't be mad at you, I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed and confused if that's not how it happens. Likewise, if you quickly marry and then still struggle to conceive, will you be just as angry with God that He hasn't followed thorough with "His end of the deal"?

I hope I'm making sense here. Sorry if I'm not.

If I were to advice you though, my advice would be this. Marry your DF right away. Then, work on your relationship with Christ and understanding the true nature of God.

[bcblondie]

I would get married. But I don't believe that is the reason you aren't getting pregnant. You may need to do some preliminary testing to see if there's anything wrong. Pregnancy can change your hormones forever. You may just need clomid or something basic to help you conceive

[Autumn Breeze]

Not a Christian Mama, but perhaps setting a date for this summer and planning, with your family and his family for financial support, the 60th Birthdays, and your vows, will appease God for a time. And maybe even more so if you agree to abstain? You can ask your pastor what he charges, and find out how much the license and any necessary tests (not in all states) will cost. You guys save up for the cost of the marriage itself, and ask your family to help pitch in with the cost of the party. You can even request that "local friends and family bring a dish to share at the event".

Good luck!

[walking burp cloth]

We are beginning to wonder if God is doing this because he is displeased we are living together, and have a child, because we aren't married.

I am also one who believes that God does not work this way. I do not think we can earn or lose his blessings. That is a works based relationship. God is a God of grace, and there is nothing we can do that would bring us to a place where we deserve His blessings. He loves and and blesses us not because of anything we do or do not do, but because of who He is.

If your parents want a party, tell them they're welcome to put one on, even after your legal marriage. Since you've been living together, having sex, and are having children, and doing things non-traditionally from the Christian perspective, a "traditional" wedding is more for show than anything else. It's fine to want it, but if their vision of the perfect, traditional wedding is the only thing keeping you from getting married, I'd tell them (politely) to stuff it, honestly.

This for sure. If you want to get married by your pastor in your home, do it. It sounds lovely. If your parents are the ones who want the party, what she said!

And I also agree that this is something you should take up with God. He will direct you perfectly.

You will have to keep us posted!!

[Smokering]

My take on it? Adam and Eve probably didn't have a wedding ceremony. I believe couples who live together and are committed for the long haul ARE married in God's eyes. I would still prefer my daughter to marry her spouse officially (er, if and when she has one - she hasn't turned two yet, so it's not a pressing issue!) for various reasons: to avoid gossip for her own sake, so she didn't inadvertently cause other Christians to think sleeping around was OK or something (the whole "do not cause your brother to stumble" thing), so they'd have their vows before God to reflect on and solidify their commitment, and so on. Plus, weddings, pretty.

The other issue is conscience. Even though I think you are Biblically married, if you feel like you're sinning by living together, then essentially, you are. And you should remedy that however you feel is necessary - by a quickie civil wedding or abstaining from sex until you get "properly" married, or whatever. If your relationship is drawing you away from God, it shouldn't be. But if it's drawing you closer, I'd tend to invoke "to the pure, all things are pure" and tell you to get legally married if, when and how you want to.

[walking burp cloth]

[theretohere]

My take is that we are called to listen to and respect authority- and that includes our government. The government sets out that marriage isn't just something in our hearts that we feel, but a public commitment to another person for life. I would get married right away, or live separately until that was possible. I would abstain from sex until then, as well. It's not unheard of for people to get married and wait to have a reception until they can afford it, or the time is right.

[Soul-O]

Originally Posted by Autumn Breeze

Not a Christian Mama, but perhaps setting a date for this summer and planning, with your family and his family for financial support, the 60th Birthdays, and your vows, will appease God for a time. And maybe even more so if you agree to abstain? You can ask your pastor what he charges, and find out how much the license and any necessary tests (not in all states) will cost. You guys save up for the cost of the marriage itself, and ask your family to help pitch in with the cost of the party. You can even request that "local friends and family bring a dish to share at the event".

Good luck!

OK, I need to take issue with part of this post from a Christian perspective. There is no "appeasing" God, as this is not part of our faith. Jesus died on the cross for our sins - both large and small - and if we accept Him as personal savior, then our sins are forgiven, period. God is a loving God who knows our hearts and wants the best for us (Jeremiah 29:11). Yes, there are consequences for our sins; however, the reasons for consequences are that God wants us to learn from our mistakes and trust Him with our lives and choices.

That said, I also vote for "get married right away." I agree with the others who stated that marriage is a public commitment to each other and God which carries weight both in the secular and Christian sense. My DH and I chose to have a JOP ceremony in advance of our Christian ceremony because we had rented a condo together and I was planning to move in ahead of him with my two older DSs. We really didn't want to be living in seperate residences for the next four weeks until our Christian wedding, so we decided to do the JOP ceremony one afternoon after work, then we moved his stuff into the condo that evening . The whole shebang cost about $55 (marriage cert and JOP fee). We had a nice dinner and cake with my parents that evening, so about $150 total.

[lilyka]

Definitely get married now.

You are letting the trappings of a party stand in the way of being right with God. If your parents want a party ask them to pay for it.

There is no pretending to be married. You either are or you aren't.

If you want the ceremony, get married quietly now and have some sort of blessing ceremony withte dress and the cake and the party and all that later. But for the love of pete ate least get married before intentionally concieving another child (and ofr the record I do not think God is punishing you although he may well be waiting for your obedience in this area.)

[AustinMom]

Couple things, I'll try to be brief, but I feel you maybe look at things from a different perspective. I am very much so a Christian to start out with, so this isn't just the flesh talking, if you know what I mean.

1st-The God I know, is not a "punisher". Of course, if we choose to do something wrong, we do suffer the consequences, but I find it hard to believe that God is punishing for not being married by not allowing y'all to conceive. MY opinion is this, God sees the times your family is in is rough. Maybe HE thinks it's not the best time to bring another baby into your family, and if that's the case, go with his timing, he's see more than the moment, he sees ALL. God is a lover. He loves you. There is nothing you can do to make him love you more, or make him love you less. I think that he has (maybe a few even) a season or two for your hubby and you to go through before you have another baby. And no, I don't think holding a wedding ceremony is the "season" I'm talking about.

2nd-According to what you have said, how the two of you refer to one another, and you live together, you are married already by the state of Texas, I'd look up your state laws to be sure for you as far as insurance and other benefits go, but I don't think God need you to have a big white dress, fancy party to tell him the two of you have committed yourselves to each other. He gets it, remember, he sees ALL, even our hearts.

3rd-my husband and I had a ceremony with me, him, the couple who introduced us who were very close friends of ours, their son as our ring bearer, the pastor, and his daughter who I am friends with, who did the photography of our wedding. It was wonderful. Yes feelings were a little hurt, but we didn't have money, people were miles and miles away, and I wouldn't take it back for anything. Even if we could afford a bigger wedding, I don't think I would have wanted it that way. A wedding is what the bride and groom (mainly the bride as the groom doesn't usually care as much) decide is most precious and special for them. For some, it's 5 people, for others it's 500. I think you should wait till the two of y'all can afford the wedding y'all want. You don't want to look back and say, i wish we would have done it differently.

4th-on the "The government sets out that marriage isn't just something in our hearts that we feel, but a public commitment to another person for life" comment. Yes, you follow the law, as that is biblical as well, but the government does a lot of stuff that I don't agree with, and that doesn't pertain to me, also you may already be married according to your "government". Also, it seems you are more worried about marriage in God's eyes than in the government. Also, I don't see the government telling anyone they can't live together, have sex, make babies, etc.


God loves you and is not punishing you. I'm pretty sure your pastor will tell you this as well. But, at the same time, I'm sure he will encourage the two of y'all to get hitched as that is what most would recommend. But if the main reason you are wanting to get married NOW is due to feeling like God is punishing you, I doubt he would agree with that. I don't think anyone should get married for that reason, if they are not ready in other ways (not saying you aren't)

Much Love.

[just_lily]

OP again.

I have almost replied a bunch of times over the last day or so, but I keep going away and thinking about it more. I'm still not entirely sure what I feel about this.

I don't feel that God is punishing us. I do think that things aren't going all that super lately, and that may or may not be a consequence of our living together. But I don't think it is vengeance or anything like that. If God was that harsh, there are all kinds of people living much worse lives that need to look out!

Originally Posted by genifer

Just lily, I just want to congratulate you on a few things first of all!!

On the birth of your baby, its been a while but congrats anyway!

On getting engaged! And most importantly on coming back to a faith in Jesus Christ!!

That is totally the best part! The fact that DF and I have managed to do this together has been so fabulous, and has definitely brought us closer to each other. We are very blessed.

If I can be honest with you. I wonder if in God's eyes you and your df are already married. In His eyes I wonder if you are simply one flesh already and the ceremony would simply be a celebration with your flesh and blood family.

I wonder this too. God knows our hearts. He knows we are just as committed to each other as if we had that piece of paper. Other people may not view it that way, I understand, but it is how we feel.

Originally Posted by cappuccinosmom

If your parents want a party, tell them they're welcome to put one on, even after your legal marriage. Since you've been living together, having sex, and are having children, and doing things non-traditionally from the Christian perspective, a "traditional" wedding is more for show than anything else. It's fine to want it, but if their vision of the perfect, traditional wedding is the only thing keeping you from getting married, I'd tell them (politely) to stuff it, honestly.

Nobody around us is looking for a 'traditional' wedding, as they just want to be involved. Neither of our families are upset that we are living together or have a child and aren't married. My brother and his wife (not the one that eloped) got married in Vegas and everyone thought it was fabulous. DF and I are the most religious of either of our families, so nobody is pressuring us to have a church ceremony or anything like that. They just would be upset if we go ahead and do it without them.

Originally Posted by Evie's Mama

It would appear that you see Him as a vengeful parent standing over His followers waiting to punish them for their misdeeds. It also seems that while you think He will punish you for outward sins, that he doesn't care about what's going on in your own heart. If you decide to abstain simply thinking that doing so will allow you to get pregnant again once you get married because then God won't be mad at you, I'm afraid you will be sorely disappointed and confused if that's not how it happens. Likewise, if you quickly marry and then still struggle to conceive, will you be just as angry with God that He hasn't followed thorough with "His end of the deal"?

I hope I'm making sense here. Sorry if I'm not.

If I were to advice you though, my advice would be this. Marry your DF right away. Then, work on your relationship with Christ and understanding the true nature of God.

I get what you are saying, but I am not sure if I was all that clear in my OP. I don't feel like I am making a deal with God by getting married or anything like that, although I am aware that is how it may have come across.

When DF and I were first dating, when we bought our house, when we conceived our child we weren't really Christians. We thought we were, but the word has a lot more meaning now, which I am sure most of you can understand. I feel now that maybe we need to make some changes in order to really be leading Christian lives, and then hopefully things will start to get better for us. Not in an overnight kind of way, but as the Holy Spirit continues to work within our hearts and our lives.

Not sure if I am making sense here. Probably not so much, as I am still trying to work it out in my head.

Originally Posted by Smokering

My take on it? Adam and Eve probably didn't have a wedding ceremony. I believe couples who live together and are committed for the long haul ARE married in God's eyes. I would still prefer my daughter to marry her spouse officially (er, if and when she has one - she hasn't turned two yet, so it's not a pressing issue!) for various reasons: to avoid gossip for her own sake, so she didn't inadvertently cause other Christians to think sleeping around was OK or something (the whole "do not cause your brother to stumble" thing), so they'd have their vows before God to reflect on and solidify their commitment, and so on. Plus, weddings, pretty.

The other issue is conscience. Even though I think you are Biblically married, if you feel like you're sinning by living together, then essentially, you are. And you should remedy that however you feel is necessary - by a quickie civil wedding or abstaining from sex until you get "properly" married, or whatever. If your relationship is drawing you away from God, it shouldn't be. But if it's drawing you closer, I'd tend to invoke "to the pure, all things are pure" and tell you to get legally married if, when and how you want to.

I think I agree with you on the bolded, but I am still not entirely sure.

My relationship with DF has definitely brought me closer to God. I am not sure if I would have come so far in my faith if DF wasn't on the same journey with me. We go to church together, we pray together, we read scripture together.

Will we have a closer relationship with God after we get married? I have no idea, one way or another. I guess that is kind of the question of the day.

Originally Posted by theretohere

My take is that we are called to listen to and respect authority- and that includes our government. The government sets out that marriage isn't just something in our hearts that we feel, but a public commitment to another person for life. I would get married right away, or live separately until that was possible. I would abstain from sex until then, as well. It's not unheard of for people to get married and wait to have a reception until they can afford it, or the time is right.

I live in Alberta, so the fact that we live together and have a child together makes us common-law married, which gives us all of the same rights and privileges as a married couple. So this isn't really a legal issue for us, as it is a spiritual one.

Living apart is not a possibility in any way. We have an 18mo daughter and I am not going to traumatize her by removing a parent from her day-to-day life. I really don't think that is what God wants for us.

Originally Posted by AustinMom

Couple things, I'll try to be brief, but I feel you maybe look at things from a different perspective. I am very much so a Christian to start out with, so this isn't just the flesh talking, if you know what I mean.

1st-The God I know, is not a "punisher". Of course, if we choose to do something wrong, we do suffer the consequences, but I find it hard to believe that God is punishing for not being married by not allowing y'all to conceive. MY opinion is this, God sees the times your family is in is rough. Maybe HE thinks it's not the best time to bring another baby into your family, and if that's the case, go with his timing, he's see more than the moment, he sees ALL. God is a lover. He loves you. There is nothing you can do to make him love you more, or make him love you less. I think that he has (maybe a few even) a season or two for your hubby and you to go through before you have another baby. And no, I don't think holding a wedding ceremony is the "season" I'm talking about.

I agree completely. I'm not sure why I mentioned the not conceiving issue in my OP, because it isn't the major concern for us in the moment. More the financial stability and job loss issues. I absolutely believe that God hasn't intended for us to have another biological child yet, and I don't think that marriage is the only issue. (For example, we are feeling very drawn towards adoption and are exploring this in our province.)

2nd-According to what you have said, how the two of you refer to one another, and you live together, you are married already by the state of Texas, I'd look up your state laws to be sure for you as far as insurance and other benefits go, but I don't think God need you to have a big white dress, fancy party to tell him the two of you have committed yourselves to each other. He gets it, remember, he sees ALL, even our hearts.

Yep, we have a common law relationship, under the law. Under God? Maybe. Maybe not.

Does anyone have any biblical or other references of what a wedding or being "married" is supposed to consist of? There is lots of talk of husbands and wives and being married, but for example what consisted of a wedding in the Old Testament? Did a man just pay the bride price, and the woman moved in? I am not aware of anything that Jesus said about the subject. If anyone has any info on this, please let me know.

I'm still completely conflicted about what to do. I would very much like to have our family with us, but I am not sure if we should wait until the summer in order to make that happen. At other times I wish we could just be married already, and then I wouldn't have to make any decisions about it anymore.

Oh, and I should mention DF. He just says that he wants to do whatever is going to make me happy. If that is getting married tomorrow, great, if this summer, that's great too. I know he thinks he is just being agreeable, but it isn't helping to make a decision!!