study UC Davis: serious lung infection rose since Prevnar introduction (serotype replacement)

[nia82]

http://www.healthnewsdigest.com/news..._Vaccine.shtml

[ema-adama]

Thanks fo posting. I haven't read through is yet, but it looks interesting

[stacey05]

Good article, thanks for posting this. The comments were good and included some from Hilary Butler.

[amnesiac]

Moving to the Main forum...

[kamane18]

We had done the first two Prevnar shots (one at 2.5 months, one at 5 months) - Ped scared us at the time about meningitis. I'd prefer not to get the last two shots of it - but does doing that put DS (7.5 months old) at higher risk of getting BOTH the strains covered by the shots AND the uncovered strains? Is it like an antibiotic - you need to finish the course of it once you start? Thoughts welcome - sorry we got this shot in the first place...

[MountainMamaGC]

Not its not like an antibiotic. You dont have to finish any course of any vaccine if you dont want to.

I like how near the end of the article they say they are going to come up with another vaccine to solve the problem.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Lydiah

Not its not like an antibiotic. You dont have to finish any course of any vaccine if you dont want to.

I like how near the end of the article they say they are going to come up with another vaccine to solve the problem.

Is common sense lacking here? (in this article! not Lydiah!!) I would think even a provaxer would be able to see how completely illogical the last part of this article is!

[QUOTE]We're hoping that once the new vaccine is approved and licensed and distributed to patients we would look at the data again and that we would find decrease in the incidence of empyema,[QUOTE]

The entire article os about serotype replacement...isn't it logoical to assume that when this new "improved' vaccine comes out that covers more strains, that yes, the problem of empyema will go down, because the bacterial strains that lead to this particular complication will be targeted, but once again, something else will step in to take it's place. Another "rare" complication will start becoming a problem and around and around we go....

[nia82]

You are so right Marnica. There they have proof of serotype replacement and how the vaccine actually opened the doors for a worse disease. I wonder though if they have to just say oh a new vaccine will do the trick and otherwise wouldn't be published. All studies that ever show a negative effect of vaccines have to defend themselves, and researches have to write paragraphs about how they love vaccines to even be allowed to present their data.

Kamane: You do not have to finish. However, I do not know what the previous Prevnar shots did or not did to your DC's immune system. But since they want 4 shots it is safe to assume that it only provides some protection from the seven strains and certainly doesn't prevent carriage. I would recommend to read up about Prevnar efficacy studies to get a clearer picture.

[kamane18]

Originally Posted by nia82

Kamane: You do not have to finish. However, I do not know what the previous Prevnar shots did or not did to your DC's immune system. But since they want 4 shots it is safe to assume that it only provides some protection from the seven strains and certainly doesn't prevent carriage. I would recommend to read up about Prevnar efficacy studies to get a clearer picture.

Thanks Nia and everyone else. I know I don't "have" to finish any vaccines - my question was more just about the serotype replacement. I'd prefer NOT to do any more PC vaxes - but want to make sure that decision wouldn't put DS at HIGHER risk than finishing the series actually would. Wish we hadn't done this one in the first place, believe me...

[MountainMamaGC]

Originally Posted by kamane18

Thanks Nia and everyone else. I know I don't "have" to finish any vaccines - my question was more just about the serotype replacement. I'd prefer NOT to do any more PC vaxes - but want to make sure that decision wouldn't put DS at HIGHER risk than finishing the series actually would. Wish we hadn't done this one in the first place, believe me...

I know I think my DD had 2 of these before I quit vaxing. I just hope her immune system was way to immature to respond to it at all.

[mamakay]

The article says:

The empyema-associated hospitalization rate was an estimated 3.7 per 100,000, an increase of almost 70 percent over the 1997 empyema hospitalization rate of 2.2 per 100,000. The rate of complicated pneumonia, which includes empyema, pleural effusion, or bacterial pneumonia requiring a chest tube or decortication, similarly increased 45 percent to 5.5 per 100,000.

But this is a great tradeoff because there's less mild, uncomplicated pneumonia now.

Am I reading that right?

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Is common sense lacking here? (in this article! not Lydiah!!) I would think even a provaxer would be able to see how completely illogical the last part of this article is!

We're hoping that once the new vaccine is approved and licensed and distributed to patients we would look at the data again and that we would find decrease in the incidence of empyema,

The entire article os about serotype replacement...isn't it logoical to assume that when this new "improved' vaccine comes out that covers more strains, that yes, the problem of empyema will go down, because the bacterial strains that lead to this particular complication will be targeted, but once again, something else will step in to take it's place. Another "rare" complication will start becoming a problem and around and around we go....

Beautiful business plan, no?

[Bea]

This is comforting. Now you're less likely to get pneumonia but the pneumonia you do get, is more likely to kill you.

Wonderful.

I'd like to see the morbidity stats compairing before and after. Is prevnar actually saving lives or just money from fewer hospitalisations?

[bbrandonsmom]

Ema-can you get the link for the pubmed article?

[ema-adama]

Five-fold increase in pediatric parapneumonic empyema since introduction of pneumococcal conjugate vaccine.

PMID: 18845981

There are so many studies looking at this if you go into pubmed.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez

Type in 'empyema' 'prevnar' 'serotype replacement' and you have hours of reading abstracts

[Juvysen]

Originally Posted by Bea

This is comforting. Now you're less likely to get pneumonia but the pneumonia you do get, is more likely to kill you.

Wonderful.

I'd like to see the morbidity stats compairing before and after. Is prevnar actually saving lives or just money from fewer hospitalisations?

I believe the argument in favor of the vaccine is not about pneumonia, but that it sometimes causes meningitis? So, the lives saved are those that are thus not getting meningitis after having had the vaccine. I'm not completely clear on this, though, but I thought it was a "meningitis conjugate" vaccine?

My ped said he was sending a kid a week to the hospital to be tested for meningitis before HIB and Prevnar came out, but he could just be saying that. Obviously not all those kids had meningitis from it, but probably some did, and since meningitis moves pretty quickly, I guess they err on the side of caution?

[kamane18]

I guess I more want to make sure that I wouldn't be making things worse for DS by NOT getting the final two shots? I know that NONE would have been best - but are two shots actually worse than 4? Does it put him at increased risk for BOTH the 7 shots strained AND the replacement ones? Ugh...