Thomas Jefferson Ed

[kittywitty]

I keep hearing about this but I still can't find a good synapsis on this method. I can't get the books from the library and at over $20 for one book, I am not so sure I want to go and buy it without knowing more. Can anyone give me some good info on it or share about using it?

[theretohere]

I know that there are posters on the Well Trained Mind board who use it- you may want to ask there. It's not as common as some of the other curricula I've seen.

[Momma Aimee]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

I keep hearing about this but I still can't find a good synapsis on this method. I can't get the books from the library and at over $20 for one book, I am not so sure I want to go and buy it without knowing more. Can anyone give me some good info on it or share about using it?

could you make an IIL request.

we are rural and our local Lib has next to nothing, but i live on IIL. going to pick one up this morning actually

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by Momma Aimee

could you make an IIL request.

we are rural and our local Lib has next to nothing, but i live on IIL. going to pick one up this morning actually

We live on interlibrary loan, too. Dh is a professor so I can get books from any college in IL, but NONE have this book.

[Mommy&Will]

Have you checked out the web site?

http://www.tjed.org/tjed/intro

I did read the book, and found it inspiring. I would like to own it someday - its a book I could often reference.

[haleyelianasmom]

I just returned it to the library today. I have mixed feelings on this book. i only skimmed it, but I get the basic premise. It is based on the education Thomas Jefferson received from George Wythe and the author is a professor at George Wythe University (which I think he started himself). Here's the wikipedia of the university: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wythe_University

It basically promotes leadership education through reading the classics and it has a big list of the top books to read: http://www.schoolofabraham.com/gwc100.htm

You can get it through http://www.paperbackswap.com/. I don't think they currently have any copies available, but you can put it on you wish list and wait it out. I'm currently getting rid of a whole bunch of my books from when I was a teen and I put a bunch of homeschooling books on my list

ETA: I just checked the book swap and there are 160 members who have it on their wish list (86 for the paperback) so it might be a while...

[completebeginnings]

I follow this loosely. Very classically based with a high patriotism focus. DeMille did start a University but he has degrees from several others. It has worked well for us. I like the emphasis on a few things:
You not them-it really focuses on you getting your education and your children will follow your example.

and

Structure time not content- If you structure the time to learn the content can be chosen by the children and they will never loose their love of learning.

The website posted before basically outlines the book well. It is hard to find used since most people who buy it want to keep it for reference. It works well with other methods often.

[lach]

Originally Posted by haleyelianasmom

I just returned it to the library today. I have mixed feelings on this book.

Would you mind expanding upon that? I'm curious. It's not an educational philosophy I know much about.

[haleyelianasmom]

My daughter is only 4, so it's hard to picture our homeschooling relationship when she's older, but it seemed very structured and I think we have a lot to gain from newer works as well, plus I'm not sure if it allows for interest-based learning quite as much as I would like. I'd have to read the whole book to get a better feel for it, though.

[PGTlatte]

I borrowed the book from the library - so I don't have it as a reference to refer to. But the main ideas I took from it were "you not them" meaning the kids see the parents setting the example of reading classics and pursuing their own learning, "inspire don't require", and to read classic books and learn from them.

I didn't find much in there in the way of ideas to get our reluctant 6 yo reading and writing. But, I took these ideas to heart and started reading a few classics for the first time in my life. I cliff-noted these in high school and never had to study classic literature in college (engineering), so this is a whole new world I've stepped into. I am doing this for my own learning, but perhaps someday it will be helpful with my homeschooling efforts as well.

I think that when our kids are a little older and the oldest is further off the ground as far as reading and writing go, I will be able to use more of the ideas from the TJEd and Charlotte Mason approaches.

One idea about getting the book - see what used copies are selling for on Amazon or Half.com. If you buy it, read it once, and decide you don't want to keep it, you can sell it for the going used rate. If the used cost is close to the new cost, you can make a lot of the money you spent on the new book back. If the used cost is quite a bit lower than the new cost, you can just buy it used in the first place, and still resell it when you are done with it.

[lach]

I'm looking on Amazon now, and I'm somewhat confused. Theres "A Thomas Jefferson Education," and "A Thomas Jefferson Education at Home." What's the difference? Should one read them both, or can I just skip straight to the TJE@H one? Where does the third one in the trilogy come in?

I have to admit that I've seen them at the bookstore and they always seem kind of... I don't really know how to describe it. But something that should be right up my line (man, do I live for educational pedagogy... you have nooo idea what a sucker I am for this sort of book) and every time I pick it up I say "this looks really weird. WTF is this?" and put it back. And I don't know why. I'm even all about the classics (though I understand this is a bit more unschooly than the kind of stuff I'm usually drawn to). There's just something vaguely crackpotty about the author that I can't quite place, in the little bit I've read. And i know that's unfair, because I haven't actually read the books. But still.

But this thread is inspiring me to look closer. I think I still can't quite bring myself to buy them (and the used prices on Amazon.com are almost as expensive as the new prices!) but I'm definitely going to look for them at the library.

[dotnetdiva]

I'm kinda interested in this... I just got done reading Well-Educated Mind and she mentions Jefferson a lot, and I know there's a few people out there who have a TJE-inspired homeschool.

Setting an example by reading the classics yourself is definitely something I can do now.

[completebeginnings]

The author is a bit crack potty. And he has a strong following but really he just took what a bunch of other people(Piaget)(Charlotte Mason)(Montessori) have seen done (George Whyth was Jeffersons mentor) and put it all together. If you can read it with an open mind and not get too put off by the strong patriotic note (very conservative and against big government is the political mindset of most of the people who use this method) it has a lot of good guide lines. They also do push their seminars(which cover many of the classics and extensive studying of the constitution etc.) and college but I just ignore it. All of the stuff can be done on your own and they are ok with that. The group I belong to is very open and accepting.

The website listed before outlines it best but here is the basic breakdown:
http://www.tjed.org/tjed/intro

Ages 0-8 Core phase-child stays with parents and learns from them. How to take care of the home, make good choices, right from wrong etc. There in NO academic push. If the child has a sincere interest in academics you can let them lead but independent reading and math etc. is almost avoided until the child has a sincere interest. Lots of reading done by parents to the children. Very unschooly. Many children are just starting to read and work on academics by the end of this phase.

Ages 7-12ish-Love of learning phase: children are exposed to many different forms of learning. All child led. You structure the time say from 10:30 to 12. But the child fills it will approved activities exampleorkbooks, math, reading, drawing,cooking, nature study etc. Academics are still not pushed. The point in to keep the child interested in learning and loving it rather than resenting it with a lot of time left for play and helping around the house.

Ages 12-18ish- Scholar Phase- this is where a lot of academic work comes into play. Still just structure time but not content. They learn from classics and established works. Sometime a commonweath school is established. They learn from mentors in the community.

I have seen beautiful things happen with this method but you have to trust in the process that only a person can learn you can not make them learn. My kids are still young but they have just blossomed as have I. I have learned so much studying the classics (and classics can be new books but they need to reach a high caliber if that makes since) and studying my own interest which is midwifery.

The ultimate goal is to have children that grow to impact the community around them in a positive and thoughtful way whether that be a doctor,politician, mechanic, artist, parent or Mcd's worker.

As I said I follow it loosely but really like it so far. It works well with CM and Montessori and unschooling. Many of them use Saxon math.

[lach]

Thank you so much for the info completebeginnings. I am getting more and more intrigued and now want to read the book.

Of course, not a single library in my network apparently has the book! Which is really, really surprising as my library is part of a HUGE network that includes a few colleges, at least two with education programs. So I may end up having to buy it after all!

[racheldemille]

Free TJEd Resources

You can preview a pdf of select chapters for free, including a description of the various TJEd titles and reader reviews here.

You can also download free audios about basic TJEd here.

And questions regarding TJEd can be sent here.

Finally--I agree Oliver's a crackpot, but probably not in the way you meant.

Most people that know him personally, or who are well-versed in his actual writings, think he's pretty okay.

Thanks for the very nice write-up; it's well done!

xoxo rd

[kittywitty]

Thanks for the write up. I know a couple years ago, maybe, I was researching TJEd and remember reading some very crackpot-y stuff and some very right wing conservative stuff that put me off of it (not meaning to offend anyone! Just not up my alley!).

But I'm sensing a change here at home and while we currently unschool, I like the feel of this right now. If only I had the money to buy the book now!

Rachel, thanks for the links. I was reading through the Phases of learning free sample and ingredient #38 is a central book. Anyone using TJed who isn't Christian care to share their book? Other than Harry Potter I can't think of one.

Ok, another edit here. There seem to be four options here. Which is the best to get?

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Jeffers...3503654&sr=8-7

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Jeffers...3503654&sr=8-1

http://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Edu...3503654&sr=8-5

http://www.amazon.com/Thomas-Jeffers...3503654&sr=8-3

[RiverSky]

Though I think some of the ideas in TJED mention are great (almost-unschooly), proponents of it tend to be very political, in a Glenn Beck sort of way. Occasionally, I look at the front page of the TJED site and woah, the racist crap I've seen listed as current "threads" in the forums. Major Obama bashing, not just disagreeing, you know, really offensive stuff.

Also, something that no one else has mentioned is that Christianity is one of the top principles required, according to the books, which will work nicely for some, and not so much for others.

There is also a fair bit of book censorship endorsed. I'm paraphrasing, but they don't just request classics, they actually say that certain classics should not be read by you or your children. It has something to do with wanting happy ending for the books, where the protagonist/hero wins.


One of the things that really bothers me about TJED is how much it focuses on the 12 and up crowd finding mentors to teach them. They don't want you to find just anyone to mentor, you want to find an expert to mentor you. I just think it's a very elitest thing to require/request and it leaves out a majority of the population (even amongst homeschoolers) as they would have a tough time to find a willing mentor, especially if they are in a lower income area or come from a less-educated family or social circle. It annoys me.

[kittywitty]

Originally Posted by RiverSky

Though I think some of the ideas in TJED mention are great (almost-unschooly), proponents of it tend to be very political, in a Glenn Beck sort of way. Occasionally, I look at the front page of the TJED site and woah, the racist crap I've seen listed as current "threads" in the forums. Major Obama bashing, not just disagreeing, you know, really offensive stuff.

Also, something that no one else has mentioned is that Christianity is one of the top principles required, according to the books, which will work nicely for some, and not so much for others.

There is also a fair bit of book censorship endorsed. I'm paraphrasing, but they don't just request classics, they actually say that certain classics should not be read by you or your children. It has something to do with wanting happy ending for the books, where the protagonist/hero wins.


One of the things that really bothers me about TJED is how much it focuses on the 12 and up crowd finding mentors to teach them. They don't want you to find just anyone to mentor, you want to find an expert to mentor you. I just think it's a very elitest thing to require/request and it leaves out a majority of the population (even amongst homeschoolers) as they would have a tough time to find a willing mentor, especially if they are in a lower income area or come from a less-educated family or social circle. It annoys me.

Thanks for this. I think this is basically what I concluded awhile back, I just couldn't remember why.

[lach]

Originally Posted by kittywitty

Thanks for this. I think this is basically what I concluded awhile back, I just couldn't remember why.

Yeah, I think that's what I got from skimming the book in the bookstore, too. It's coming back to me, I think. Kinda made me feel dirty. I'm not adverse to very pro-Christian homeschooling resources, provided I can easily adapt them, but this guy seemed kind of extreme.

[PGTlatte]

We are not Christian, or religious at all....but I was still inspired by the approach in the book. I would say read it and take from it what works for you. Although I don't at all fit into the political or religious "type" that has been described as typically liking this approach, I found a lot that was valuable and helpful in reading the book. Eventually I will purchase my own copy.

There is a Yahoo group for secular TJEd folks:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TJEdSecular/

It seems to be a whole group of people who don't "fit" but still like the TJEd approach.

I haven't come up with a central book....maybe I never will, or maybe one will find me And I kind of like the idea that each person's central book could be one that they find on their own..yeah, that goes along with my beliefs !

The TJEd book did describe some books as being "healing stories", and some being "broken stories".....stories where evil wins, etc. I didn't take this to be a censorship type of idea, but a suggestion to learn from books with a positive lesson in them. I find that my energy and state of mind are influenced by what I read or watch. I like to choose positive things to read and view because I like their effect on my inner state. I took their recommendation of reading "healing stories" in the same way. I have already been doing this with what our kids read and watch. I hope that as they get older and make their own choices, they will prefer materials that are more positive than negative.