UP: How do I show enthusiasm and pleasure without judgement?

[SiobhanAoife]

I've read Unconditional Parenting, and I'm swayed by the arguments regarding praise as a negative when it comes across as the parent judging and grading the child's every action. But where do I go from there?

My daughter delights me -- she's 15 months old, and every single day she impresses me and delights me with new things she can do and say and new capabilities. How do I share my joy in the great job she did figuring something out / building something / getting dressed / using her words / etc. without "praising" her? How is it not showing a judgment if some of her actions make me burst out laughing and smiling and others don't? Right now I'm trying to teach her a million things, too - how do I reinforce with a not-very-verbal-yet little person that she's doing something right if I'm not supposed to be judging her? I do get the idea that when she draws a picture, it does a lot more to smile and be attentive and ask questions and make observations than just to "great job!" her, but what about all the other times during the day when she either:

- masters a new skill
- follows instructions correctly
- does something the safe way like I've been trying to get her to, like getting down off something safely instead of stepping off a precipice
- is helpful
- is just so wonderful that I burst with love?

How am I supposed to convey positive appreciation without judgement, isn't there implied judgement when you appreciate and like something? Shouldn't there be some judgement?

If anyone can recommend a book that embraces the principles of Unconditional Parenting but also includes tons of examples, I would be so grateful. Thank you!

[mamazee]

- masters a new skill: You did it!
- follows instructions correctly: Thank you.
- does something the safe way like I've been trying to get her to, like getting down off something safely instead of stepping off a precipice: Thank you.
- is helpful: Thank you.
- is just so wonderful that I burst with love? I love you!

It's about evaluation used as manipulation. So to say "good job" is a carrot to try to get something done again. It isn't an expression of appreciation. "I appreciate that" is an expression of appreciation, or "thank you". Alfie Kohn is an anti-behaviorist, so you can think about it that way. If it's a behaviorist kind of thing, being used as a reward, then it's the kind of thing he's talking about as "praise". Nowhere in UP does it say you should never say anything nice or joyful to a child, or that you can't express joy, appreciation, or love. Just that evaluting a child to try to manipulate a child's behavior can have unintended negative consequences.

I don't know of any books that would help.

[unschoolinmom]

- masters a new skill: *high five*
- follows instructions correctly: thank you
- does something the safe way like I've been trying to get her to, like getting down off something safely instead of stepping off a precipice: either thank you or nothing if it's done multiple times
- is helpful: just let it happen and when done, thank you.
- is just so wonderful that I burst with love?: I love you...today I actually told my son, "thank you for being mine" and he said, "thanks for being my mommy!" then continued to run over his sister's barbie with his dump truck

[racheepoo]

Originally Posted by mamazee

Nowhere in UP does it say you should never say anything nice or joyful to a child, or that you can't express joy, appreciation, or love. Just that evaluting a child to try to manipulate a child's behavior can have unintended negative consequences.

So agree with this. I actually know a mom who has gone so far out of her way NOT to say good job or give any sort of feedback that her child is constantly searching for kudos from anyone he meets. It's kind of sad, really.

[Wild Lupine]

Originally Posted by SiobhanAoife

How am I supposed to convey positive appreciation without judgement, isn't there implied judgement when you appreciate and like something? Shouldn't there be some judgement?

If anyone can recommend a book that embraces the principles of Unconditional Parenting but also includes tons of examples, I would be so grateful. Thank you!

You can simply reflect back what you see and allow the joyful emotion to be expressed in your tone of voice and facial expression: you put your socks on all by yourself! You worked so hard on that painting! You were so careful climbing down from that big rock, you watched every step and you didn't fall.

I find Non-violent communication the best tool for UP; even though it isn't necessarily a parenting book (though there are books about parenting with NVC) it taught me a language to use to express myself authentically without manipulating or judging or making assumptions.

[Kivgaen]

Originally Posted by SiobhanAoife

- masters a new skill

what about: You did it! You (whatever... got dressed all by yourself!).

- follows instructions correctly

I'd say: thank-you for following my instructions. (or something more specific to what I observe about what they did... like "The entrance looks neat and tidy when when all of the boots are lined up nicely. Thank you for following my instructions". )

- does something the safe way like I've been trying to get her to, like getting down off something safely instead of stepping off a precipice

say: You went down feet fist (or whatever), and you did it all by yourself, without getting hurt!

- is helpful

say: thank you for helping! That made the job go much faster. Now we have more time to play!

- is just so wonderful that I burst with love?

how about: I love you from here, all the way up to the moon, and back again!

How am I supposed to convey positive appreciation without judgement, isn't there implied judgement when you appreciate and like something? Shouldn't there be some judgement?

You want to encourage your children to develop self esteem, but not to put YOUR judgements onto them. You want to help them develop their own judgements, by teaching them what the consequences were of their actions.

By stating what you observe: You didn't get hurt! Look at what YOU did, all by yourself! Thank you for helping -- you made my job easier -- now we can play! Etc. You aren't exactly judging, but you are helping them to learn the impact of THEIR actions, and to help them to connect the dots from their actions to what the consequences are of the good choices they make.

[claddaghmom]

hmm I understand the errors behind good job but what if the family unit does not use the term in that way? I'm always saying "wow!" "what a good job!" "hey you got it!" and I certainly don't mean it to manipulate or encourage her behavior.

[mamarhu]

Within limits, I speak to my children the way I speak to a friend, or expect a friend to speak to me. I don't use a cute, high-pitched voice, I don't exaggerate my enthusiasm or appreciation, but like the others above, I am very likely to say "thank you" or "what a cool painting." I would consider it patronizing or condescending to be complimented for everything I do right. I would feel it is implying surprise or shock - "Wow, I didn't think you could learn to do that". A dear friend is a public school kindergarten teacher. Just before Xmas, our 2 families were baking cookies together. Each time I pulled a tray of cookies out of the oven, wiped down a counter, or washed a bowl, she enthused, "Good job!" My kids and I were rolling our eyes at each other and laughing - we finally had to break down and tell her what was so funny. She really had been totally unaware she speaks to adults in that tone. It was good for a friendly laugh, but really got me thinking about how it feels to be talked to like that.

From a writing by John Holt (sorry, don't remember if it was from a book or his newsletter in the 70's), I remember a story he told of playing catch with an 8 YO boy. He learned that there was no need to praise the kid. If the kid caught the ball, the intrinsic satisfaction was enough; if John caught a good throw, it was obvious that it was a good one. What could he say that would improve on that?

I think that is what Alfie Kohn is talking about. Kids don't need a running commentary about what they can see for themselves. If my little ones got themselves dressed, I would likely smile. Of course that is easier for me than if I have to do it or nag. In that sense, I am being judgmental, because in this context, I do think independence is a good thing. But it is an honest opinion, not a manipulative way to control them or to make them do it again tomorrow.Yeah, on one level they may be doing things to please me. But isn't that part of what love is? To find pleasure in the pleasure of another? My eyes light up at the picture my 7 YO draws for me. I thank him, and find a place to hang it. He doesn't need me to analyze it or fawn over it.

As a foster parent, I sometimes run into kids who need a little time with me, after a thousand teachers and social workers who believe they can bolster a child's self esteem with this incessant praise, to understand my approach.

But I believe self-esteem comes from doing good, rather than being told you are doing good.

[LianneM]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

hmm I understand the errors behind good job but what if the family unit does not use the term in that way? I'm always saying "wow!" "what a good job!" "hey you got it!" and I certainly don't mean it to manipulate or encourage her behavior.

Yeah, that isn't the same it isn't even the words specifically, it's the manipulation, like a pp said. If you say "good job" in order to try to get your child to repeat a behavior, then you would be trying to manipulate them.

Showing delight in your child, appreciating what they do to help or beautiful work they create, and just loving them and being verbal about it are things I do every day.

For the last one my son and I go back and forth with things like, "I love you a million billion trillion!" and things like that

I also often say, "Thanks. I really appreciate that you ________."

For me it's just about being genuine, or authentic, and not trying to use praise or approval to get them to do something.

[Kivgaen]

My husband made a brilliant comment yesterday to my DS, and I just had to share it!

I'll set up the situation: DH and I were folding clothes. We told DD and DS they could help, and stay, or not help, and go somewhere else (because they were disturbing our work). They decided to stay, and do something else, so we kicked them out of the room. I left two towels outside, and said to them "I'll know that you really want to help when these two towels are folded and in the linen closet".

About 20 seconds after we closed the door, we heard DS say "we're done". DH went out and said "let's see!". Of course, the towels weren't folded, but crumpled up in the closet. DS didn't want to show DH what he had done. DH then repeated what I said and went back in our bedroom.

Another minute passes, and then DS says again "done!". DH went out again -- same thing -- "let's see!".

Of course, this time, towels were folded neatly and put away. Now for the brilliant line:

DH said "Wow -- look at how PROUD you are feeling to show me your work now that you have worked really hard this time at folding the towels!".

After that, DS and DD actually helped without complaint with the rest of the folding. I was truly amazed!

[Daffodil]

Originally Posted by SiobhanAoife

- masters a new skill

If she seems proud and excited: "Yay!" or "You did it!" or "That's so cool!" (or even "Good job!")
Otherwise, no need to say anything.

- follows instructions correctly

If you want to make sure she understands she did it right: "Yes, that's right!"
Otherwise, no need to say anything.

- does something the safe way like I've been trying to get her to, like getting down off something safely instead of stepping off a precipice

If you think she might have just randomly happened to do it the safe way without thinking about it, you could point out how well this way worked out and remind her that you'd like her to do it this way all the time.
Otherwise, no need to say anything.

- is helpful

"Thanks! That was helpful!"

- is just so wonderful that I burst with love?

"You're so wonderful! I love you!"
(But not "It's so wonderful when you do that! It makes me love you!")

I think at 15 months you don't need to worry too much about exactly what you say. I also think it's more important to be willing to show love even when you don't like her behavior than to avoid praising behavior you like.

But you might get into the habit of asking yourself, when you feel like saying something that shows your pleasure, WHY you want to say something, and what might happen if you said nothing at all. If you want to share in your kid's excitement, that's great - no problem there. If you want to give her helpful feedback - "Yes, that's the right way!" - that seems fine, too. If you want to make sure she knows how much her behavior pleased you so she'll want to do it again - that's the kind of thing you want to be careful about. If you just want her to know you think what she did is really cool - that's another thing you want to be careful about. Ask yourself: Why is it important for her to know how you feel about it?

[SpiderMum]

Originally Posted by Catherine1972

Yes of course there should be judgment. To do otherwise is ridiculous. Kids need direction. They need to find their place in the world. For that, they look to the parents for a whole host of answers on questions that are necessarily subjective. That gives them an identity. That gives them something to represent that makes them different from everyone else. If you don't give them that as a parent then you might as well just give them up for adoption to someone else who uses the same technique because it simply won't make any difference.

Um...the OP is looking for advice from an Unconditional Parenting perspective. I think a lot of us would agree that there SHOULDN'T be judgment. I certainly don't judge my child and I don't think I need to give away my child as a result.

ANYWAY, when DD does something exciting or masters a new skill we'll say "You did it!" or make a statement about what she did. (e.i. "You put together the puzzle!" or "You built a tall tower all by yourself!")

We also say a lot of Thanks Yous. Not only is it an appropriate response when someone complies with a request or does something helpful...but it also models the behavior. I would like DD to be polite, and the best way to teach her that is to be polite ourselves! I'll also use more specific variations like "I appreciate you helping me" or "thank you for putting away the toys. You helped me clean up!"

[Qbear'smama]

I guess I am still struggling with Kohn's perspective on this or should I say my interpretation of it...I don't want to judge DD, but I do praise a lot, not to reinforce a particular behaviour, just for whatever, being her. I tell her she's great, she's awesome, we love her, tied to things she does (not obeying, but just being her) we want her to know her parents think she is the greatest thing since sliced bread and I guess a lot of "thank you"s or "you did it"s just don't capture it for me. Does that make sense or am I not getting it? For OP's questions, I see how a thank you would work, but in some cases I would probably tell DD she is awesome or that I am proud, because I am, not as manipulation...

[mamazee]

Well most of us either were raised this way by our parents or got it in school during the whole self-esteem movement of the 70s and 80s. So it now comes naturally to us. The thing is that constant appraisals don't actually rasie self esteem. They cause anxiety and a lack of confidence unless people continue getting those appraisals. If it's a new idea to you, keep turning it over in your head for a while, becasue it is a big change from this social experiment of the past few decades.