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How exactly do i retract DS? - Page 2

post #21 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yulia_R View Post
your doctor is plain wrong. it's so sad that most medical professionals in the US are so uneducated about the issue.
if i were you, I'd make sure to tell the doctor very clear that he is not to touch your son's penis ever again.
I'd find a new doctor and find an attorney for your former doctor.
post #22 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugmenot View Post
I'd find a new doctor and find an attorney for your former doctor.
For sure!
post #23 of 38
I'm not sure I'd use soap on his genitals either. Well, especially not a child's genitals and I generally only use soap or shampoo on the hair, and not very often for that. It's very drying to the skin and irritating to membranes, and they clean up fine with water.
post #24 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
Then what is the difference between an adult who can get bacteria under his foreskin and an infant that can? If his foreskin isnt adhered and he is in diapers i would think he would be at an increased risk for infections.
There is no difference between an adult or a baby as far as need to clean under the foreskin. Even a retractable adult has NO need to wash under the foreskin for any health reason whatsoever. It is self-cleaning just like a vagina. The only reason a grown man may want to retract and rinse (for heaven's sake, no soap please!) would be to wash away smegma and oils that can cause odor because in our culture, body odors are taboo. A man doesn't really need to wash under his foreskin any more than a woman needs to douche. This mistaken idea that intact men need to be extra-vigilant about washing or risk infection is one of the main reasons circumcision persists in our culture.
Now, as for a baby who poops in a diaper, the sphincter should keep stuff out and if any poop should get on the "lips" of the foreskin, just soaking in water or using a squeeze bottle to wash away the outside is all you need. (I used my peri wash bottle when changing diapers for both my girl and boy.) Pulling back on the foreskin will only make things worse. "Gentle" as your ped may have been, what he did was inappropriate, bad medical care and could lead to problems.
Hope it all works out for you!
Jen
post #25 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by ErinsJuneBug View Post
Then what is the difference between an adult who can get bacteria under his foreskin and an infant that can? If his foreskin isnt adhered and he is in diapers i would think he would be at an increased risk for infections.
Well, a baby doesn't have sex.

I will disagree with some of the others -- I think the evidence is that washing under the foreskin as an adult does provide medical benefit, in that washing after intercourse reduces the rate of transmission of STDs. I do agree, however, that "too thorough" washing is more likely to cause health problems than simply leaving it alone, in the same way that using soap or douches or "feminine hygiene sprays" is generally problematic for a woman.

In an infant, though, there isn't any benefit to retracting it regularly. I agree with the "leave it alone until the boy is old enough to do it himself" advice.
post #26 of 38
Hi-
This is a little OT for a thread about infant intact care, but I figure this little tidbit might be of interest to someone. I'm an intact 25YO. I was retractable from an early age, and had been cleaning under there with soap for pretty much as long as I could remember. Thanks to reading about this issue I have stopped using soap to clean that area and am instead using just a wet washcloth. I have noticed a significant reduction in the strength of the odor coming from down there, especially when I go a few days without a shower. I've never minded the smell too much myself, but certainly was very concious of it. I used to shower religiously everyday just because skipping a day resulted in being able to strongly smell myself when naked. Now, I can never smell myself without getting in there and giving my fingers a sniff (ew sorry tmi).

Basically, my point is, in my personal experience, using soap and doing what I thought was the proper care to keep myself clean and my personal odors under control, seemed to actually be working against me this whole time. Granted, this is the personal expereince of one adult, but if my intact adult penis can acually benefit from nothing more than very minimal cleaning, I doubt that any cleaning is necessary for the intact penis of an infant, beyond the most basic needs of keeping body waste away.
-Sam
post #27 of 38
I'm not male, but I sure as heck don't use soap down there. I couldn't imagine accidentally getting soap in my urethra, OWWWWW....that and the tissues are so sensitive there, I can't see it being a good thing to wash away all the natural oils and such. So I wash away whats visible, with water only.

Anywho, my 9 year old ds isn't retractable yet. He's never had his foreskin messed with, not even when he was a newborn and in the NICU. And the only time he EVER has a problem is when he uses soap-usually either via bubble bath and just simply washing the rest of his body as soon as he gets in and having soap in the water as a result. Although he is getting older so I don't know that he isn't doing *other* stuff with his junk in the tub Anyway, I just have to remind him every so often to hold off on the soap until right before he gets out, as it'll get red and sore. But it always goes away on its own, he's literally never had an infection worthy of a doctors visit
post #28 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocsNemesis View Post
I'm not male, but I sure as heck don't use soap down there. I couldn't imagine accidentally getting soap in my urethra, OWWWWW....that and the tissues are so sensitive there, I can't see it being a good thing to wash away all the natural oils and such. So I wash away whats visible, with water only.

Anywho, my 9 year old ds isn't retractable yet. He's never had his foreskin messed with, not even when he was a newborn and in the NICU. And the only time he EVER has a problem is when he uses soap-usually either via bubble bath and just simply washing the rest of his body as soon as he gets in and having soap in the water as a result. Although he is getting older so I don't know that he isn't doing *other* stuff with his junk in the tub Anyway, I just have to remind him every so often to hold off on the soap until right before he gets out, as it'll get red and sore. But it always goes away on its own, he's literally never had an infection worthy of a doctors visit
Anytime I accidentally get soap on my inner labia I get a rash.

I wash my son then I rinse him and refill the tub with clear water for him to play in. I never apply soap to his genitals, of course.
post #29 of 38
Hey there mama, I thought I would share this,

My Ds and DH are intact. When DH was a baby his mother was told to retract and "clean" from infancy (I believe this caused some possible mild scaring), in childhood he was told to wash with soap. He has told me that as a child washing with soap "burned" - but he also mentioned he is glad he never told his mother, for fear she may have taken him to a pedi who might have made even more detrimental recommendations. If it hasnt already been mentioned, you should consider giving your pedi some current information on intact care.
post #30 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by intactDS View Post
Hi-
This is a little OT for a thread about infant intact care, but I figure this little tidbit might be of interest to someone. I'm an intact 25YO. I was retractable from an early age, and had been cleaning under there with soap for pretty much as long as I could remember. Thanks to reading about this issue I have stopped using soap to clean that area and am instead using just a wet washcloth. I have noticed a significant reduction in the strength of the odor coming from down there, especially when I go a few days without a shower. I've never minded the smell too much myself, but certainly was very concious of it. I used to shower religiously everyday just because skipping a day resulted in being able to strongly smell myself when naked. Now, I can never smell myself without getting in there and giving my fingers a sniff (ew sorry tmi).

Basically, my point is, in my personal experience, using soap and doing what I thought was the proper care to keep myself clean and my personal odors under control, seemed to actually be working against me this whole time. Granted, this is the personal expereince of one adult, but if my intact adult penis can acually benefit from nothing more than very minimal cleaning, I doubt that any cleaning is necessary for the intact penis of an infant, beyond the most basic needs of keeping body waste away.
-Sam
I appreciate you being willing to share your experience It's not often we get to hear directly from a grown, intact man about his own experience caring for his penis. We can read all the links on the net and probably never hear 1st hand experience.
Thanks again!
post #31 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnmom View Post
It's not really a problem. Technically grown men only need to retract for cosmetic reasons. It takes care of itself. DOn't sweat it. Let him soak in the tub if you're worried. It will gradually loosen on it's own long before he needs to use it. If it doesn't move easily, it shouldn't be moving. Your doc probably squeezed the glans to pull back the foreskin. It probably didn't do any damage, but you're better off just leaving it alone.
That's not really true. A grown man ejaculates, an infant or young boy doesn't. You're not going to clean or wash that off without retracting. And if you're an intact man and you're not retracting to at least run water down there every once in a while, things will get funky.

I understand people want to reinforce that retraction is unnecessary through most of childhood, and that's true, but retraction in adulthood is normal and a function of the foreskin. It's designed to be retracted and replaced.
post #32 of 38
I think it should be mentioned that some men never are able to retract and have zero problems with that. Not sure if they just have a sphincter that is to tight to allow it or if they have adhesions under the foreskin as the cause.

I am sure it is rare since I have only ran across it a time or two in my reading but for those men they do not retract and wash and have no problem with it.
post #33 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by MCatLvrMom2A&X View Post
I think it should be mentioned that some men never are able to retract and have zero problems with that. Not sure if they just have a sphincter that is to tight to allow it or if they have adhesions under the foreskin as the cause.

I am sure it is rare since I have only ran across it a time or two in my reading but for those men they do not retract and wash and have no problem with it.
If an adult man isn't able to retract, that's a defect. That's abnormal and possibly a sign of problems, as you yourself point out the sphincter could be too tight or they might have adhesions. Retraction is necessary to fully expose the inner skin of the foreskin, particularly the frenulum and the ridged band.

Not to mention, during intercourse if you're unable to retract, that's more likely to lead to uncomfortable tearing during penetration. Retraction removes the foreskin from harm's way and allows for normal intercourse. So I wouldn't make the argument that it's "normal" for an adult male to not retract. They can certainly get by, or claim to not to have any problems, (much like some circ'd men do) but that's not the way that part of the body was designed.

Again, speaking as an intact male, if I didn't retract to at least rinse with water down there, I can't imagine things would smell all that pleasant.
post #34 of 38
Thank you for this conversation! Our doctor at DS's 3 yr WC told me to start retracting his foreskin in the the tub - I haven't but I was wondering if it was correct. (The doctor never retracted it in the office and, as far as I know, his foreskin has never been retracted by anyone) I have always stood behind the "clean like a finger" rule. It's good to know I was right to follow my instincts!
post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by mntnmom View Post
It's not really a problem. Technically grown men only need to retract for cosmetic reasons. It takes care of itself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papai View Post
That's not really true. A grown man ejaculates, an infant or young boy doesn't. You're not going to clean or wash that off without retracting. And if you're an intact man and you're not retracting to at least run water down there every once in a while, things will get funky.

I understand people want to reinforce that retraction is unnecessary through most of childhood, and that's true, but retraction in adulthood is normal and a function of the foreskin. It's designed to be retracted and replaced.
But Papai, you are saying that ejaculate needs to be washed away or else things will get funky. Funky, as in smelling real bad. And not wanting to smell bad is a cosmetic reason to wash. Leaving it there won't gain you any friends - or dates - but it won't give you any diseases or infections, either.
Don't get me wrong, I like a fresh-smelling crotch as much as the next person, however I would like to dispel the myth that is rampant even among those who are against infant circumcision that it is an either-or thing: either you circumcise, or you have a lifetime of needing to scrub out under that foreskin. You can choose to not circumcise, but you had better be vigilant about making sure your kid/teenager washes or else he will get all kinds of infections and diseases.
I'm sorry, but that is just not true. All an unclean crotch leads to is funk. And circumcised men get just as smelly if they don't wash. No one ever got infections or diseases from smegma, oils, urine, or their own semen. (Poop, of course is a different story. That does cause urinary tract infection and if poop gets under the foreskin it should be washed away. Although in the case of a young child, the sphincter will keep any poop out of the preputial space, even if separation is beginning.)
I just think it really hurts the cause when well-meaning but misinformed parents say that it is wrong to circumcise to avoid infection (they've got that part right) because you can avoid infection by washing, washing, washing (that's where they are wrong.) I think it just reinforces the notion that the foreskin is gross, dirty, and leads to disease - makes people think, if it's that much trouble and requires constant cleaning to avoid infection, maybe it is better to get rid of it.

As for avoiding disease by washing after intercourse, I would think that would equally apply to women and to circumcised men. If you can wash away a virus before it gets into the cells and infects them... I would like to see the studies that were done on this. How soon after intercourse must you wash? Should soap be used and if so what type? Do the women have to wash up inside the vagina to see the protection, or just wash the vulva? How long does it take for different viruses to actually infect the cells (i.e. what is your window for being able to wash it away?) Does this washing offer the same amount of protection as condom use? If you use a condom, does washing after intercourse offer additional protection versus just using a condom? - I have a lot of questions about the mechanics of how that all would work. Any leads on where to read the studies I would really like, thanks!

Jen
post #36 of 38
i've always read that it's necessary for a child at some point to retract his foreskin, and that it's safe to take for granted that it typically happens once he becomes an adolescent and begins to "discover" himself.

definitely another area, i gather, where open and ongoing parent/child discussion is necessary and beneficial.
post #37 of 38
Yep you talk to your ds just like you talk to your dd. For my dd I made sure to tell her when she wipes to do so always from front to back and so far I havnt needed to tell ds to do anything because as soon as he gets in the bath he starts playing with it so it gets plenty clean that way
post #38 of 38
Give him info on the proper care of the intact penis and get a new Dr.
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