i NEED her to fall asleep independently

[readytobedone]

basic background: DD is about 2.75. she has her own bed, own room, and we are fine with her part-time co-sleeping. she usually but not always comes into our bed during the night.

not only do we have to stay with her for her to sleep, but it takes upwards of an hour every. time. she does fall asleep more quickly if she doesn't nap.

(dropping the nap is not entirely an option because she goes to daycare 3 days a week, and they aren't going to actively keep her from sleeping. they will wake her early, though. what we do at home is lie down at that same time, read books, and get up if she doesn't fall asleep, which she typically doesn't. at daycare, she goes to sleep easily.)

given all of this, i really need something to change. tonight i flat-out told her, "mommy can't lie here anymore." and i told her if she would lie in bed by herself and fall asleep, she could have chocolate tomorrow

she lay there long enough for me to get out the door, then wailed and came with me. i sent DH back up with her because i just could. not. do it.

here is her daily sleep schedule:

up around 8
nap at 12 (for no more than 1.5 hours)
go up to bed at 8, lights out by 8:30

my thread title may be somewhat inaccurate because what i really need is EITHER her to fall asleep quickly (i am fine reading books, nursing, then staying with her for 10-15 minutes) OR her to let me get up and leave her there.

so...what can i do to make this happen? bedtime is the most miserable part of my whole day

[LadyCatherine185]

Have you read the book Sleepless in America? It has some great tips on structuring your day to help induce sleep easier.

One thing I would try is (if her usual bedtime is 8-8:30) making the house dark and quiet around 7. And when you go up to her room, do the stories, etc and keep the lights to a minimum during this time. Then make sure it is pitch black, and try some white-noise or a CD of soft music. She may need more "down time" to unwind without stimulation before going to sleep.

I would also make sure she is getting plenty of play/run/excersize time to get her really tired out.

[rzberrymom]

That seems to me like a lot of sleep for an almost 3 year old--could it be that she's just not quite tired at 8:30pm?

[buttercups.nest]

If it were me and my daughter....

I would be napping her more close to 1pm. I find that napping at 12 is too soon and she won't sleep. Naptime for us is usually 1-1:30pm. Getting close to age 3 I imagine nap time will be more of a quiet time for my daughter.

As far as getting her to sleep...I would say get a routine going on. Before bed I warn my daughter...5 more minutes, then time to get ready for bed. Brush teeth, brush hair then upstairs. Clean diaper, pajamas, then bedtime story. Tell DD that after her story you will lie with her for 10min then it will be time to go. If she gets out of bed and follows, take her back to bed. Lie her down, say it is bed time etc, leave the room.

I know crying sucks, and I am certainly not suggesting CIO, but I don't know of a way to get her to sleep cry-free. There are a few odd times when my daughter cries at bedtime....I sit down beside her bed, rub her hair, and calmly talk to her. That always works...but she's my easy child! My son is breastfed, cosleeps, and is a bit more attached to me than my daughter is....so I tried to imagine what I would do when my son is almost 3 and we're going through the same thing. If there is a cry free way I'd love to know too

Good luck!

[Maluhia]

I think the fact that she does not fall asleep when she's not at daycare tells you that she is at the age where she's dropping her nap and the days where she takes one will be much much harder to get her to fall asleep at night.

[ktmeyer]

I'd invest a few nights to gradually wean her off of you laying with her. Do your routine, story, etc, then sit on the edge of her bed and pat her back for a few minutes, then just sit there. Don't cuddle anymore after that time, but be there so she isn't scared. Sit there until she falls asleep, without cuddling. Maybe bring in a book with a booklight so you don't go bonkers

Then after a night or two of that, move a chair into her room, or sit on the floor by her bed, so after the story and patting her back you sit in the chair and read your book until she falls asleep. If she cries explain that you are right there, and she needs to go to sleep. Don't interact too much. Remind yourself that she isn't scared, you are right there, so there is no reason for her to cry. Then after she adjusts to that for a night or two, start sitting farther and farther away, closer to the door. Then what i did was to sit there a bit, then get up and say I had to check on something and I'd be right back, and I would come right back. When my son was ok with that, I'd stay away a bit longer, saying I was just out in the hall, until he really didnt need me there anymore.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by Maluhia

I think the fact that she does not fall asleep when she's not at daycare tells you that she is at the age where she's dropping her nap and the days where she takes one will be much much harder to get her to fall asleep at night.

yeah. i know. i just wish there were some way to regularize her bedtime a bit more. it's way too hard on everyone when sometimes she is zonked by 7 and other times she is running around at 10:30, yk?

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

That seems to me like a lot of sleep for an almost 3 year old--could it be that she's just not quite tired at 8:30pm?

yeah, she's not tired at that time if she naps.

but if she doesn't nap, she is plenty tired even earlier and will sleep 13 hours (with a few, usually brief, wakings).

also, since she doesn't STTN, i think that makes the actual time she "sleeps" for a bit longer than it would be otherwise. if that makes any sense -- because she's not really asleep for all of it.

[snarky]

I have a similar problem with my three year old daughter. She used to be able to sleep independently, but regressed after Christmas.

I have had good luck with the Sleep Lady's Good Night Sleep Tight book. This was three days holding hand at bedside until sleep, three days sitting by door until sleep, three days sitting outside door until sleep, and now I am sitting by the fire until sleep (yay). This is basically ktmeyer's approach.

I am reinforcing the good nights with a sticker chart with highly desirable stickers for nights with good sleep behaviour.

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

yeah, she's not tired at that time if she naps.

but if she doesn't nap, she is plenty tired even earlier and will sleep 13 hours (with a few, usually brief, wakings).

also, since she doesn't STTN, i think that makes the actual time she "sleeps" for a bit longer than it would be otherwise. if that makes any sense -- because she's not really asleep for all of it.

I remember reading that they get more bang for the buck from a nap, so if they take a 1 1/2 hour nap they may feel as refreshed as if they had 2 or 2 1/2 hours of sleep. So, it makes sense that she'd be tired after 13 hours without a nap, but maybe 13 hours with a nap is not really feeling equivalent to her and making it harder for her to fall asleep?

[rzberrymom]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

yeah. i know. i just wish there were some way to regularize her bedtime a bit more. it's way too hard on everyone when sometimes she is zonked by 7 and other times she is running around at 10:30, yk?

Ugh, I remember those days! My DD was exactly the same when she was dropping her nap.

[readytobedone]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

I remember reading that they get more bang for the buck from a nap, so if they take a 1 1/2 hour nap they may feel as refreshed as if they had 2 or 2 1/2 hours of sleep. So, it makes sense that she'd be tired after 13 hours without a nap, but maybe 13 hours with a nap is not really feeling equivalent to her and making it harder for her to fall asleep?

i never heard this before, but it's really interesting.

[ssh]

Originally Posted by rzberrymom

That seems to me like a lot of sleep for an almost 3 year old--could it be that she's just not quite tired at 8:30pm?

I agree with this. I think 10 to 12 hours total sleep in a day is normal for that age. If your DD slept from lights off and took a hour and half nap she'd sleep 13 hours a day. At 3 my DD slept 10 to 12 hours a night, and generally could fall asleep after being up 13 hours. Now at 4 it's after 14 hours and she sleeps 10 hours a night. If she falls asleep and naps she just falls asleep the amount of time of the nap later, so a 2 hour nap means she's up 2 hours after expected bedtime. With the 7 or 10 going to sleep times, it sounds like napping is doing something similar to your DD's bedtime. We gave up naps at 27 months when she started needing to be up at least 8 hours to be sleepy. It was an annoying couple of months during the transition. We were still co-sleeping at 3, but my DD wanted to sleep in her own bed a couple months ago. So we read stories and then I tell a couple after nights off. DD falls asleep during stories, but if we try it before she's tired (been up 14 hours) she just talks and then needs to get up for snacks and stuff.

[Kuba'sMama]

Personally I don't think it's a long time to sleep at all. My six year old routinely needs 12 hours of sleep. Every child is different. That being said, we did cut out the naps pretty early, like at 2.5 years. Although, to avoid the "too tired to sleep" debacle we put both our kids to bed ridiculously early when they were giving up their naps, like 6 pm! Any later and we found them to be at that nasty second wind... the one that only ends in one way; a massive meltdown.

[fastyfeet]

Just another idea: I've found that a very effective tool for dealing with any major transition or issue is making a book. Write the story of her whole bedtime routine from your daughter's perspective, making sure to include her feelings ("I feel safe when Mama is with me at bedtime. Sometimes I feel sad when she is gone.") And be sure to include options for how to deal with these feelings ("When I feel sad, I can hug my bear. I can suck my thumb...) Include your feelings ("When Mama lies with me for an hour, she feels frustrated.") Have a happy ending ("I wake up happy and rested! Mama is also happy because she had time to herself at night.") Illustrate it with pictures or photographs. Read it all the time and talk about it.

You'll need to make a plan (I would do something like ktmeyers) and then use the book to implement the plan.

Good luck!

[Nillarilla]

my ds is almost 4 and for a while he would go to sleep on his own but not anymore no way. I hope more tips come your way.

[Kailey's mom]

Subbing... I havent' even put any thought into my dd actually being able to fall asleep on her own yet, and she'll be 4 yrs old in May In our case, I think sensory things get in the way. Is 3 the average age a child can fall asleep on their own? My dd has NEVER done it

[mumkimum]

Part of what I've done (though we're not quite at dd falling asleep totally independently) is I have a few bedtime activities that she can do by herself without me in the room while I am either getting ready for bed, having a bath, or reading in my room. This is stuff like a notebook for "writing", some dry erase marker books, magnet board activity things. She'll sit in bed doing them herself if I feel like she's not sleepy enough for me to bother sitting with her. When she really is sleepy enough, she'll come get me and ask me to sit with her and go to sleep pretty quickly. Sometimes I'll check and she's put stuff away and started to fall asleep herself, I might sit for 5-10 minutes (and yeah, we were previously mama lays there for 1-1 1/2 hours bedtimes which totally sucked, so I feel you there).

We've also used calms forte for kids remedy at times, which has seemed to help dd relax (she gets very wound up and has always fought sleep), and sometimes will do some sleepytime yoga stuff before bed instead of me just reading books and sitting there forever .

Anyway, hope you come up with something that helps. It's much nicer not dreading bedtime.

[coffeegirl]

Originally Posted by readytobedone

yeah, she's not tired at that time if she naps.

but if she doesn't nap, she is plenty tired even earlier and will sleep 13 hours (with a few, usually brief, wakings).

also, since she doesn't STTN, i think that makes the actual time she "sleeps" for a bit longer than it would be otherwise. if that makes any sense -- because she's not really asleep for all of it.

Sounds like it's time to lose the nap. Some quiet "resting" time might be better, if she still needs that.