Strategy for flipping dh's opinion without him knowing it - Page 2

[Dev]

As an assertive, mature male with common sense, I wouldn't tell your husband anything but the Direct Truth and the Facts you have researched which allows your son NOT to have his prepuce amputated at birth or during his entire childhood. This is because it is only your son's decision to amputate a normal part of his penis that provides protective, sensory and sexual functions. Any ill feelings, resentments or "problems" your husband experiences because his son's penis is left intact and not surgically altered, is your husband's problem which he is responsible for resolving. In time, he will eventually come around to accepting the fact that you left the "circumcision decision" to your son. He might never agree with it, but most likely it will become a non-issue in time.

Stay strong mama, and just let your husband know that there are some things in life you are dead set on, and allowing your son's prepuce to remain intact is one of them! It really is that simple... and it should be. Your son's (and daughter's) right to genital integrity overrides a parents request for non-therapeutic genital cutting of their children. The vast majority of parents in the world "get it". Sadly, most parents in the USA don't have the same mindset or understanding to date. Educating and talking about the topic helps a lot.

[A&A]

Originally Posted by Quirky

Obviously you know your dh best, of course, but I am always leery of a "compromise" that may result in your son getting cut. Unfortunately I know too many men who were perfectly willing to jump through whatever hoops their wives set up as long as they could get their way in the end and get their sons cut. For many men, the cognitive dissonance of having to face up to their own losses far outweigh any qualms about seeing their babies in pain. For them, small pain now == big gain for babies, not to mention they can continue to rationalize to themselves how it's no big deal, it's better, etc. and so forth.

And I advocate going back and reading the link that Night Nurse posted.

[erin23kate]

Originally Posted by K703

Here's a good compromise: Leave your DS intact until he is old enough to decide whether or not he wants to be circumcised, and if he wants to be cut (chances are very good that he won't) then your DH can support your son's decision then.

This. Here's your compromise. Your son gets to make this decision for himself when he's old enough. It's nonconfrontational and you're not making a statement about circumcision being right or wrong - you're just saying that it shouldn't be YOUR call or your husband's.

Barring that, postponing the circ is a way to go; the longer you postpone, the less likely it is that your husband will care. Still... it's a risk.

[mntnmom]

It's not about your husband's need to cut your son, or your need to keep him intact. It really is about your son's right to weigh the decision himself. And he obviously won't be able to do that anytime soon. So, you have to leave him intact, because he can't put his foreskin back on later!!

[claddaghmom]

Bein a bit blnt today b/c I'm NAK but it seems like maybe you're enticing him w/ the possibility of circumcision if he agrees to read some stuff.

That's treating him like a child....

Ok in other words, he's acting like a child and you are responding on his level. I mean, this is a permanent surgical decision for his child...and he won't read anything? IMO that is a big flag flying and it says "I have issues and they are bigger than my son right now." (Which isn't to pass judgment on him put to point out that HE needs some attention).

So you want to have an equal partnership...well I don't see any equality if you do all the research, all the reading, all the thinking, and he just sits there with his fingers in his ears going 'lalalalala' but when you get to the negotiation table he has equal say?

Is it your inner desire for an equal partnership...or is there some emotional tweaking going on here? Has he expressed a desire to make an equal decision here? Are you putting that on him? Who is doing what exactly?

[tammylsmith]

Hi again posters. Thank you for the thoughtful responses and heartfelt ideas. I think there have been some excellent points made here. The equal partnership thing has just been an unspoken way of living for the two of us. We still have fights of course, but we also are really well tuned to each other's ideas. Its hard to explain exactly, but we just do things really well as a team. Dh and I have a similar career background and similar ways of viewing the world, so we are simpatico in general . In fact, this is a very jarring situation precisely because it is so out of character. I agree with previous posters that he must have some deep issues, because he is very childish in his responses, which just isn't like him. I never had any intention of having ds circ'd, and I think dh understands that... I was just trying to make it less of a WIII battleground. I think dh wants to close out the facts I am presenting because it shakes his world up and makes him think about things that are uncomfortable.

I am encouraged because we have been able to have micro-conversations about circ on a friendly basis, like today, when I pointed out that circ as an older child/teen/adult would seem to be so much easier for the patient, with fewer risks of surgical complications because, besides it being their choice (duh!), there is no open wound in a diaper, surgery is performed by a specialist and there is a larger body part to work with. It was not met with resistance or an argument, more like a thoughtful pause, and then we went on with our dinner after some joke about moyls (no offense to moyls intended). It seems that pushing more on the personal choice front, and doing it a little here and there seems to keep the walls from coming up. I think by gently presenting things in a less threatening way, I can allow the child in him (yes, he was acting like a child and I guess I was treating him like one), who is obviously hurting, to let go of the anger. As he becomes acquainted with his intact son, I am truly starting to believe this will no longer be an issue, and he will see my side of things clearly. I feel bad for him that this was done so long ago without his consent, and that it makes him question himself now, but all I can do is support him, love him and listen while showing him that there is a better way and not backing down so that my son will not ever have to deal with those feelings. Sorry this is long again, but there were so many well thought-out points that I wanted to address.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

Hi again posters. Thank you for the thoughtful responses and heartfelt ideas. I think there have been some excellent points made here. The equal partnership thing has just been an unspoken way of living for the two of us. We still have fights of course, but we also are really well tuned to each other's ideas. Its hard to explain exactly, but we just do things really well as a team. Dh and I have a similar career background and similar ways of viewing the world, so we are simpatico in general . In fact, this is a very jarring situation precisely because it is so out of character. I agree with previous posters that he must have some deep issues, because he is very childish in his responses, which just isn't like him. I never had any intention of having ds circ'd, and I think dh understands that... I was just trying to make it less of a WIII battleground. I think dh wants to close out the facts I am presenting because it shakes his world up and makes him think about things that are uncomfortable.

I am encouraged because we have been able to have micro-conversations about circ on a friendly basis, like today, when I pointed out that circ as an older child/teen/adult would seem to be so much easier for the patient, with fewer risks of surgical complications because, besides it being their choice (duh!), there is no open wound in a diaper, surgery is performed by a specialist and there is a larger body part to work with. It was not met with resistance or an argument, more like a thoughtful pause, and then we went on with our dinner after some joke about moyls (no offense to moyls intended). It seems that pushing more on the personal choice front, and doing it a little here and there seems to keep the walls from coming up. I think by gently presenting things in a less threatening way, I can allow the child in him (yes, he was acting like a child and I guess I was treating him like one), who is obviously hurting, to let go of the anger. As he becomes acquainted with his intact son, I am truly starting to believe this will no longer be an issue, and he will see my side of things clearly. I feel bad for him that this was done so long ago without his consent, and that it makes him question himself now, but all I can do is support him, love him and listen while showing him that there is a better way and not backing down so that my son will not ever have to deal with those feelings. Sorry this is long again, but there were so many well thought-out points that I wanted to address.

Glad you are making progress!

I think you have the right idea about dealing with the issue from a personal choice standpoint. It can hurt to talk about the loss from circumcision. And maybe make the person feel insecure or defensive.

[tammylsmith]

as an aside, I think he is working through things privately because it is hard for him to admit that a pretty major choice was made on his behalf, and maybe it wasn't as necessary as he has always assumed. As far as I know, he said that he wants to do research on his own, but I think, based on how he has responded lately, that there is a shift happening on its own. He, like I, naturally question authority and the order of things (usually). I think up to this point, circumcision just was something that was done. I can't say I gave it much thought before coming across this board, but then I had a daughter first. Now that I have the knowledge that has been passed on to me from these boards, I will work to pass it on as well.

[PuppyFluffer]

I am so glad to hear that he is having a shift in regards to this.

I can only imagine what it must be like to learn that your body has been modified and it isn't an improvement. I think of this often when I read discussions about husbands and my heart aches for the emotional journey they go through. I have said it many times, the pain of circumcision has so many ripples to it. It radiates out and effects many.

He sounds like such an open and willing man. I wish you both luck in coming to a resolve with this.

[DocsNemesis]

Honestly, I'd find a *good* (and by good, I mean with full sound, no hiding the pain and procedure, etc.) circumcision video and I would MAKE him sit down and watch it with him. I know how horrible it is, I do, but think about this-if he's sitting there watching this, and then seeing you in tears (or worse), how do you think that will effect him? I know there is no way my fiance could watch the video AND have me bawling next to him and still say he wanted it done.

I also agree you don't have to have him on board 100%. My 2 sons are already intact, so I think that kind of helps (he sees a non-circ'd penis daily!), but he still doesn't entirely understand my reasoning. He asked me when we found out I was preggo-this is his first-if I would circ and I said no, absolutely not. He asked why and I told him simply that its not recommended anymore and it hurts. I can't put my baby through that knowing that there's no benefit. He got a little defensive there and I again just simply said hey, when we were kids, they still thought that there was a benefit to the procedure and almost all boys were circ'd...I wouldn't hold that against your parents or you or anyone.

He still thinks it looks funny-somewhat understandable from a guy who's never even seen an intact penis until my ds. But he also knows that not nearly as many boys are cut today and that the boys being born now won't be seen as weird or something. I mean, where we live the rate is about 30% cut...meaning the intact boys outnumber the circ'd ones.