used to sleep through the night, now no more, marriage suffering

[zomigi]

My DD is almost 13 months old. She was never a great sleeper, but over the course of several months, using the No-Cry Sleep Solution, we got her to learn to go to sleep on her own, both at night and for naps. Yay! So I think around 9 months to 11 months she usually slept through the entire night (7:30 pm to 7:00 am) in her own crib without waking.

Then, when she was 11 months, we went to visit my parents for Thanksgiving for two weeks, and her sleep has been messed up ever since. She can still usually go to sleep by herself, but occasionally needs to be held to sleep. But now she'll wake multiple times during the night and want to be held. She often will just lay in your arms wide awake for 15-30 minutes. When she does fall asleep, you'll have to hold her for another 15-30 minutes before putting her down, otherwise she'll just wake right back up. DH and I are often up with her from 1 am to 3 am, going through this cycle.

Sometimes you can get her to back asleep by laying her back down and rubbing her back, but she often wakes up as soon as you take your hand off her (even if you very very gradually stop rubbing and then very very gradually lessen the pressure of your still hand on her back), or as soon as you get to the door. So after a few cycles of this we just end up picking her up, because it's physically impossible to lean over her crib rubbing her back any longer.

I don't know what to do next. The NCSS things we did before aren't working now. My DH is really fed up with it and wants to just let her cry it out. I don't want to do that, but the lack of sleep is causing really serious marital problems between us, so I'm considering it, because marital problems are definitely not good for DD either! Does anyone have other ideas of things to try? I'm desperate for something concrete to propose to DH as a plan.

[AmyKT]

I wish I had some advice, but we're going through the same thing with our 26 month old, who also regressed after holiday travel. My DH keeps wanting to let her CIO, too, but it doesn't work anyway (I know after desparate nights) so we either end up holding her til sleep or taking her to bed with one of us (umm, me) while the other sleeps in a different bed. Not fun, and it's stressing us, too.

I hear people talking about standing by the crib and talking softly and patting their backs without picking them up (oh-- rereading -- you've tried that too), but when I've tried that, DD either scales the crib and me or nearly pulls me into it with her. Just. doesn't. work.

You have my sympathy. I hope someone can help. We've been through phases like this before and have always come out okay after a while, but it never feels possible at the time.

[calgal1111]

We had very similar problems with DD who is now 26 months. We co- slept then had a really hard time getting her to sleep in her own bed.

At 15 months we decided to put her in a big girl bed ( I had a spare full mattress, a twin would work too) she was an early walker (9mos) and climber. I got an extra long bed rail and put the bed up against the wall on the other side.

What I did was I would lay with her in there until she went to sleep. In the beginning it may take a few nights of spending most of your time sleeping in there but slowly you will be able to remove yourself completely and everyone gets more sleep.

zomigi you may want to put the mattress on the floor and a gate at the door for now but AmyKT you can probably get away with just a bed rail.

Good luck I hope this helps, it worked for us.

As a side note I don't put the flat sheet on the bed only the fitted and a blanket or comforter I am afraid she'll get wrapped up in it.

[zomigi]

calgal1111, thanks for your suggestion. I guess you're saying being out of the crib might help DD? But I'm not sure I understand how. Can you explain please? Thanks very much!

BTW, DD also started walking at 9 months. But I can't imagine her staying on top of a mattress without crib rails to stop her from walking off to go play. She's really really active. :-) Luckily, she hasn't yet made any attempts to climb out of the crib.

[kriket]

hum... I may be in an anti-man mood, but what is your DH saying?

Is the lack of sleep just making both of you cranky and straining your marriage?

[calgal1111]

What I am saying is laying down with her might help her to go to sleep and I have tried the whole crib mattress on the floor thing to do this and it is really rough. And a bigger bed that will accommodate both of you may help everyone to get a better night sleep.

This worked for us but only you can decided if it would work for you. I totally understand how a lack of sleep can put strain on a marriage. Good Luck.

DD is super active but the only thing she has ever done when she got out of bed was seek me out. Our daughters sound like they could have been identical twins she was an awful sleeper now I hardly recognize her. So it will get better.

[LadyCatherine185]

Sounds to me like a sleep regression from your trip, plus maybe teething (especially the wide awake for 2 hours in the middle of the night thing) and developmental. A LOT going on at 12 months.

Babies sleep patterns progress and regress all the time. Even if you do CIO and it "works" you will have to redo it when there is another regression.. and there will be.

My suggestion is to do what you need to do to get as much rest as possible and not try to change your DD. You need to follow her lead and meet her needs, and right now she is telling you that she needs you or your DH at night. You could try NCSS again, since it is at least gentle sleep training, but I know that it is a lot of work.

Your DH is a grown man, your daughter is a baby. He can meet his own needs, but your daughter cannot. Leaving her to CIO because your husband wants you to is cruel, IMO.

What we have done that have helped us all get more rest (and trust me, my DS has always been a terrible sleeper, up every 1-2 hours <or more> all night every night) are these things--

*bedshare and nurse laying down through the night
*DH takes the "morning shift" (usually from 6-7:30) before he goes to work so I can get a little more rest
*I take naps with Liam
*DH takes DS out on a "date" every saturday morning until about 10 or so and I get about 3 hours of extra sleep
*Making sure to wear DS out during the day so that he is tired at night

Your DD will STTN again one day, when she is ready. She is so young now, and this is such a short time in her life. Obviously the decision is yours, but you need to decide whether meeting the needs of your daughter (who cannot meet her own needs) or the *wants* of your husband is more important.

[zomigi]

Thanks everyone.

I guess the issue is that I don't need convincing, my DH does, and I'm not sure how. I could just give up and tell him, fine, you sleep, I'll just do all the night wakings (which lots of moms do anyway, I've found, scarily). But I'm not sure I can handle it physically. I need help during the night. DH is not a horrible person and never wanted to do CIO either. But he's just tired out, literally and figuratively.

DD co-slept with us for the first few months, but then she got to a point where she wouldn't go to sleep with us anymore. She just wanted to play. Sometimes if you get her deep asleep while holding her in the chair, you can then move to the bed and carefully lay down with her and she'll stay asleep. But she usually wakes up and starts playing around. She almost never falls asleep to begin with while laying down with us. So I don't think co-sleeping -- either with her in our bed or with me on a mattress with her in her room -- will work for her. She wants to be held with me/DH sitting up, not cuddled next to us laying down. I don't know what the difference is, but apparently there is one to her. :-)

[rocketgirl96]

Well, my son is a terrible sleeper too. He always has to be nursed or rocked to sleep and he still wakes up several times at night (he's almost 2). I really haven't found a good solution to his night wakings, but I have found something that works so that he doesn't wake up when I transfer him to his crib. A Sleep Sack! Yup! I have found that they really have helped keep him asleep during the transfer. Whenever he doesn't wear one, he wakes up as soon as we lay him down in the crib, just like your daughter. They're about $20, which might seem expensive but it's not so much that you couldn't try it to see if that might help.
Also, I don't know how you're laying her down in the crib, but around that age, my son wanted to sleep on his side or his stomach. So, I'd flip him onto his side when I transferred him into the crib. That seemed to help him sleep longer too.

HTH,
Christine

[dividedsky]

hugs, i feel your pain. one of my boys wakes up in play-mode at night occasionally. one night i decided - forget it - i'm done - i'm going to sleep and he can do what he wants (on a mattress on the floor, in a baby-proofed room) before i could actually fall asleep, ds crawled all over me/the bed for a while... and then crawled into my armpit and fell asleep on his own (he is usually nursed to sleep). i was totally shocked - but it still works. i think that sometimes they just have a burst of energy to burn. have you tried it? my boys sleep in cribs... but i do keep a place to lay with them if they wake in the night (they always do). i try to stay awake to transfer them to their cribs, but it often doesn't happen because i just pass out....

[praisehimau]

So sorry to hear about this. Would you consider cosleeping? It might really help you all to get some sleep. \

[ktmeyer]

you saying that she will sleep if held upright, but not laying down, screams reflux to me.

[zomigi]

kymeter, what I meant is that she will sleep if DH or I is upright, not her. When I hold her to sleep in the chair, I hold her cradled across my body, parallel to the floor, totally flat.

rocketgirl96, the sleep sack idea is interesting. I guess I just assumed she was too old/big for that anymore, but if your son is 2 and uses it...

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

I havent read all the replies, so I dont know if this was mentioned. But could she be hungry? My son is no longer BFing, but having bottles now. One night when I was trying to rock him back to sleep (around that age) I heard his tummy growl. So I gave him a bottle and rocked him and he went right to sleep. He is not a big child at all, and very active, so I have no quams about giving him a bottle if he wakes in the night. (the way I see it, hes burning so many calories during the day, he must need to make up for it occassionally) He gulps it down and goes right back to sleep. Just a thought.

[zomigi]

Barbie64g, we haven't tried giving her anything overnight in several months. The last few times we tried, it just woke her up more. But again, that was a long time ago. I guess it's worth another shot!

Are there particular foods that are best to feed before bed? I think she sleeps best when she gets more carbs than protein/fat at dinner, but I could be wrong. We usually eat dinner around 6, and then she has a bottle of milk around 7:45, and then she goes to bed around 8.

[ammiga]

Originally Posted by zomigi

Are there particular foods that are best to feed before bed?

Yogurt is supposed to be a good sleep aid. We give dd plain yogurt with a little bit of honey or fruit spread mixed in.

[zomigi]

Originally Posted by ammiga

Yogurt is supposed to be a good sleep aid. We give dd plain yogurt with a little bit of honey or fruit spread mixed in.

Good to know. I'll try this soon.

FWIW, she has been sleeping a little better the last few days. We've been focusing on:

1. making sure she gets tired out during the day with more active play and interaction with other kids
2. making sure she doesn't accidentally get two naps (by falling asleep in the car, etc.)
3. having an hour of quieter play before bed
4. feeding her more carbs at dinner
5. not picking her up when she wakes in the night, if possible, but instead rubbing her back or holding your hands on her back

I don't know if these are the things that have caused the slight improvement, or if it's just a coincidence of timing. I'm sure they don't hurt at least.

[mokey4]

We are in a very similar situation with my DD... she used to sleep through the night (anywhere from 7 to 12 hours at a stretch) but she's now 12 months and she has been waking up lots since around 7 1/2 months- since she first learned to crawl. She now might sleep 4-5 hours if we're very lucky, but mostly it's 2-3 hours at a time. And when she wakes up she stands up bolt upright in her crib, and the only way to get her back down is to nurse her down. And sometimes it takes several rounds over an hour or two (she just keeps popping back up as soon as she hits the sheets) and sometimes I give up and bring her to bed with me. She'll sleep ok in bed with me maybe 1/4 of the time- usually she wakes up constantly, either crying or laughing. She often wakes up and starts crawling all over, really excited to see daddy and wants to play. I just keep pulling her down to my breast, and eventually she will fall asleep but it can take forever and I have lost a lot of sleep.

DH works full time and has terrible hours (he teaches an 8am, 1pm, and 8pm class at a community college), so I try not to ask him to do much nighttime parenting. If I get too frazzled he steps in. He gets more sleep than I do, but he still wakes up a lot. He thinks we should do a little CIO... and i'm not sure. See the thing with DD is that she wakes up kinda sorta crying, more like yelling and moaning, making a lot of noise but she doesn't really sound like she's crying for me. When she was younger she used to sometimes moan herself back to sleep, but now she's so loud and she's always standing up and doesn't seem able to get herself back down, so I go in to nurse her. The thing is that once I'm in her room I can't leave until she's asleep, or she'll immediately start REALLY crying. And if I go in there and don't pick her up and nurse her, no matter what else I do, she'll start freak-out crying. So I know there's a difference... and I'm wondering if maybe I should wait a little longer on her not-exactly-crying cry. If it starts to get more urgent or sad I'll tend to her...

But I don't know, what would that solve? Possibly nothing.

Sorry to be rambling, I ought to go to bed.. the baby is sleeping right now.

[To-Fu]

I know you don't need convincing, but maybe you could remind your husband that CIO isn't the magical solution that works where all other methods fail. Everyone I know who has tried it has had to do it over and over again and it has been distressing and traumatic for both the parents and the baby. I know you know this. But maybe your husband doesn't?

I'm glad you have found some interim solutions that are gentle and seem to be working for your family! Keep us updated.

[~Charlie's~Angel~]

Originally Posted by zomigi

Barbie64g, we haven't tried giving her anything overnight in several months. The last few times we tried, it just woke her up more. But again, that was a long time ago. I guess it's worth another shot!

Are there particular foods that are best to feed before bed? I think she sleeps best when she gets more carbs than protein/fat at dinner, but I could be wrong. We usually eat dinner around 6, and then she has a bottle of milk around 7:45, and then she goes to bed around 8.

WE just do a bottle of milk (Or for my son, silk since hes allergic to milk, no soy comments please) except last night, for example, he slept from 730-6, and I had to Wake him at 6. I m trying not to get used to it, because for him, that is VERY rare. the night before, he woke up at 1 and had a very hard time going back to sleep. Usually he sucks the bottle of silk down and thats it for the rest of the night.

He has just started walking, and is VERY active, so we hope this will change things for the better. Good luck! Hope things continue to improve for you.