Paypal claim/dispute

[Galatea]

Well, we had our first problem customer. She ordered $1000 of diapers (should have been my first clue) and then got angry when I put insurance on the order. She begged me to refund her Paypal payment so she could pay with credit card. I said no. She then accused me of not answering the phone - um, we have caller ID, there is a record of her never calling. So there was proof of delivery and she is now claiming that her FuzziBunz one-size are ALL missing the 2nd insert and replacement elastic. Which of course they are not. She filed a dispute with Paypal asserting the diapers were not as described. I was not at the computer when this came in but dh said, "They took $1000 from our account." I then logged on and refused to refund the money and escalated it to a claim, laying out my side. So then as soon as I clicked "submit," it turned the claim to closed and said this:

Hello Pittsburgh Cloth Diapers,

You have chosen to escalate this dispute to a PayPal claim. By ending
communication with the buyer, you are asking PayPal to investigate the case
and decide the outcome. As part of our investigation, PayPal reviewed any
communication you may have had with the buyer in the Resolution Center.

We have received a complaint from a buyer who stated that merchandise you
sent them did not match your original description. The buyer is disputing
the quality of goods associated with the transaction detailed below.

As you may already be aware, PayPal's Buyer Complaint Policy applies only
to the shipment of goods and not to complaints about the attributes or
quality of goods received through an off eBay transaction. Therefore, we
will not conduct an investigation into this matter at this time.

We do, however, reserve the right to begin an investigation within 180 days
if we determine it is necessary.

So does this mean I'm getting my money back? Has anyone gone through this? I offered the woman to send them back (all inserts included) and I would refund her money, minus original shipping, and of course she refused b/c in her lie, there are no extra inserts. It was obvious she was trying to scam b/c she wanted me to change payment after the diapers had shipped.

[SunshineJ]

I haven't used ebay in a while and I know a lot of things have changed, but it used to be possible to dispute directly through ebay if PayPal didn't get something resolved satisfactorily. I'm pretty unhappy with paypal in general- I sent them proof of my name change SIX times and they still can't figure out I have a different last name!

[Quirky]

I think you should be OK. You can always call Paypal and ask.

Be warned, though, that in future if this kind of order is the outlier (and jeepers, does anyone ever order $1000 of diapers in the normal course of business?) you should probably just go ahead and cancel it, because credit card companies will issue chargebacks at the drop of a hat -- you'd have a hard time with a credit card company because they pretty much always side with the consumer.

It almost sounds like you lucked out because she screwed up her claim -- if she had claimed non-delivery or something similar you might have been really screwed.

I hope you get your money back soon!

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by Quirky

I think you should be OK. You can always call Paypal and ask.

Be warned, though, that in future if this kind of order is the outlier (and jeepers, does anyone ever order $1000 of diapers in the normal course of business?) you should probably just go ahead and cancel it, because credit card companies will issue chargebacks at the drop of a hat -- you'd have a hard time with a credit card company because they pretty much always side with the consumer.

It almost sounds like you lucked out because she screwed up her claim -- if she had claimed non-delivery or something similar you might have been really screwed.

I hope you get your money back soon!

Yes, I was an idiot to accept the order, except her previous order went fine and she asked all the right questions, etc. I think what happened was she got greedy and tried to do her first scam and luckily she screwed it up. I have combed my paypal acct and don't see any holds or refunds so I think it is over and she lost b/c outside of ebay, PP doesn't decide on "not as described" claims.

[dogmom327]

I've been kind of wondering about this. I've only had one reversed transaction with Paypal because the person had closed the bank account the paypal account was attached to and thankfully it was only $10--couldn't have gotten luckier on that one. So the only way Paypal will permanently refund money is for non-delivery? That would be awesome since I send DC on everything.

[Galatea]

Originally Posted by dogmom327

I've been kind of wondering about this. I've only had one reversed transaction with Paypal because the person had closed the bank account the paypal account was attached to and thankfully it was only $10--couldn't have gotten luckier on that one. So the only way Paypal will permanently refund money is for non-delivery? That would be awesome since I send DC on everything.

I don't know if that is the only reason, and my case only applies to non-ebay transactions. I did forget signature confirmation, but my scammer wasn't smart enough to claim that.

[CawMama]

I filed a claim w/Paypal one time because i did not receive the goods that I had purchased from a Canadian seller. They put the burden of proof on her to prove that she had shipped it, which she couldn't do. I never got reimbursed because they were going to deduct the money from her account to pay me, but she had no funds. I hope that this works out in your favor. What a stressful situation!

[Michigan Mama]

That stinks. I hope it works out!

[Night Owl]

When you get a Paypal dispute, the first thing I recommend you do is call Paypal and ask them what the appropriate action is to take in your situation. I also recommend that you do not close communication with the buyer.

Instead, inside Paypal, explain to the buyer what they have done, what your policies state and the link to the policies, and why you can't refund/take a return based on your policies.

It sounds like this is what you have done, other than calling Paypal, which I recommend you do.

As for your money, Paypal will hold it (neither of you will have access to it) until they have resolved the issue. If Paypal decides in your favor, you'll get the money put back in your account.

Also, if you have any communications with the client outside of the Paypal dispute, I recommend calling Paypal and asking them if they need those documents. If so, they'll instruct you on how to send them.

Hope this helps!

[spunk]

Paypal changes their policies all the time, but if I remember correctly, if you are able to provide proof of delivery, you should be okay because Paypal does not get too involved with the perception of quality and the claim will end in your favor - just respond to all the information that is requested of you in a very timely and professional manner and in the meanwhile figure out how to cover that $1000 because it might be in limbo for a while if her credit card company gets involved - I had a situation with a much smaller dollar amount and the claim was open for like 2.5 months ... big pain, but that is sadly a part of business ...

[claddaghmom]

Hmm well I hope they have different policies for bigger transactions. B/c the ebay discussion forums do not have a good rate on PP deciding in favor of the seller for SNAD claims.

I had one myself...the buyer bought the wrong coat. Told me she bought the wrong coat. But didn't want to be out money to get the one she wanted. So she filed INAD. I escalated it, provided her emails and an explanation. A week later, I got an email from paypal that they closed the case and refunded the payment to the buyer.


That really, really sucks to see $1000 involved in this. I try to empty my acct frequently to prevent these kinds of things. I didn't over the holidays and already have another problem. A Russian buyer spent a $150 on clothes and wanted them shipped 1st class int'l. He paid 12/05 and filed INR on 1/05. Unless they show up and/or he is honest, he's getting all his money back.

[spunk]

Yea, I know a lot of changes have taken place with Paypal over the years so I don't know ... I recently got a merchant account so don't really deal with Paypal too much and man oh man, it is a million times better!!!

I still get issues with buyers from time to time, but they are handled so much more professionally than how I remember Paypal used to be. If you are doing that kind of dollar volume, you should do what I did and get a merchant account, invest the time and energy into coding a cart that integrates your auctions so that buyers can pay online easily (like how restaurant.com does with their auctions), the money automatically goes in your account and in the long term, your headaches will subside. Maintain your Paypal account for your personal purchases ...

Also know that if this does not end in your favor, what goes around comes around, and even if you suffer a loss here, with your intentions in the right place, something grand will make it's way to you ........

[Galatea]

We did win. Here's the paypal policy:

On EBAY transactions, the buyer will often win the SNAD claim.

On NON-EBAY transactions, the seller always wins. They don't even investigate. They just close it and give you your money back.

The buyer paid with paypal funded, not CC, so she had no other recourse. That is why I knew she was a scammer when she asked to change her payment to CC after it had been shipped.

I, and another affected company, reported her as fraudulent to PP.

[dogmom327]

Great news! This makes me feel a bit better about Paypal.

[spunk]

Yes - congrats!!

[E.V. Lowi]

Oh, thank goodness. I'm so glad to hear it!

[Quirky]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

A Russian buyer spent a $150 on clothes and wanted them shipped 1st class int'l. He paid 12/05 and filed INR on 1/05. Unless they show up and/or he is honest, he's getting all his money back.

That's one reason I don't offer first class mail on international packages....there's basically no tracking and no recourse if they go missing. That, plus it's not supported by PP multi-order shipping and I hate going to the post office.....

I hope you don't get ripped off, mama!

[Galatea]

And now I simply reject all large orders, even if the customer has been fine before. (I had a large one to NZ, the customer was great, everything went well, but when she wanted to re-order, I just told her no.) Also no foreign orders (except Canada.)

[CawMama]

Whew! That's great news!