natural consequence for hitting/pushing baby sister

[bfw0729]

I have 3 year olds that are mostly great with their 1.5 year old sister. Problem is they get wired and tend to pounce on her. I usually approach them and ask, "what happened?" Instead of saying, "did you push her?", that is when I didn't see it happen, but KNOW they did due to baby crying and guilty look on older sibling's face.

I don't like to accuse them of something I haven't seen, but want them to know I mean business and strongly suspect that pushing had occured. I fear they will start lying to me if I ask, "Did you push her?? They say yes and I say, "then you need to take a time-out for pushing your sister." I fear this will backlash into lying and they will deny the incident. Right now, they tell me the truth but don't seem to care all that much about what they did.

This is going to come across as a silly question, but should I put the older sibling in time-out for pushing or hitting the 1.5 year old? I feel there is a better way of handling this. I just don't want them to deny doing it in order to avoid time-out, ykwim? They rarely lie and don't want it to start on account of this type of dialogue.

What I normally say after this type of incident is, "Your sister loves and trusts you and by hitting her, it hurts her feelings and her body/head/etc... Go ask her if she is ok and help her." This is what I do but I feel they do it completely robotically. Also, they're not learning to NOT do it, because they do it again. THere has to be some type of natural consequence to this. Please share. THanks!

[LianneM]

The natural consequence is that the sister is hurt and sad, and you are upset.

Any consequence you impose is not natural. And honestly, I don't believe it would be helpful either. You mentioned you don't want them to deny it to avoid time-out and you are on target there. Consequences don't teach kids that their actions affected anyone but themselves.

I would model the behavior you are describing - go comfort the baby, tell her that it is not ok that she was pushed, and you are so sorry she was hurt and can you help her feel better, etc.

I would also calmly sit down with each 3yo separately and lovingly talk about how we like to be treated, how we feel when we are pushed, etc. This can only happen when you are connected and things are calm. They literally can't learn anything in the heat of the moment so it's not even worth talking about -just model it then.

Also you may need to figure out a way to stay in close proximity to monitor better -and believe me, I know that is nearly impossible sometimes I have a DS who's almost 5, and an 18mo DD and this happens here as well. I've found many times that we can avoid those situations just by me being close by, mainly because I can see situations escalating and avoid the conflict before it has a chance to happen.

Know that their behavior toward the baby is not coming from a logical, cognitive place. Try to find what is underneath it - do they need more connection with you?

Hope that helps some

[moondiapers]

Here's what I do in my daycare....

After I comfort the injured child I say....
"You pushed/hit/bit your sister. You know that it's a no-no, so you will need to stay where I can watch you. I have to keep your sister safe."

Then I grab a basket of toys, and the child that pushed/hit/bit has to stay by my feet while I go about my business. He/She isn't allowed out of my sight for a segment of the day.

[Anastasiya]

The consequence of hurting someone is not getting to be around that person.

If Big Child pushes/hits/hurts Little Child, then Big Child is not allowed around Little Child for a portion of the day. Like the pp said, I'd remove Big Child from the situation.

"Big, you pushed Little? (comfort Little) Big, you need to come up here and sit at the table where I can see you. You cannot be around Little if you're going to hurt her, so you need to spend some time apart and do something else." And if Big gets down from the table or wanders back into the room Little is in, go get Big and bring her back, explaining the consequence again.

In time she'll realize she's missing out on play with her siblings and want to behave better so she can be with them.

[Just1More]

We went through a phase when I just had 2 where the older one would pick on the littler one, but I wasn't SURE what happened. Like you said, I didn't want to trap the older into lying, but I didn't want to let it go, because I was 99.9% sure. You may have limited success with this, but for a while I imposed a consequence if the older one was anywhere near the smaller one and the smaller one screamed or cried. It may seem unfair, but I had a pretty mature 3 yo who was taking advantage of my 1 yo. It worked. . ymmv.

Oh, and like the pp's said, we have a phrase around here, ala Little House: "If you can't be trusted, you must be watched."

[vermontgirl]

Originally Posted by Anastasiya

The consequence of hurting someone is not getting to be around that person.

If Big Child pushes/hits/hurts Little Child, then Big Child is not allowed around Little Child for a portion of the day. Like the pp said, I'd remove Big Child from the situation.

"Big, you pushed Little? (comfort Little) Big, you need to come up here and sit at the table where I can see you. You cannot be around Little if you're going to hurt her, so you need to spend some time apart and do something else." And if Big gets down from the table or wanders back into the room Little is in, go get Big and bring her back, explaining the consequence again.

In time she'll realize she's missing out on play with her siblings and want to behave better so she can be with them.

I think this is great. I would make sure that when the older sibling wants to play with the younger sibling again that they verbally commit to being gentle and making safe choices.

I also really believe in being consistent. If you make them spend time apart because of their negative actions, make sure you distance them again if it happens again. Even if it happens five minutes after they commit to making better choices.

P.S. Try not to parent differently in front of other people. I have had several parents judge me for parenting gently and it is really hard to deal with. Sometimes I feel uncomfortable when I am trying to help my older son out of a funk and other parents are watching because I know they are probably thinking that I am not doing anything and that they should be sent somewhere for a timeout. In fact, other parents have commented that I am not disciplining. I have had to explain that discipline is not always negative and that people don't always have to be sad or angry when disciplining is happening. In fact, there is a better outcome when people feel peaceful and accepted.

[Marsupialmom]

I really think at that age you need to keep them as close as your sanity allows as possible.

Most of those situations are 2 folds. The younger child needing to learn just as much as the older child.

It isn't right that the older child pushed or hit but at the same time he might have been provoked. Which he feels justified in.

This happened with same age children: My son was 3 and started hitting my 3 year old nephew. I was concern because he did not do this at day care, play grounds, et. It was only my nephew. When we started watching closely, as wrong as my son was, my nephew needed to learn a few skills. My son knew how to ask for a toy, majority of time. My son knew how to try to negotate or compromise. My nephew didn't. When this was brought up with my mil and sil they said he was to young. I said ok they couldn't play and had to be kept seperated if both parties were not going to be taught how to behave. It wasn't a week later my mil agree to start intervining and helping my nephew learn sharing. We didn't expect perfection, we were dealling with 3 year olds. BUT working on both sides helped.

I don't doubt your 15 month old does not lack skills that your 3 year old finds frustrating. Put yourself inthe older child shoes. Let say the 15 year old keeps not asking for toys. 3yo gets frustrated and doesn't have the maturity, words, skill to manage the situation. He does a 3yo think and pushes. Then mommy comes in and only corrects him "rescuing the baby". This creates sibling rilveraly.

I am more hoover then reward them with a positive praise. 3yo you have done a great job of sharing. I saw you got mad at 15mth old and you did not push. You should be proud of yourself. Simular words to 15 mth old, praise the positive. You use your words to ask for that toy. As they grow you can move away and back off but not quite yet.

Since you don't know you are better off saying -- lets go play in the kitchen while I finish dishes. I know this sounds bad but in times of frustration acknowledge the situation later. You will have other chances.

Look at ways to find to possitively praise your child when they behave right. My dd 18months bit my son 5ish and drew blood. We debated an ER trip, it was that hard. It was a sharing issue. He wasn't sharing well. But instead of focusing on the negative I wanted to say to him "Well, what do you think would happen when you do that." I said to him, "You were bit pretty badly. I saw you draw up your fist. I am proud that you didn't hit her that took a lot of self control." I focused on what he do right.

[onyxravnos]

just an added note to what others have said.

if they were trying to play or just not paying attention or thinking ahead
(as in they were not intentionally ) hurting her) i think what you are doing is great.

now if they are intentionally hurting her thats a whole other issue and does require some time outs or some other sort of consequence.

[joanna0707]

Originally Posted by LianneM

The natural consequence is that the sister is hurt and sad, and you are upset.

Any consequence you impose is not natural. And honestly, I don't believe it would be helpful either. You mentioned you don't want them to deny it to avoid time-out and you are on target there. Consequences don't teach kids that their actions affected anyone but themselves.

I would model the behavior you are describing - go comfort the baby, tell her that it is not ok that she was pushed, and you are so sorry she was hurt and can you help her feel better, etc.

I would also calmly sit down with each 3yo separately and lovingly talk about how we like to be treated, how we feel when we are pushed, etc. This can only happen when you are connected and things are calm. They literally can't learn anything in the heat of the moment so it's not even worth talking about -just model it then.

Also you may need to figure out a way to stay in close proximity to monitor better -and believe me, I know that is nearly impossible sometimes I have a DS who's almost 5, and an 18mo DD and this happens here as well. I've found many times that we can avoid those situations just by me being close by, mainly because I can see situations escalating and avoid the conflict before it has a chance to happen.

Know that their behavior toward the baby is not coming from a logical, cognitive place. Try to find what is underneath it - do they need more connection with you?

Hope that helps some

this is great advice
if I had two children this is how I'd like to handle this situation

in 'Connection Parenting' Pam Leo writes we should always see the best in our children and speak lovingly, in case a child hits/pushes, a sibling you can say " I know you are upset because the only time you are hurtful to others is when something is hurting you. I'm willing to listen to your feelings"