DH wants meat cooked into charcoal

[laohaire]

So I guess I'm asking if this is a matter of personal preference and no big deal, or if he's correct and I need to be very careful about how done the meat is, or if he's overdoing it and adding carcinogens or something to our diet.

We were vegetarians, me for 10 years and he for 15 years. Last year we started eating meat from local farms only.

I think it sort of makes sense that former vegetarians are kind of paranoid about how done the meat is. I certainly do not feel natural cooking meat yet, and it doesn't seem intuitive to me the way other things are. If I undercook a potato, first, I'm going to know it (too crunchy) and second, it's not gonna kill me!

But DH is almost paranoid about it, from my perspective. He's in charge of pan frying meat, such as hamburgers or sausage. He will cook them nearly black, and then cut them open and if he sees the slightest pinkish HUE he will cook them another 5 minutes.

I'm in charge of all other cooking, and I got a meat thermometer as much to help prevent the overcooking of meat via DH as to help prevent undercooking. But it's still a pain!

Yesterday I roasted a chicken and I followed directions I found online for it - 450F for 50-60 minutes. Now, knowing how DH is, I didn't even question how long - it's automatically 60 minutes, you know? Unfortunately he was running a quick errand and not in the house when I pulled it out of the oven. I carefully stuck the thermometer in the thigh, careful to avoid bone, not go in the cavity and all - and got a reading of 170F, 10 degrees higher than the target 160F for poultry. Done, right? But DH came home a bit later and he's all, gimme the thermometer... I say I already measured it but he wants it anyway. I don't know what happened but he only got 140F and he wants it back in the oven. I refuse, I know you can dry a bird out pretty easily, I already got a reading of 170F, and I don't want to waste the $15 I spent on this tiny bird (long story). Finally he relents and starts carving it, but uh-oh, he found a bloody area near the cavity. He went to the computer and researched it and thankfully came to the conclusion that a little blood was ok (I told him he could carve around it and I'd just dump it in with the carcass for the broth).

Anyway, you can see how meat doneness is a real, real concern for him. And perhaps he's totally right, it's something I need to take more seriously? On the other hand I get a little paranoid about whether eating charcoal is bad for us.

It may also be very relevant to know that DH's grandfather, who was Irish, also demanded charcoal. He ate it every day. Charcoal, potatoes and green beans, practically every night. So it could just be a preference that runs in the family.

Thoughts?

[Irishmommy]

Of course the chicken registered lower for him, it had been sitting out of the oven for a while.

I think your dh is being paranoid. There are also studies that say that over cooked meat (especially bbq) can be a carcinogen.

[mamadelbosque]

Another vote for your DH being highly paranoid. Personally, I think well-done burgers/steaks/etc are gross - hard, chewy and all dried out. Yuck. Chicken does need to be done, but I don't bother w/ a meat thermometer. I just go for the lower temperature and cut into it - if I see a bunch of pink, it goes back in. If not, then its done.

And there are *definetly* studies showing over-done meat is a carcinogen - especially burgers/steaks/etc.

[kjbrown92]

When you cook the meat at high temperatures, like you did the chicken, you are more likely to get burnt on the outside, and raw on the inside. A lower, slower temperature is better. My chicken is roasted at 375F for 1.5 hours for a 3.5-4 pound bird. It's always done, but juicy. When we do burgers on the grill, we always grill them on low. A little bit of pink in a burger is definitely not going to kill you. The carcinogens in the charcoal can. It may just be a matter of what he was used to though, growing up. You're not going to "taste" the meat either. It'll all just taste like charcoal, if it's the meat "taste" that bothers him.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by kjbrown92

When you cook the meat at high temperatures, like you did the chicken, you are more likely to get burnt on the outside, and raw on the inside. A lower, slower temperature is better. My chicken is roasted at 375F for 1.5 hours for a 3.5-4 pound bird. It's always done, but juicy. When we do burgers on the grill, we always grill them on low. A little bit of pink in a burger is definitely not going to kill you. The carcinogens in the charcoal can. It may just be a matter of what he was used to though, growing up. You're not going to "taste" the meat either. It'll all just taste like charcoal, if it's the meat "taste" that bothers him.

I pretty much agree with the above. I do think that you should roast your birds at a lower temperature, then if you want a crispy skin, crank up the heat for the last 10 - 15 minutes. All the juices *should* run clear. He's right about that.

Your meat was cooked through, but the bones weren't. They both have to and your method of high and quick is not going to work for that. I agree with your husband, but only because you're not cooking your bird properly.

ETA: FTR, this is coming from someone who eats her steaks medium and thinks they are overcooked if there isn't some blood on the plate when she cuts into them. Poultry and ground meat are a whole other ball of wax.

[Lilyoftheincas13]

Originally Posted by laohaire

So I guess I'm asking if this is a matter of personal preference and no big deal, or if he's correct and I need to be very careful about how done the meat is, or if he's overdoing it and adding carcinogens or something to our diet.

We were vegetarians, me for 10 years and he for 15 years. Last year we started eating meat from local farms only.

I think it sort of makes sense that former vegetarians are kind of paranoid about how done the meat is. I certainly do not feel natural cooking meat yet, and it doesn't seem intuitive to me the way other things are. If I undercook a potato, first, I'm going to know it (too crunchy) and second, it's not gonna kill me!

But DH is almost paranoid about it, from my perspective. He's in charge of pan frying meat, such as hamburgers or sausage. He will cook them nearly black, and then cut them open and if he sees the slightest pinkish HUE he will cook them another 5 minutes.

I'm in charge of all other cooking, and I got a meat thermometer as much to help prevent the overcooking of meat via DH as to help prevent undercooking. But it's still a pain!

Yesterday I roasted a chicken and I followed directions I found online for it - 450F for 50-60 minutes. Now, knowing how DH is, I didn't even question how long - it's automatically 60 minutes, you know? Unfortunately he was running a quick errand and not in the house when I pulled it out of the oven. I carefully stuck the thermometer in the thigh, careful to avoid bone, not go in the cavity and all - and got a reading of 170F, 10 degrees higher than the target 160F for poultry. Done, right? But DH came home a bit later and he's all, gimme the thermometer... I say I already measured it but he wants it anyway. I don't know what happened but he only got 140F and he wants it back in the oven. I refuse, I know you can dry a bird out pretty easily, I already got a reading of 170F, and I don't want to waste the $15 I spent on this tiny bird (long story). Finally he relents and starts carving it, but uh-oh, he found a bloody area near the cavity. He went to the computer and researched it and thankfully came to the conclusion that a little blood was ok (I told him he could carve around it and I'd just dump it in with the carcass for the broth).

Anyway, you can see how meat doneness is a real, real concern for him. And perhaps he's totally right, it's something I need to take more seriously? On the other hand I get a little paranoid about whether eating charcoal is bad for us.

It may also be very relevant to know that DH's grandfather, who was Irish, also demanded charcoal. He ate it every day. Charcoal, potatoes and green beans, practically every night. So it could just be a preference that runs in the family.

Thoughts?

It's already been proven that meat cooked to the accurate temperature is safe for consumption. For example, the trichinosis parasite is killed off at 140 degrees, so cooking your meat to 170 degrees simply becomes personal preference. You can't kill something twice! And unless there's something basic I'm missing about the facts of life, this would go for any contaminant that is killed off during the cooking process for any food. And my specific example is almost a moot point, because current feeding practices pretty much prevent trichinosis from contaminating our pork meat anyway.

I don't think carcinogens are the worry here, although they can be if all of your meat is burnt black (no matter whether it's burnt on a grill or on the stovetop).

This sounds like it's your husband's personal preference, especially in combination with his family history of liking very well-done meat. And it may also have become a strong belief that this is the only way it's "ok" to eat meat...I've run across a lot of people like that--don't give them anything other than charcoal! And if this is how they like to eat their food, then I am not even going to try to convince them otherwise. That's their right to choose and there's no changing them; it's not even worth the effort, so if his imposing his personal preference on the rest of the family is ok with you, then I wouldn't bother about it. Just let him cook. It doesn't sound ok with you though, so if you're uncomfortable with it because you don't like the taste, then just let him know that you prefer your meat cooked to the recommended temperature (usually stated on the meat packaging) and not above that--ever. Some meat will remain pink inside even when cooked to temp, so cutting it open to check if it's done is not always an accurate way to check. Your husband can nuke his piece of meat, or bake/broil/bbq/saute/his piece of meat until it's done to his liking. You can always cook meat some more, but you can never "uncook" it, so if the rest of the family does not like their meat very well done, then it's not fair to cook the entire meat supply until it's dark and crispy. It's simply about respecting personal choice, and this is an easy one to accommodate in the family kitchen.

That said, yes, you do have to be careful about cooking your meat to the accurate temperature. But you don't have to go above that, for the reasons already stated. And not for nuttin', but a poorly handled baked potato, spinach and tomato salad, or platter of cole slaw---even without the mayo---can still kill you just as efficiently as an undercooked piece of meat. It's more about safety in handling ALL food and avoiding cross-contamination than the type of food you're actually handling. Since cooking meat is a newish sort of thing for you and your husband, perhaps you can take some food safety courses together or just some plain old fun cooking classes and tap into the knowledge base of your teacher. Like a pp said, you can cook meat the wrong way and end up with a blackened carcass on the outside while it's still raw and yucky on the inside. I'm sure there have to be books out there about food safety as well. My only other suggestion is that since you're buying your meat at local sources, educate yourself about how our farms should be handling our meat, dairy and produce, and then go visit the farm! You may feel better about eating it if you get to know the people producing your food. And all rules go out the door when you're eating wild game--that meat does have to be treated differently and should probably be cooked to a higher temp than farm-raised meat, though you'd have to research that as well.

Here's the link to the USDA website about food safety:

http://www.fsis.usda.gov/factsheets/...eets/index.asp

A little education can be a fun family experience and should solve all your issues. Good luck!

[LeahBoo]

I'm a little like him, I'm scared of germs and prefer most of my meat well done (though not burnt).

I don't use a thermometer or cut stuff open, but follow a few rules and my food is never underdone, but it is also never black.

Hamburger: Cook until juices run clear when stabbed with a fork or the corner of the spatula.

Pork chops: Buy very thin chops, crispy both sides (brown crispy, not black crispy).

Steak: I like it medium, so I am no help one this one.

Chicken: I don't cook chicken pieces anymore, I can't do it without cutting them to shreds a billion times to check for doneness. Whole chicken, I cook it until it falls apart. Might be overkill, but I don't care.

For the record, I like my meat (except steak) quite dry. lol

[Drummer's Wife]

well, I like my meat well done, which means absolutely no pink. It's not so much a fear factor, but I prefer the taste that way (DH thinks I'm weird, BTW). I often cook everyone elses steak, and then keep mine on for a few more minutes... again, it's not b/c I worry about getting sick, otherwise I wouldn't serve it to my LO's, yk?

Anyway, I roast chicken once a week, and put it in for about an hr and a half, at 375 degrees.

oh, and I am weird, b/c it's not just meat that I like almost overcooked, but toast, bagels, pizzas, etc., -- not burnt, but definitely done, done.

[beautifulboy]

I was a vegetarian for years but have been eating meat -and loving it!- for nearly as long now. I really have to say that your DH imo is being really over the top here, perhaps he just shouldn't eat meat after all?

I think rare/med rare red meat is the best, anything else is ruined imo. As far as chicken, you do want it cooked, but not overcooked (then it's gross too imo). The thermometer is not necessary, especially for chicken that is raised properly. Also, organic/grass fed/free range chicken tends to have more veings, ie: blood. AND the color of the meat is pinker becuase the animal is healthier, all contributing to the possibility of a part looking questionable when you eat it. Salmonella, etc occurs when the animal is not properly taken care of, so if it's organic/grass fed/free range you don't really have these worries - it's more like in meat coming from factory farms and being send to fast food restaurants that you have to worry about. Have you read Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemna? It's a great read if you're concerned about eating like an omnivore.

[JessicaS]

I wouldn't allow him in charge of any cooking.

Meat is really expensive, there is no sense in it being ruined because he is freaking out.


No harm in using a thermometer, it is used for cooking things perfectly not just making sure all the yucky things are dead.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by velochic

Your meat was cooked through, but the bones weren't. They both have to and your method of high and quick is not going to work for that. I agree with your husband, but only because you're not cooking your bird properly.

It's not "my method" - as I explained in my OP I went online and looked up instructions for cooking a chicken. I don't have a method, I am learning. So while I appreciate the input that suggests cooking at a lower temperature, there is no need to pin the blame on me for cooking "improperly" - what am I supposed to do other than read in a cookbook or online about it? This is my second chicken ever, I have to rely on what I read until I get the hang of it.

Originally Posted by Lilyoftheincas13

It's already been proven that meat cooked to the accurate temperature is safe for consumption. For example, the trichinosis parasite is killed off at 140 degrees, so cooking your meat to 170 degrees simply becomes personal preference. You can't kill something twice!

I think you're referring to the fact that he wanted to put it back in the oven? If so, I probably wasn't clear, I meant more that he didn't BELIEVE me when I said that it hit 170F. He saw 140F and figured I messed it up. He did not think that trichinosis died a horrible death in the oven then came back to life 10 minutes later

Originally Posted by Lilyoftheincas13

I don't think carcinogens are the worry here, although they can be if all of your meat is burnt black (no matter whether it's burnt on a grill or on the stovetop).

The hamburger and the sausage he makes is fairly black. I have gotten in the habit of having him take mine off when it looks ok to me.

Originally Posted by Lilyoftheincas13

This sounds like it's your husband's personal preference, especially in combination with his family history of liking very well-done meat.

Yeah, and that works when he's grilling and he can just take mine off first and grill his to his heart's content. But it's a pain when I'm roasting a bird, since we have to do it one way - his or mine.

Originally Posted by Lilyoftheincas13

My only other suggestion is that since you're buying your meat at local sources, educate yourself about how our farms should be handling our meat, dairy and produce, and then go visit the farm! You may feel better about eating it if you get to know the people producing your food.

Oh, that's all we're doing. Buying meat directly from farms that we visit and are happy with their methods. All pastured, grass-fed (cows), compost-fed (pigs), etc. All living in pleasant conditions, not smelly mudholes. I'm pretty familiar with the farming end (and in fact will be helping a small farm process chickens this spring, for example). My issue is not about feeling bad eating the meat, the issue is just that my husband wants it burnt to a crisp

Originally Posted by beautifulboy

Have you read Michael Pollan's book The Omnivore's Dilemna? It's a great read if you're concerned about eating like an omnivore.

Yes, I've read that and many more books on the whole food system subject. Salatin, Patel, Cotler, Kingsolver, etc.

[laohaire]

Just for those who think I'm crazy for having roasted a chicken at 450F for a hour - yes, I am going to reduce the temp and cook longer, I don't have any attachment to that method, but it's not MY method. I had to look up directions for roasting a chicken and this was what I followed:

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...Chicken-231348

Preheat the oven to 450°F.

...

Roast it until it's done, 50 to 60 minutes.

You might criticize me for not reading 100 recipes before cooking but I didn't see the need... I just looked for a basic "how to roast a chicken" that didn't have a bunch of extras like stuffing, and this is the first that came up.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by laohaire

It's not "my method" - as I explained in my OP I went online and looked up instructions for cooking a chicken. I don't have a method, I am learning. So while I appreciate the input that suggests cooking at a lower temperature, there is no need to pin the blame on me for cooking "improperly" - what am I supposed to do other than read in a cookbook or online about it? This is my second chicken ever, I have to rely on what I read until I get the hang of it.

I think you're being overly sensitive about my comment. "Your" method is the method that you chose. I meant nothing by it. I'm sorry if I offended you. It was certainly not meant to be critical. Perhaps I could have stated it "the method that you used", but I was not expecting to have my words dissected and wasn't thinking along those lines. I certainly wasn't BLAMING you for anything, just offering "thoughts", which is what you asked for. Sorry again.

[velochic]

Originally Posted by laohaire

http://www.epicurious.com/recipes/fo...Chicken-231348

Trying to gently make a suggestion... this recipe is for a 2 - 3 pound farm-raised chicken. That's not much bigger than a capon or cornish hen and the cooking time and temp is probably appropriate for such a small bird. Most chickens are actually 2 - 3 times bigger than that... even the organic whole chickens I buy from my farmer friend are about 5lbs. Are you sure your chicken was no more than 3lbs? I'm not judging you here, I'm just asking if you considered that aspect. Don't take it the wrong way.

ETA: Because for small birds, high and fast can work well, but being on the bone, the bone has to cook, too. Usually that means you need a lower and slower penetrating heat for larger bone-in meats... and then you can use a high heat to crisp up the skin. When there is more mass, high heat will char the outside (and give you the meat temp readings that you want) without actually penetrating the bone and cooking all of the blood out of it. That's why boneless meats cook so much faster and why meats with thin bones (like very small chickens) also cook fast.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by velochic

I think you're being overly sensitive about my comment. "Your" method is the method that you chose. I meant nothing by it. I'm sorry if I offended you. It was certainly not meant to be critical. Perhaps I could have stated it "the method that you used", but I was not expecting to have my words dissected and wasn't thinking along those lines. I certainly wasn't BLAMING you for anything, just offering "thoughts", which is what you asked for. Sorry again.

OK, sorry. It did seem harsh to be told I was cooking the bird improperly, especially when I was upfront that I was new at it and looked up instructions. But I know you are not really the harsh sort.

[laohaire]

Originally Posted by velochic

Trying to gently make a suggestion... this recipe is for a 2 - 3 pound farm-raised chicken. That's not much bigger than a capon or cornish hen and the cooking time and temp is probably appropriate for such a small bird. Most chickens are actually 2 - 3 times bigger than that... even the organic whole chickens I buy from my farmer friend are about 5lbs. Are you sure your chicken was no more than 3lbs? I'm not judging you here, I'm just asking if you considered that aspect. Don't take it the wrong way.

ETA: Because for small birds, high and fast can work well, but being on the bone, the bone has to cook, too. Usually that means you need a lower and slower penetrating heat for larger bone-in meats... and then you can use a high heat to crisp up the skin. When there is more mass, high heat will char the outside (and give you the meat temp readings that you want) without actually penetrating the bone and cooking all of the blood out of it. That's why boneless meats cook so much faster and why meats with thin bones (like very small chickens) also cook fast.

It was a 3.15 pound farm raised chicken. "Young" chicken, per the label. The only piece of meat I have ever bought from a grocery store (Wild Oats). Not my preference at all but the story of how I chose to buy that is a long one and I won't be buying one like it again. I actually didn't even consider the weight in cooking too much, to be honest, it was just luck (I guess?) that I hit on that cooking method that matched the bird.

The chicken didn't appear to char on the outside at all. Juices ran clear. It was just that when DH carved it, there was an area deep inside that was tinged with blood. Maybe a vein, dunno. It wasn't bloody all over the place, just a line or two of blood.

The chicken was actually quite juicy, so I didn't feel I had overcooked it in any way, but there was that vein or something deep inside. It was in the area of the chicken that I've noticed is pretty greasy anyway, so I just left it on the carcass and dumped it in the crock for broth.

I definitely don't feel knowledgable about cooking any kind of meat, even though I am otherwise a decent scratch cook. And it's just new to me. I have been surprised how quickly poultry cools down, for example. By the time I get it on the table it's pretty much cooled off. And I don't even know if that's a sign I did anything wrong, I just am trying to learn my way through it.

[Marsupialmom]

Invest in a meat thermomator. I live with a chef for husband who can look at meat and tell you what temp it is, and be right. Yes it gets annoying.

1. about a little blood, check the meet source again. Newer chickens and processing will have the blood because the steriod and feeds cause the bones not to get hard and even well cook meat will leach a little red. It should be brown if cooked right.

2. Were are you sticking your therm to temp out? It should not touch bone.

3. http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/bacteria/
•Maintain hot cooked food at 140°F or higher. So once it cooks if it doesn't drop belove that you are OK ---notice the longer it sits in a warmer the more dry it gets.

4. My dh loves food well done. His entire familiy does. He finally just cooks his and our son's longer. He will either toss them in sooner or pull ours out earlier.

5. Dh has learned some people well done is never well done enough....it means charcole. These people see any juice from meat as bad. You will not win. You don't have to eat your meat, flavorless or dry.

6. For me that 450 tempature doesn't seem right. I have never roasted a chicken that way....but there is more than on way to roast a chicken.

[Sk8ermaiden]

I have cooked many, many birds, from cornish hens to giant turkeys, an you will ALWAYS (ime) find that spot of red or two in very deep next to a bone. If the juices are clear and the meat is white, it is DONE! I'm not sure if those are veins or what that just can't find an exit, but it is totally normal.

[Irishmommy]

Originally Posted by laohaire

Yesterday I roasted a chicken and I followed directions I found online for it - 450F for 50-60 minutes. Now, knowing how DH is, I didn't even question how long - it's automatically 60 minutes, you know? Unfortunately he was running a quick errand and not in the house when I pulled it out of the oven. I carefully stuck the thermometer in the thigh, careful to avoid bone, not go in the cavity and all - and got a reading of 170F, 10 degrees higher than the target 160F for poultry. Done, right? But DH came home a bit later and he's all, gimme the thermometer... I say I already measured it but he wants it anyway. I don't know what happened but he only got 140F and he wants it back in the oven.

No matter whether the temp was too high, or the time not enough, the bird was well cooked when the op took it out (so the temp/time were fine). Of course the damn thing cooled down between then and her dh coming home.

[serenbat]

Invest in a meat thermomator.

YES, YES, YES! and learn the proper way to use it- taking a reading in the oven vs outside is very different- also allowing meat to rest (there is a reason for this)-find an old cookbook (JOY of cooking is great to start) and learn basic meat and chicken prep and have you DH read up too.