Medela further violating WHO code - Page 2

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

So calling it breastmilk substitute instead of infant formula would make it alright to give free samples out at hospitals, the drs. and in third world countries?

Apples and oranges, IMO. Medela isn't marketing this in hospitals, at doctors, or in third world countries.

Look, I'm not saying you shouldn't take this on if it's important to you. I'm saying I personally find it all to be petty hairsplitting and I can see it doing a lot more damage than good. Bottles and artificial nipples exist. If the only people allowed to talk about them are the formula companies, we're all in big trouble.

[jeliphish]

I am seriously struggling to figure out what is so bad about this???!!! WHAT IN THE H3LL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WITH A BREAST PUMP??? Um, pump milk. For working moms like me, how in the world am I supposed to get the milk into my baby?? That's right....a bottle and a nipple. Nit picking about this and the WHO code, and the marketing of bottles and nipples is a.b.s.o.l.u.t.e.l.y ridiculous. Marketing their bottles are a necessary part of their breast pump business....if they didn't, I would be like attempting to show how wonderful a right shoe is but it being against some "code" to mention the left shoe on it's own without being along side of the right one. (I know stupid example but seriously this is silly).

And... I recently became a maven and it has been great. I have not only gotten lanolin, breastmilk storage bag, and some other goodies (which I save for new moms) but I also got some information about how to obtain Medela pumps free/low cost for my low income clients who could NEvER afford to get one on their own. I also get several print offs of breastfeeding and pumping resources that are SUPER to pass out to the many pregnant women at my work. I applaud Medela for what they are doing to make breastfeeding and pumping at work a normal thing.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

So calling it breastmilk substitute instead of infant formula would make it alright to give free samples out at hospitals, the drs. and in third world countries?

Seriously?? Seriously, tell me how am I supposed to feed my daughter after I pump my milk? I mean it just seems like the most nit picky argument. Who cares? They have to market a bottle that goes with their product. A product that is exclusively for BREAST MILK.

[annettemarie]

Actually, I just thought of something. I would have a lot more of a problem with this if I lived in a country where everyone was obligated to follow the WHO Code. But we don't. Villifying a company that is very clearly promoting breastfeeding with pretty much every sentence they type because they happen to market and sell bottles and artificial nipples just seems ridiculous to me, like we're going after one of our own. And what happens in the US if Medela backs down? Then we no longer have the idea of breast pumps, breastmilk collection systems, and breastmilk bottles out there in the general public. And what are we left with? Nestle and the other formula companies and a bully pulpit, because heaven knows they don't give a rat's tushie about the WHO Code. Penalizing one of our own just because they're --gasp-- trying to promote their product and make money seems really wrong to me.

[jeanine123]

What I have a problem with is them recruiting moms to come to forums such as the ones here to not only discuss BFing and related issues to to discuss (promote?) Medela products and to then go back to Medela and feed them the links to those discussions. I hardly think anyone who signs up to be a Medela Mom Maven will also include Ameda or other pump manufacturers when they're recommending products. When the discussion about the Medela ads and bottles being featured/pictured on their advertising first happened a year or so ago I was pretty "who cares" about it. But with the creation of this new group with the express intent to target communities full of new and expectant moms I personally feel that it's beginning to go too far down the road of questionable practices when viewed in light of the WHO code. And because of this I felt it would be a good topic of discussion for a forum dedicated to lactivists who may have similar concerns or who may be unaware of what is happening.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

Seriously?? Seriously, tell me how am I supposed to feed my daughter after I pump my milk? I mean it just seems like the most nit picky argument. Who cares? They have to market a bottle that goes with their product. A product that is exclusively for BREAST MILK.

Where have they stated that it's exclusively for breastmilk? Yes, they call them breastmilk bottles but I didn't notice a statement anywhere that says it cannot be used for formula as well.

[annettemarie]

I think social media does open up a whole new host of concerns when it comes to ethics, so I can certainly see where that would give you pause. I honestly didn't get that from your posts before; I thought your concern was the advertising issue.

The whole "let's recruit the mommy bloggers" is a really hot topic in blogging circles and definitely one that bears looking at with a critical eye.

[PGTlatte]

Okay, maybe I'm not so irritated by the Maven thing after all It's great that their program is helping you to help others obtain pumps, and encourage working moms to continue breastfeeding. (I still don't like spam though....)

Originally Posted by jeliphish

And... I recently became a maven and it has been great. I have not only gotten lanolin, breastmilk storage bag, and some other goodies (which I save for new moms) but I also got some information about how to obtain Medela pumps free/low cost for my low income clients who could NEvER afford to get one on their own. I also get several print offs of breastfeeding and pumping resources that are SUPER to pass out to the many pregnant women at my work. I applaud Medela for what they are doing to make breastfeeding and pumping at work a normal thing.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

I am so disgusted with Medela right now. It really sucks when a formerly good company is too wooed over by the almighty $$$.

It's a business. What is wrong with them making a profit? They sell a wonderful product, they employ thousands....who are then able to support their families, which possibly allow the ability for their spouses to stay at home and nurse their LO's till they are 3. etc, etc, etc. It is not criminal, nor immoral to make a profit...

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

I am seriously struggling to figure out what is so bad about this???!!! WHAT IN THE H3LL ARE YOU SUPPOSED TO DO WITH A BREAST PUMP??? Um, pump milk. For working moms like me, how in the world am I supposed to get the milk into my baby?? That's right....a bottle and a nipple. Nit picking about this and the WHO code, and the marketing of bottles and nipples is a.b.s.o.l.u.t.e.l.y ridiculous. Marketing their bottles are a necessary part of their breast pump business....if they didn't, I would be like attempting to show how wonderful a right shoe is but it being against some "code" to mention the left shoe on it's own without being along side of the right one. (I know stupid example but seriously this is silly).

And... I recently became a maven and it has been great. I have not only gotten lanolin, breastmilk storage bag, and some other goodies (which I save for new moms) but I also got some information about how to obtain Medela pumps free/low cost for my low income clients who could NEvER afford to get one on their own. I also get several print offs of breastfeeding and pumping resources that are SUPER to pass out to the many pregnant women at my work. I applaud Medela for what they are doing to make breastfeeding and pumping at work a normal thing.

There are ways to feed a baby that does not include a bottle or a nipple. There is cup feeding, syringe feeding, dropper feeding and finger feeding.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/a...e-feeding.html

Yes, these are more time consuming and no, they aren't as convenient as a bottle and a nipple but there are alternatives and IMO it's a disservice to ignore these alternatives when discussing feeding methods with other moms/dads/care givers.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by llp34

Okay, maybe I'm not so irritated by the Maven thing after all It's great that their program is helping you to help others obtain pumps, and encourage working moms to continue breastfeeding.

And you know, now that jelliphish confessed to becoming a Maven, I''ll confess that I sent away for that free glass bottle. It came with a great booklet about breastfeeding, filled with the same wonderful information that breastfeeding advocacy groups like LLL used to take happily from Medela and give away for free. I gave it to a breastfeeding mama who needed to pump at work. And I didn't think for a second about not including the nipple, LOL!

And you know, I might mention Ameda if I was posting about pumps. I might write about how I would boycott them because of the circ restraints their parent company, Hollister, sells, a far worst crime in my book than advertising breastmilk storage systems.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

Where have they stated that it's exclusively for breastmilk? Yes, they call them breastmilk bottles but I didn't notice a statement anywhere that says it cannot be used for formula as well.

that makes no sense at all...Of course someone could put formula in it. Why in the world would they put a statement in there that it couldn't be used for formula? I am sure they are assuming that if someone is buying a medela product it will be to put breast milk in. It's like buying a water can and saying...."do not put soda in here". Well of course someone "could" put soda in it...but I am pretty sure they are not going to pay the $27.00 to not use it for it's purpose. They HAvE to sell bottles to go with their pumps. And I would really rather buy THEIR bottles and support their company which SPECIFICALLY supports BFing instead of buying bottles made by Nestle which supports the formula business. Seriously...I just seems like people are trying to nit pick just to argue about something.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

There are ways to feed a baby that does not include a bottle or a nipple. There is cup feeding, syringe feeding, dropper feeding and finger feeding.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/pumping/a...e-feeding.html

Yes, these are more time consuming and no, they aren't as convenient as a bottle and a nipple but there are alternatives and IMO it's a disservice to ignore these alternatives when discussing feeding methods with other moms/dads/care givers.

I think it's an equal disservice to brush them off as being merely "more time consuming." Once you are past the age of nipple confusion, barring extenuating circumstances, of course, there is really no reason a baby shouldn't use a bottle and an artificial nipple. Making breastfeeding more difficult than it has to be does nothing to promote breastfeeding.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

It's a business. What is wrong with them making a profit? They sell a wonderful product, they employ thousands....who are then able to support their families, which possibly allow the ability for their spouses to stay at home and nurse their LO's till they are 3. etc, etc, etc. It is not criminal, nor immoral to make a profit...

What's wrong with Nestle making a profit? They're a business who employ millions who try to make a profit.

Yes, I know Medela is a far, far, far cry from engaging in the slimy, dangerous, unethical marketing practices that Nestle has used for decades but if we turn a blind eye now who is to say that they won't consider ditching the breastmilk part of their advertising at some point in the future? After all, there's not much outcry about marketing bottles so why would anybody care if they started distancing themselves from the breastmilk part of things and started to slide more towards the formula part? They're a business looking to make a profit after all and there's a lot more profit to be made if you sold to those who use formula.

[annettemarie]

Originally Posted by jeanine123

What's wrong with Nestle making a profit? They're a business who employ millions who try to make a profit.

Yes, I know Medela is a far, far, far cry from engaging in the slimy, dangerous, unethical marketing practices that Nestle has used for decades but if we turn a blind eye now who is to say that they won't consider ditching the breastmilk part of their advertising at some point in the future? After all, there's not much outcry about marketing bottles so why would anybody care if they started distancing themselves from the breastmilk part of things and started to slide more towards the formula part? They're a business looking to make a profit after all and there's a lot more profit to be made if you sold to those who use formula.

Have they given any indication at all that this is part of some grand plan to slide down the slippery slope to formula promotion? Because in my ten years of breastfeeding advocacy, I've never had the slightest indication that they were anything but 100% behind breastfeeding. Impugning a company that has done nothing but promote breastfeeding on the grounds of a possible slippery slope seems patently unfair.

[jeliphish]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

And you know, now that jelliphish confessed to becoming a Maven, I''ll confess that I sent away for that free glass bottle. It came with a great booklet about breastfeeding, filled with the same wonderful information that breastfeeding advocacy groups like LLL used to take happily from Medela and give away for free. I gave it to a breastfeeding mama who needed to pump at work. And I didn't think for a second about not including the nipple, LOL!

HAHAHA....seriously though, because of the Mavens group I have gotten 3 pumps at almost no cost and given them to 3 teen moms in foster care who would have otherwise given up on their breastfeeding relationship after 6 weeks.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by jeliphish

that makes no sense at all...Of course someone could put formula in it. Why in the world would they put a statement in there that it couldn't be used for formula? I am sure they are assuming that if someone is buying a medela product it will be to put breast milk in. It's like buying a water can and saying...."do not put soda in here". Well of course someone "could" put soda in it...but I am pretty sure they are not going to pay the $27.00 to not use it for it's purpose. They HAvE to sell bottles to go with their pumps. And I would really rather buy THEIR bottles and support their company which SPECIFICALLY supports BFing instead of buying bottles made by Nestle which supports the formula business. Seriously...I just seems like people are trying to nit pick just to argue about something.

If it makes no sense at all then why say it is a product made EXCLUSIVELY FOR BREASTMILK (your emphasis, not mine). That implies that for one reason or another you can not put formula in it. Yes, it's nit picking for some but due to the "Watch Your Language" article that I read a few years ago I've tried to become more and more conscious of both the wording that I use and that others use when possible since it can have such an impact on how someone views an issue or topic. Especially when it comes to discussing breastmilk, breastfeeding and formula.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

I think it's an equal disservice to brush them off as being merely "more time consuming." Once you are past the age of nipple confusion, barring extenuating circumstances, of course, there is really no reason a baby shouldn't use a bottle and an artificial nipple. Making breastfeeding more difficult than it has to be does nothing to promote breastfeeding.

What age is that? I've encountered moms who have 3, 4, 5 and on up month olds who suddenly start to exhibit bottle preferences after a lengthy time of switching back and forth without issue. Using a bottle is easier until you have to deal with a baby who prefers the bottle over you, even after you do everything "by the book" as far as introduction of the bottle, the right bottle being used, etc. Glossing over the potential pit falls and difficulties also doesn't' nothing to promote BFing IMO.

[jeanine123]

Originally Posted by annettemarie

Have they given any indication at all that this is part of some grand plan to slide down the slippery slope to formula promotion? Because in my ten years of breastfeeding advocacy, I've never had the slightest indication that they were anything but 100% behind breastfeeding. Impugning a company that has done nothing but promote breastfeeding on the grounds of a possible slippery slope seems patently unfair.

Not to my knowledge. I wonder if Nestle did before they started doling out free samples in third world countries. Why did Medela suddenly decide to change course and knowingly begin engaging in advertising practices that they themselves acknowledged could be viewed by some as in violation of the WHO code? As you've said, they've been highly supportive of BFing for many years, they of all the companies should know how seriously organizations such as LLL and IBFAN take WHO code compliance and that they were risking alienation of organizations heavily involved in promoting BFing.

[Ellien C]

thanks, 'nette!

I agree with your sentiments about recruiting "mommy bloggers" and how such relationships are not disclosed, but that's another topic. My best friend was very successful with a Whisper Wear pump so I'd never be a "Medela Maven" but I would totally qualify. I told HR I wanted to start a pumping and BF support group in my company and serve as a mentor to other moms.