REAL folate is much better than folic acid - Page 6

[mom61508]

Originally Posted by kl5

Dr. Hyman addressing this very issue.

Great link btw

[WuWei]

Calf's liver is high in folate. http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?t...spice&dbid=129

Yes, this is an informative and comprehensive article from Dr. Mark Hyman, MD, about Folic Acid: Killer or Cure-All?.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mar..._b_601126.html

Pat

[JaneS]

Hmmm, not sure if our beef liver is from baby calves... would that be termed "veal liver"?

[FireWithin]

I'm a mama with a 4 year old with 20 plus allergies and a 7 year old with 6, plus potential asthma, adhd, and anxiety. I'm 21 weeks pregnant. For me, using Thorne products, which contain the appropriate kind of folate, is a small investment. I don't think folate is the entire piece to our health puzzle, but strongly believe that it is a significant piece. If by doing this, and a handful of other things, helps reduce my sweet baby's allergic response, thus reduce my stress and financial burden in the future, I will spend the extra $5 that these vites might cost.
I also eat chicken liver and lentils and greens.

I wish I could say that I've been totally perfect this pregnancy. I certainly haven't and that kind of weighs on me because the stress of having a high anxiety, asthmatic, allergic, messed up tooth kid is strong and much greater than the stress of cooking lentils and liver.

I also see this board as a take the info that is good for you, throw out the rest, or maybe keep it in the back of your head type of place until you are ready for it. The tone of the first poster was to shock. She wanted people to realize how important an issue it is for her. Maybe that turned some people off, but maybe it helped others pay more attention.

So many of us have been told by our GI's, allergists, pedi's that nothing can be done, that our kids will just continue to suffer, that eczema or green poop or asthma is normal, or to keep up the good work of severe restrictions - but no solutions. The best GIs and allergists in Boston literally threw up their hands in response to me saying that they needed to help. Now for me, that was terrifying. I realized I was on my own with my "allergy mamas". Some of us responding positively on this thread have done intense research for the past couple of years, on our own, to discover that things can be done - both preventively and while our children grow. We are just trying to share just one piece of our health puzzle.

[Kidzaplenty]

That is the reason I like threads like this. There is so much info out there to get from all sources. I don't think it is there for scar tactics.

I have very "healthy" children. Three of which that were recently diagnosed with severe allergies (two of those were nearly off the charts with their results), one child that was intollerant to a huge amount of common foods (grapes, melons, chicken, turkey, milks, etc), one child that does not eat hardly anything leading me to believe there are food allergies there, two that would easily be labled ADD or ADHD if I allowed a dx, two that have exema type issues(sp?), three that have skin sinsitivity/allergy to mayo and clorine, as well as five boys and one girl that were all tongue tied at birth (and three of the boys had that little "dimple" thing that was mentioned).

And I have always considered my children very healthy. I have just learned their quirks and work around them.

The idea that a lot of their "quirks" can be traced back to the same cause is quite intrigueing. And gives hope that I may be able to help them have better lives in the future.

[Kidzaplenty]

Now for the important question...






Does all liver taste like liver?

Because I can't stand the smell, much less the taste of liver. Even some meats that are cooked in certain ways have that taste and I can't stomach it.

So, does all liver taste like liver? And if not, what kind is different? And if it is in the prep, please tell me about it.

Thanks!

[pumpkinhead]

Correlation does not equal causation. There is no validated molecular evidence that this is so.

[pumpkinhead]

Originally Posted by WuWei

Whitrow MJ et al., Effect of Supplemental Folic Acid in Pregnancy on Childhood Asthma: A Prospective Birth Cohort Study.Am J Epidemiol. 2009 Oct 30.
Folic acid supplementation during late pregnancy is associated with an increased risk of childhood asthma, increased risk of persistent asthma, and poorer respiratory function in young children.

A study at the University of Adelaide concluded that the intake of folic acid supplements during late pregnancy increases the risk of babies developing childhood asthma by 30%, although researchers emphasized that their finding did not contradict recommendations to supplement folic acid in first trimester, when no additional risk was found.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19880541


Pat

This is a cohort study. It shows a correlation. It is one study that shows a positive correlation. Every time I take my garbage out early it rains. The last 10 times I have put my garbage out early, it has rained. So, can I conclude that me taking my garbage out early causes it to rain? If we can conclude from this particular study that folic acid supplementation causes asthma in children, then in the same way, I can conclude that me taking my garbage out early causes it to rain.

This is a piece of a puzzle. It's not the whole solution.

[Kidzaplenty]

Although that is true (correlation does not equal causation), doesn't the study specify "folic acid" not "folate"? Or are they interchangeable in such studies? (Not that it is important, but just though I would point that out in regards to your post.)


I have many instances where I wonder correlation or causation.

Like my ninth pgcy. I developed pre-E/HELLPs. I was addmitted to the hospital. I was induced with pit. I had directed, forced pushing. Etc. And I was VERY skaky and weak and "slow" for days afterward. I had that "everything is loose" inside feeling that everyone talks about after having a baby.

It all seems "normal", right? Well, it was the only pgcy that I had in the hospital (all others were HB). It was the only time I have had pit or directed pushing, etc. And it was the only time I ever felt shaky, weak, slow, and had that "everything is loose" feeling.

So, I am left with the cause vs correlation of pit/pre-E/hospital birth.


The reason I like to know what people think and to know, even in correlation, is that I can make educated guesses regarding my (and my children's) lives. I can hear what others say and experience, I can watch for similair cause/correlations and can take actions to change things.

I have read TONS of stuff on high b/p regarding "causes" and such. I have worked within those ideas to change my life around them to find answers to my own problems. I have found, that at least for me, many of the "causes" were more "correlations" rather than actual causes. Because they did not alter my b/p at all when I implemented all the necessary changes. But, even knowing that, I have learned a LOT from those correlations. And I have made my life more healthy because of it.

[lil_miss_understood]

So I guess the issue of folic acid no longer applies to pregnancy?

[mama1803]

Originally Posted by Mammo2Sammo

I also see this board as a take the info that is good for you, throw out the rest, or maybe keep it in the back of your head type of place until you are ready for it. The tone of the first poster was to shock. She wanted people to realize how important an issue it is for her. Maybe that turned some people off, but maybe it helped others pay more attention.

So many of us have been told by our GI's, allergists, pedi's that nothing can be done, that our kids will just continue to suffer, that eczema or green poop or asthma is normal, or to keep up the good work of severe restrictions - but no solutions. The best GIs and allergists in Boston literally threw up their hands in response to me saying that they needed to help. Now for me, that was terrifying. I realized I was on my own with my "allergy mamas". Some of us responding positively on this thread have done intense research for the past couple of years, on our own, to discover that things can be done - both preventively and while our children grow. We are just trying to share just one piece of our health puzzle.

Very well said!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty

Now for the important question...






Does all liver taste like liver?

Because I can't stand the smell, much less the taste of liver. Even some meats that are cooked in certain ways have that taste and I can't stomach it.

So, does all liver taste like liver? And if not, what kind is different? And if it is in the prep, please tell me about it.

Thanks!

I hear chicken liver is much milder than beef, and it's got more folate. Search for chicken liver pate recipes, there have been lots around--I haven't tried it yet, but peoples' kids are enjoying it. I am swallowing little chunks of frozen beef liver, it's a lot milder than I expected--it may be calf liver, when I bought it it was listed as beef liver, but the wrapping says beef calf liver. Calf liver is milder than older cattle. Lots of threads in Traditional Foods about hiding liver, or other ways of consuming it.

On a sorta related note, I've found that I don't need to supplement as much when I use cell salts, there's a long thread here in H&H. (I have a few years of ongoing health stuff now and have popped more pills than any five people should need to ).

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by Kidzaplenty

Now for the important question...






Does all liver taste like liver?

Because I can't stand the smell, much less the taste of liver. Even some meats that are cooked in certain ways have that taste and I can't stomach it.

So, does all liver taste like liver? And if not, what kind is different? And if it is in the prep, please tell me about it.

Thanks!

Not sure about the folate in lamb, but lamb liver is waaay better than beef liver.

[aldensmom09]

wow, i'm so glad i found this thread.

my mom's first baby was stillborn at 36 weeks. her second baby was born healthy. her third baby died of spina bifida 3 hours after her birth at 37 weeks. i am the youngest, and healthy.

. i started taking folica acid (as well as prenatal supplements) about 6 months before conception.

i've had 2 missed miscarriages. the first babe i lost at 6 weeks, but needed to take cytotec to complete it at 9 weeks because it hadn't passed. my second pregnancy seemed to be going well until an u/s at 12 weeks showed that babe had stopped growing at 6 weeks, though everything else had continued. with that miscarriage i again needed cytotec, which didn't work, and eventually needed a d&c and a week of IV antibiotics for a huge infection. after my d&c, my uterine lining was still abnormally thick, and my OB said that it had been the toughest d&c she'd ever performed- they though they'd have to do a repeat but didn't.

my third pregnancy was relatively healthy. although i had some cramping and bleeding at 6 weeks (and was sure i was m/c-ing again), things were great until 34 weeks, when i suddenly developed very high blood pressure. by 35 weeks i was having some crazy liver enzymes going on, though still not spilling protein in my urine. i had a partial placental abruption (lots of bleeding) at 35 weeks, was admitted, it was looking like HELLP (and also pre-E, except that there was still no protein in my urine). my blood pressure is normally 105/55, it was 160/95. insane. i ended up being induced (3 days of prostaglandin gel, followed by AROM and pit), and had a baby boy, who was in great shape (just a bit of jaundice) for being early.

my boy is a fairly healthy kid, but i have had to eliminate all dairy from my diet since he was about 2 weeks old- i believe he is intolerant/allergic to casein, he also has eczema and doctors suspect asthma.

i've recently stumbled upon some weston price stuff, have recently read "healing the new childhood epidemics" and just started reading "nourishing traditions" and am amazed by what i never knew. since reading more on this, pieces of my puzzle are coming together so clearly now. so many things related to MTHFR and excess folica acid/ deficiencies in folinic acid... my family history of stillbirth, miscarriage (my sister has also miscarried), spina bifida, placental issues including abruption, pre-E, HELLP, periodontal disease (my mom and sis and i have all had gum grafts)... it is coming together. the whole methylation process. unreal.

i'm really glad to have this forum... it is helping me learn and put together some pieces of my puzzle. a great place for eye-opening. thanks so much to all the mamas and to pat for this thread.

[WuWei]

Yes, unfortunately, your experience is repeating itself and most docs are unaware of MTHFR gene polymorpthisms and concerns with folic acid supplementation. Reproductive endocrinologists and preventative cardiologists are the only one's I've found who are informed about this prevalent issue which can be helped by supporting the methylation pathway with whole food folate, magnesium, zinc, sulfate, molybdenum, methyl B-12.

I started learning due to our son's food allergies and then the puzzle piece of my husband's hyper-homocysteine and then my mom's pancreatic cancer and it all started to make sense.


Pat

[WuWei]

Bumping.

Pat

[WuWei]

[Shawnamarie]

Wow, is this thread still going? I have been so confused by this issue since the way of eating that I espouse contradicts what my doctors (naturopaths) say. My husband and I have been trying to get pregnant for about 5 months now and I've been taking the Thorne brand of Folate every day since then. I also cook and eat liver 1-2x/month. 

However, I just found out that I am pregnant and my ND insists that I take folic acid. I was under the impression from the paleo and traditional foods communities that taking folate was more beneficial than folic acid, but my doctor is scaring me now. I should be good to just continue taking my folate supplement (5-MTHF)  throughout my pregnancy, right? What website/book/resource can I direct my ND to in order to help her understand?

Thanks!

[WuWei]

Tell your ND to read here: http://mthfr.net/

I would take FOLATE, EAT FOLATE. I would NOT take synthetic folic acid supplements.

More info: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK6561/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/gene/4524
http://atlasgeneticsoncology.org/Genes/MTHFRID41448ch1p36.html

There is a bunch of additional research upthread, first page, iirc.

Pat

[Shawnamarie]

Many thanks!