Music Lessons Discussion?

[elanorh]

So we are starting to think more about music lessons for Ina next year (she is in kindergarten this year). We thought being able to read minimally would be good before starting music lessons.

I'd love a discussion about music lessons and instruments - what you and your families chose, and why, etc.

We are probably going to do piano lessons; FIL has the piano that dh grew up taking lessons on, and they live here in town, so we would just practice at their house. Right now, I'm thinking that would work well for helping her focus on her lessons when we're over there, although I do recognize that the hassle of hauling ourselves over there once a day for an hour or so will probably get OLD fast.....

Ina is very interested in violins, which neither of us have any experience with. I think we could find someone who does violin lessons here though.

I had a friend in college who played the harp - she paid her way through a private university with her harp playing skills (she played lots of weddings etc. through high school and college). So harp appeals to me from that perspective but I have a hunch that harps are very expensive from the beginning of lessons 'til the end.

So we're kind of settling on piano because other than tuning FIL's piano, we wouldn't really have any expense; and if she enjoys piano and does well with that, after a few years we could consider moving to violin or something else (as an addition or as an alternative).

Any suggestions or thoughts? Or other ideas entirely that have worked for your families?

[earthmama369]

DH never had music lessons as a child. He's interested, so he took music theory in college and loved it. That led to him becoming a radio show dj at two different universities for a number of years.

Music is huge in my family. My sister and I both took formal music lessons from age 4-17, as well as participating in bell choir and voice choir at the church we attended with our parents. I chose not to pursue music as a career, but it's still a big part of my everyday life and having that resource in high school actually helped me over some pretty significant difficulties in math. (Reading music involves a lot of mathematical calculations, so when I couldn't understand something, I had a teacher who could rephrase it in music terms, and that helped me grasp the concepts.)

We've exposed the kids to a lot of music here. They've been to local concerts, we have 40+ musical instruments scattered throughout our house (most of which they can play with whenever they want), dh has taken them with him to the radio station a couple of times, etc. DD just turned 5, so at her request, we signed her up for piano this morning. I was inclined to start her on a woodwind -- the connection between breath and sound seems so instinctive, I thought it would be a good starting point -- but she's really interested in piano, so piano it is. She's going to be taking lessons for half an hour once a week and practicing 10 minutes or so most days. When ds turns 5, we're going to offer him the same opportunity.

[Laurel]

I used to teach piano (I have degrees in music), and I have to say gently, but honestly, that I would not teach a student who didn't have a piano in their own home. Like you said, the reality of taking your dd to your fil's house to practice would get very old very fast. They need to practice every day, well, at least 5-6 days a week. My experience with my students and now my own child is that it's hard enough to maintain consistent practice when you do have an instrument in your home, it's virtually impossible when you don't.

I've chosen piano for my children because I play the piano and can teach them myselves. I kind of think my dd (currently 3.5) might prefer a stringed instrument, but we'll see in a few years. My ds who is currently taking piano from me doesn't have a preference except that he wants to play guitar, but my understanding is that they need to be a bit older for guitar.

I guess if I were in your shoes, I would probably look into violin since your dd has expressed an interest that way. I think you can rent violins from a music store, which would be much cheaper than buying a piano.

[Monkeypants]

Hi
I teach a music education program for babies, toddlers and preschoolers and often get questions from parents about when and how to start formal music lessons with their kids. It's really important that your child is tonally and rhythmically competent (or almost so) before they begin lessons. This means that they can keep an accurate beat and sing on pitch. Most importantly, it means that they have developed the ability to audiate, or hear melody "in their head". Once they can do these things, music lessons will be much more gratifying for them. There are a few curriculums that focus on developing these, and I don't know about all of them. Music Moves for Piano is one that bridges the gap between a program like Music Together (the one I teach, for littles) and formal piano lessons. It uses a lot of tonal and rhythmic excercises and large movement to get a child ready to play, and focuses on tonality and improvisation. It does not focus on reading music, relying on the theory that you learn to listen and speak musically before you can read (just like language). Although I don't know any specifics, I assume Suzuki method for violin does something similar. Many music curriculums focus on learning to read music and music theory. I can't think of anything that would turn off a kid quicker than making them learn theory right away.

That being said, I cannot stress enough that the instrument they are learning be available to them at all times. An electric piano with weighted keys (very important) is a good alternative if you don't have much room or money to spend. Kids should want to practice their instrument. You should not have to make them. If they're not having fun, it's not worth the money or effort. And there is lots of time for lessons. Your kids are young, and one of the best things for them is to have access to instruments (we have a basket of small percussion instruments like shakers and drums) and music. Singing and playing music with your kids is the single most important thing you can do to instill a love of and interest in music. You don't have to be good at an instrument or a good singer; you just have to be enthusiastic and silly. Check out www.musictogether.com (that's the program I teach). The website has lots of info about how children learn music and how you can encourage them. You can even buy the CD's that we use in class, as well as instruments and props for music-making at home, or find a class in your area, if you want to go in that direction.

Another idea I just had is that you could always learn an instrument with them, of just for yourself, and it would serve as a great example for them. Watching and listening to someone else learn and play is great for kids. They might join in on their own or even teach themselves to play!! The most important thing is to have fun and not make it a chore. Learning to play music has been one of the most gratifying experiences of my life, and it is a gift that your children will enjoy forever. Good luck!!

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by Laurel

I guess if I were in your shoes, I would probably look into violin since your dd has expressed an interest that way. I think you can rent violins from a music store, which would be much cheaper than buying a piano.

I would give this serious consideration. Even though it makes sense to you that she could move from piano to violin down the road, it's hard for a young child to be patient for that. And if they have a love for an instrument, they'll be more inclined to practice.

My ds started violin in K by his request. He loved the violin and no other instrument would pacify him. My previous experience was with piano, so I was a bit intimidated. We found a good teacher that helped him and didn't require that I knew how to tune it or anything.

We did buy his first violin (1/8 size) because it was cheaper than renting, but now that he is up to a 1/2 size violin, we are renting because it's FAR cheaper than buying.

DS is more passionate about violin today than he was at 5 - it has been the one love that he consistently dedicates time and energy towards. I would have never suspected that he knew himself so well, but he did. Just my thoughts.

[Marimami]

DD is almost 5.5, and begged for piano lessons since she was 4.5. Her former Music Together teacher agreed to start her, and it was wonderful. That teacher moved away unexpectedly and it took me a while to find another teacher for her. She's been with her current teacher since Sept., and she is wonderful. DD has really blossomed under her teaching.

We had a piano so it was an easy decision to make. But, I honestly would not recommend piano lessons if you don't have a piano in your own home. DD spends a huge amount of time playing on the piano, and she always has. Even when she isn't practicing, she's making up songs, trying to play songs she hears on the stereo, etc. It's so much a part of her free play time that I cannot imagine that she would love it as much as she does if it wasn't always available.

Holli

[Kreeblim]

Look up Suzuki Violin schools in your area. It's easier near cities and they tend to be a part of college or university music schools. It is a WONDERFUL early music learning technique where children as young as 3 begin working with violin. The theory is that children learn to speak before they learn to read, and similarly children are capable of learning to understand and play music well before they are able to read it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suzuki_method

My two older ones started in the Fall at ages 4 and 5 and the program is run at a local university by their music department. It is quite expensive but we qualified for a good chunk of financial aid, and they set up a payment plan for the rest that works out to be cheaper than traditional lessons. They have a group lesson, then Eurythmics (a fun dance type class that teaches then to hear a beat) and then a private lesson all on the same day at the university. We then practice 20 minutes per day at home with their rental violins.

They LOVE it because it is totally geared towards young kids and is taught totally differently than normal lessons. As they get older the musical foundation they are building will let them branch out to other instruaments much more easily. You might have to hunt around but I can't say enough good things about this method...I feel like I would have a much better relationship with music now if I had been started this way.

[widemouthedfrog]

We're in a similar position. We've just started Kodaly-Orff classes, which are also integrated into the Suzuki program at our local university. They are really fun, one hour long, and the kids explore a number of different basic
instruments. They also play a lot with rhythm and tone. The kids also start learning music by understanding that notes last for different amounts of time and recognizing those notes.

We have a number of instruments in our house (dh and I met in a band) and dd is showing some interest in drums and violin. We may do Suzuki violin next year. It's a parent participation program.

Since she is not all that interested in reading, I'm shying away from anything that requires a lot of music-reading knowledge. I am very much a "by ear" sort of music learner, and my early piano lessons totally turned me off due to the focus on reading and following the music.

[tankgirl73]

I'm a professional piano teacher and pianist -- master's degree in music and years of teaching experience, professional organizations, etc etc.

I concur with the posts above... I would not teach someone who didn't have a piano in their own home. I have tried it, on occasion. It just doesn't work.

First of all, you wouldn't need "an hour a day" at that age. Practice time is more likely to be 15 minutes to a half hour. So schlepping over to grandma's every day for 15 minutes? Maybe not. But that's just the "work practice". Part of learning an instrument is also just being able to play around on it, and that works best when it's not "scheduled" but is initiated by the student. When there's a piano in the house, they can just sit down at it when they're bored and goof around -- either experimenting or playing some of their favourite pieces they'd learned before.

Then there's theory homework -- a good program with a good teacher will have theory homework as well as playing homework. That's just, like, the writing side of things... it might be matching games of matching a picture of keys to the note name, or labelling finger numbers on a picture of a hand, or writing notes on a staff. (Of course, a good program/teacher for that age will begin with "pre-reading" stuff, not just straight onto the staff, but there's written reinforcement work for that too) It's often beneficial to be able to do that with a piano nearby.

And last, but not least, practicing does not have to happen in one SINGLE daily block. In fact, often it's better to break it up into several shorter sessions during a day. With no piano at home, that's not even an option.

Electric keyboards - full size, with weighted keys - are an option. They never need tuning. But an actual good one (NOT the cheap Casios from Walmart, for instance) will cost just as much as a good used acoustic. And an acoustic holds its value better -- selling it 5 years down the line, you'll get a good part of your money back. But an electronic instrument will be out-of-date by then, much harder to recoup costs.

Anyway, just some stuff to think about. I am, of course, biased, I do believe the piano is the best instrument to start with at that age. With the right teacher of course (there are SO MANY teachers out there who have no business teaching piano... absolutely anyone can just decide to call themselves a piano teacher... buy some prefab method books and teach by rote out of those... with no real understanding of how to teach, or how to teach CHILDREN, or how pedagogy matters, etc etc etc).

But the violin does have some advantages as well. Since it doesn't have set keys to press, you have to find the right note by ear. Beginners usually have little tape marks put onto their violins to help their fingers find the right spot, but you still have to find it and hear it... you don't just plunk a finger down and bingo, the note is there and in tune like on the piano. And in terms of the child's size, and muscle strength, a child can do more with a violin at a younger age than they (usually) can with a piano. Pianos don't generally come in 1/4 and 1/2 sizes like violins do.

So I would also suggest you seriously consider the violin at this stage, especially since it's what she's expressed an interest in. Like has been said, you can probably rent one very affordably. If her interest keeps up, then in a couple years you can consider whether you can afford to get a piano in your home -- all good musicians need to learn the piano sooner or later and it does work best when the kid is motivated to do so from their own desire.

There aren't too many other instruments that are commonly started at that age. Wind instruments need more lung power than kids that young can provide, and also most require larger hands as well. Age 9-10 would be a general minimum age for wind instruments -- other than the recorder, of course.

Singing is an option, but again, many teachers won't teach kids that young because of physical developmental reasons. It can actually harm a growing voice to do too much with it -- not talking about just singing in a choir, that kind of thing, but real "vocal training". I once saw a 9yo girl sing in a festival with full-bore operatic voice. It sounded phenomenal. But we knew her voice would be burned out before she graduated from high school...

I digress! If she loves to sing, look for a community choir or something along those lines. And don't disregard programs like Kindermusik and Music for Young Children. They're lots of fun, and while less "intensive" than private lessons, they can spur interest and at least be doing SOMETHING while the grownups sort out a longer-term plan.

[Kreeblim]

To add to the post above if you go with piano, try typing "piano" into Craigslist for your area or the nearest big city. Around here almost 75% of the listings come up with people trying to get rid of a perfectly nice working piano totally for free. My neighbor got one that was almost 100 years old and just needed a tuning. It seems like people don't play them and end up needing the space but don't want to have to move a 500 pound piano...so if you can get some manpower and a truck you could get a really nice instruament for nothing.

[kittywitty]

I also suggest looking for a piano for free/very cheap in the ads or Craigslist. My 9 yo and I started taking violin last year and her having had piano lessons in the past helped greatly. The rest of us are self-teaching ourselves piano (with a keyboard-we are waiting to save up for a piano). My son will start back piano next month, too. I would not take lessons for *anything* without the instrument being in the house.

Since your child is interested in violin, though, I would go with that. Maybe take her to a concert or to watch other kids' lessons to make sure first and then find a good violin in the right size. Good luck!

[goobergrl6]

My oldest DS is almost 6. We just started him with a guitar. It is what he REALLY wanted. Right now he is having lessons with my DH. We are working on getting his fingers tough. Since he has to form the callous on them first to help. So right now he is just working on fingering for that and how hard to press down, parts of the guitar ect. We just got him a little cheap kids guitar for now while he gets all those little basics down then we will move onto something better. I know guitar is not usually recommended for his age because of the finger issue but it is what he really wanted. So we work with it.