Not sure how I should proceed

[RedWoofs]

Hello everyone. I am new. I am posting because I hope to gain insight and figure out how best to proceed in a situation which is baffling me.

My son is 5 yrs old. He was homeschooled up until this year, when he entered a Kindergarten at a private school.

This past week there was an incident. They were lining up to leave one classroom and go back to their classroom. Apparently my son pretended to slay the resource teacher with an imaginary sword, did not make contact but did cause the other boys to giggle, and the teacher was distressed about him making fun of her. Ok. So they discussed it and he was then to lose 5 mins of recess for being disrespectful. ok. She instructed him to inform his K teachers of the incident. He let his teachers know he had done wrong, was to loose 5 mins of recess, but when asked to say exactly what he did, he replied he was too scared. The resource teacher told him not to be scared, i.e. dictated to him, but at no time did any of the 3 teachers acknowledge his verbalization of being scared, attempt to get to the root cuase of his fear, or even acknowlege his fear. When my scared child clammed up, they made it worse but threatening him more and punishing him more. They exacerbated his fear rather than helping him with it. My husband and I are very distressed that they did nothing to acknowlege or assit him with his emotions and thoughts. We don't want our child railroaded or cookie cuttered. We respect him and his individuality.
Do you have any suggestions on how we could proceed?
Do you have suggestions on things we could show the teachers about the importance of being responsive, supportive, etc?
Any materials on attachment parenting or positive parenting which might help in this situation?
We are distressed and don't want to see this sort of situation repeated.
Thank you for your time and consideration!

[BellinghamCrunchie]

It sounds like you are hoping to teach the teachers how to respond more effectively to typical but inappropriate behavior without intimidating, humiliating, or terrifying a 5 year old.

Honestly, if they don't know how to do that already, they aren't going to learn how. You against four teachers? There is no realistic hope here.

Pull him out and find another school or homeschool before he becomes seriously frightened of the school environment and loses the fun of learning.

[RedWoofs]

i guess so?

Yes I guess I am looking to "educate" if you will the teachers. I guess I want to give them the benefit of the doubt and think that maybe they just need it pointing out to them how they were and maybe they'll be enlightened? It's a new program and new teachers so I guess maybe I am hoping they will listen and learn?

You are probably right, me against 4 teachers isn't exactly realistic. Oh i just want to cry.

I feel like my child entered Kindergarten in the best possible way: he has a real love of learning and education. And now to hear that he verbalized he was scared and no one helped him makes me feel like they failed him. And I don't want him scared in school. Certainly not of his teachers.

I actually have looked at another school. It seemed rather lovely. Almost too good to be true, which scares me. I don't want to end up somewhere worse. That school only goes up to 8th grade.
And also distressing to me is my son says he does like his school and doesn't want to switch. Says he likes his friends. Says starting school is hard and he feels he just got the hang of it.

So then i wonder if it would be better to let him stay at his school for PreFirst, hoping this was just a fluke year
OR
move him to a new school for PreFirst, pray it's better, and know that the first school's door will be closed to us come upper school years.

Some people tell me if he is happy let him stay there. Others say move him before things worsen.

All I know is i feel like the school has done more harm than good this year and I'm trying to figure out what to do now.

Thank you for letting me spill it all!
I appreicate the help and listening time!

[eepster]

I would certainly go talk to the teachers before you pull him from the school. I would base whether or not to pull him based on how receptive his teacher is to what you have to say.

Also, it's important to remember, that a child that young isn't always great at reporting what happens. His interpretaion of what happened may have been greatly clouded by his feeling scared and upset. The teachers may not have threatened him with any further punishment, but b/c he was scared he thought they would. He may not have verbalized "I'm scared" the way he did to you; he may simply have stood there shaking his head no.

[AllisonR]

Well, since your son is still positive about it and wants to stay, why not broach the subject with the new teachers, and see if they are open to suggestions. You don't have to take on all four, but talk with one or two about how your son was scared, how he felt, (gently) how you would have dealt with it by acknowledging his fear....

Either they will be open and you will be happier to give the school another try. Or they will be confrontational, which will indicate that switching your son would be a better idea. Or they will react in another way, which will still give you insight into how you should proceed. Good luck.

[RedWoofs]

Originally Posted by eepster

I would certainly go talk to the teachers before you pull him from the school. I would base whether or not to pull him based on how receptive his teacher is to what you have to say.

Also, it's important to remember, that a child that young isn't always great at reporting what happens. His interpretaion of what happened may have been greatly clouded by his feeling scared and upset. The teachers may not have threatened him with any further punishment, but b/c he was scared he thought they would. He may not have verbalized "I'm scared" the way he did to you; he may simply have stood there shaking his head no.

Definitely we will talk to the school. My husband is writing down things we hope to communicate so we can do it effectively.

the day of the incident I got report from my son and the headmaster: their stories match. The day after the incident i spoke with the teacher about who is the main school character in the incident. her story does not match fully theirs, or the one she told to another teacher that day. I suspect some CYA going on there but i could be wrong.


All teachers report that my son clearly verbalized he was scared, repeatedly. And ultimately clammed up as things worsened. Then, mid incident, he said "what can i do to make things better" and did as directed.

at this point, so far, one teacher seems to be open to communication. the others do not.
I feel a bit hopeful that at least one person is talking with us, and one person appears to be hearing us. Not sure if it will matter but i sure do appreciate it.

thank you for holding my hand at what is to me a difficult time!

[3*is*magic]

Originally Posted by eepster

I would certainly go talk to the teachers before you pull him from the school. I would base whether or not to pull him based on how receptive his teacher is to what you have to say.

Also, it's important to remember, that a child that young isn't always great at reporting what happens. His interpretaion of what happened may have been greatly clouded by his feeling scared and upset. The teachers may not have threatened him with any further punishment, but b/c he was scared he thought they would. He may not have verbalized "I'm scared" the way he did to you; he may simply have stood there shaking his head no.

This, exactly. I would not jump to the conclusion that the teachers terrorized or threatened your child before I spoke with the teachers and got their side of the story. Five year olds (I have one in K and a DD in 1st) are not known for their accuracy in reporting, especially in situations in which they may have been nervous.

[SunshineJ]

So the teachers agree that your son told them he was scared? And they continued to ride him about the situation? I don't know which disturbs me more- that complete disregard for a child who is frightened or taking away recess time for something that was unrelated to recess. I would probably have a meeting with the teachers AND the headmaster together and ask about their policies when a child tells them that they are scared. That seems really off to me, but if ALL sides are telling the same thing there, then it seems irrefutably true.

[eepster]

Originally Posted by RedWoofs

All teachers report that my son clearly verbalized he was scared, repeatedly. And ultimately clammed up as things worsened. Then, mid incident, he said "what can i do to make things better" and did as directed.

That is very odd. That they heard your DS and simply chose to escalate matters in that way. It kind of makes the reason he was scared it the first place more clear, if this is the way they usually react.

Have other things happened before? Is this the first time your DS got in trouble? How is discipline generally handled (even if this is the first time he has been in trouble I expect he's seen other kids in trouble before.

I find it rather surprising that a report was sent home from the headmaster over such a minor incident. It's not like he was hurting someone, he was just acting silly at an inappropriate time.

Can you take you DS to visit the other school you're thinking about? He might be more interested in changing schools if he knew what else was available.

[zebra15]

The one thing that is a HUGE red flag for me ( and I'm a teacher and I also HS my child) is the sword. My district (and my home) has a zero tolerance policy on 'weapons'. It can be kindy, it can be high school. So slaying with a sword (especially another person) would fall under this policy.

[BellinghamCrunchie]

Originally Posted by zebra15

The one thing that is a HUGE red flag for me ( and I'm a teacher and I also HS my child) is the sword. My district (and my home) has a zero tolerance policy on 'weapons'. It can be kindy, it can be high school. So slaying with a sword (especially another person) would fall under this policy.

It was an imaginary sword, and it sounds like fantasy play. I think its sad when that sort of thing is considered a huge red flag. I understand that teachers are more concerned about violence in schools these days, but geez... he's five years old!

Worse, they way they reacted (bullying - it was nothing less than bullying) isn't going to contribute to reducing that violence they are so terrified of - if anything, its going to increase it.

[SoulCakes]

It sounds like you have a very bright child for him to be able to communicate so effectively ("What can I do to make it better?") He sounds in control of his own destiny, so to speak.

I think you should follow his lead on this one. Sometimes situations are handled less than ideally, and while you should certainly talk to the teachers and make clear your concerns (and they should reassure you that they will handle things differently in the future), try to keep in mind that no teacher, and no school, is perfect 100% of the time. Your son seems to have a good grasp at how to handle these situations at an early age, and encountering just these kinds of situations is how we learn to navigate the inconsistent and frequently disappointing people in our world.

He says he likes the school. If you feel reassured once you speak to the teachers, keep him there. And, even if you did decide to move to a new school, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to come back to this one in the future.

Good luck! I hope you're able to resolve the situation.

[One_Girl]

Four teachers ganged up on him for pretending to slay a teacher? That is wrong. I think you should talk to the principal about your concern that your son isn't going to be able to feel safe in a school where it takes four teachers to talk to a child about why he shouldn't pretend to slay teachers and where not one of these teachers realizes that four people cornering and threatening one person is scary no matter what age that person is. One teacher would have been plenty and they should have talked to him about the reason behind the rule and assumed the best of intentions rather than the worst. I am sure he was very scared. If four people cornered me and wanted me to admit to doing something wrong I would be scared and I'd probably clam up and maybe even cry if they became aggressive.

[peaceful_mama]

I totally would have informed them that it would be their job to tell my child that he does not need to be scared, he is not going to get punished worse for telling the full story, and then stick to that promise!

That or, why does it matter exactly what he did? He told them he knows he did wrong, he is supposed to lose some recess time, if he has made amends somehow with the teacher he "disrespected" then what is the issue?? that would be good enough for me.

[pigpokey]

I think you are expecting way too much of the institutional environment.

I don't think they traumatized him for life. I would leave it be or homeschool him but don't expect a teacher with X number of students to keep under control to be able to offer him the respect for his feelings that you can. S/he is busy and seriously outnumbered.

5 is not really a big kid yet and 5 became school age pretty recently. You might be happier putting him in school at age 7 or so when he's more of a school aged child.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by pigpokey

I think you are expecting way too much of the institutional environment.

I don't think they traumatized him for life. I would leave it be or homeschool him but don't expect a teacher with X number of students to keep under control to be able to offer him the respect for his feelings that you can. S/he is busy and seriously outnumbered.

5 is not really a big kid yet and 5 became school age pretty recently. You might be happier putting him in school at age 7 or so when he's more of a school aged child.

I've never heard this before. My aunt, dad and most of their peers were starting kindy at age 4, and are amazed some kids aren't going until 6.

[BfBobby]

Originally Posted by SoulCakes

It sounds like you have a very bright child for him to be able to communicate so effectively ("What can I do to make it better?") He sounds in control of his own destiny, so to speak.

I think you should follow his lead on this one. Sometimes situations are handled less than ideally, and while you should certainly talk to the teachers and make clear your concerns (and they should reassure you that they will handle things differently in the future), try to keep in mind that no teacher, and no school, is perfect 100% of the time. Your son seems to have a good grasp at how to handle these situations at an early age, and encountering just these kinds of situations is how we learn to navigate the inconsistent and frequently disappointing people in our world.

He says he likes the school. If you feel reassured once you speak to the teachers, keep him there. And, even if you did decide to move to a new school, that doesn't mean you wouldn't be able to come back to this one in the future.

Good luck! I hope you're able to resolve the situation.

If he still likes it and is happy there then I'd follow his lead. After talking to the teachers, that is.

[ecoteat]

From what you are describing this is what I'm imagining: DS is lining up with the class and pretends to slay the resource teacher, most likely with no ill will. Teacher finds that disrespectful/disruptive and takes 5 minutes off of his recess (I know lots of people think that is an inappropriate consequence, but the reality is that that is one typical way schools handle negative consequences.). Resource teacher assigns DS to tell classroom teacher about what happened. At this point I see nothing unusual or problematic. DS, with resource teacher at his side, tells classroom teacher he lost recess time and is asked to explain why. He says he is afraid to, and resource teacher tries to help him articulate the problem. At this point, the classroom teacher starts butting heads with DS. She probably is seeing him as being uncooperative and is trying to get him to own up to what he lost recess time for. The teachers were obviously not being very sensitive, but quite honestly this doesn't sound like an atypical interaction.

If this issue is causing you to consider other schools, then I wonder if any school is going to work for your family unless you are able to lessen your expectations. This is not to say that schools can't be fabulous places for learning, but a teacher/student relationship is VERY different than a parent/child relationship. You cannot expect the teachers to respond to your son like you do.

I think the best way for you to proceed is to let it go. Keep your ears and eyes open for issues that may cause distress to your son, but I really don't think this is one of them. Providing the teachers with information about attachment parenting isn't going to change anything--they aren't his parents, attachment or otherwise. There are programs for schools about community and trust and they are usually school-wide reforms with professional development and such. One program that the school I teach in uses is called Responsive Classroom and we like it a lot. We also are looking into discipline techniques insprired by the Restorative Justice program.

[minkin03]

Originally Posted by BellinghamCrunchie

It was an imaginary sword, and it sounds like fantasy play. I think its sad when that sort of thing is considered a huge red flag. I understand that teachers are more concerned about violence in schools these days, but geez... he's five years old!

Worse, they way they reacted (bullying - it was nothing less than bullying) isn't going to contribute to reducing that violence they are so terrified of - if anything, its going to increase it.

i agree. he's a boy and he's only 5 and doing what 5 year old boys do. i think they made too big of a deal out of it. like a pp said it was an inappropriate time and place to do (and disrespectful to do to a teacher). a loss of 5 min from recess seems fair, but having 4 teachers ganging up on him for such an incident seems over the top.

[pigpokey]

Originally Posted by SunshineJ

I've never heard this before. My aunt, dad and most of their peers were starting kindy at age 4, and are amazed some kids aren't going until 6.

I phrased that badly. I meant recently in the grand scheme of human history, to the extent schools or tutoring were employed with certain social classes.

My state moved compulsory education from age 7 to age 6 a few years ago.