Vaxing a child without parents consent

[organicpapayamama]

I had a "situation" occur over the weekend (its a long story but if you want all the juice its posted in my ddc) where my mom said she got my ds vaccinated with the h1n1 shot without my consent. I have yet to get a straight answer out of her weather she actually did this or she was "joking"/trying to piss me off. This event has now got me worried about how drs and clinics give vaccines. I am doing S&D vax for ds. Every time he has gotten a vax they dont ask me to sign for it.... I sign when I am declining it. They dont even ask to make sure I am the parent or anything. They just do it and stamp the little yellow card. Im not sure if this is how its usually done everywhere or just in CA or just at my sons drs office. I understand that legally no one but me (single mom) has the right to make those decisions for my son. But that doesnt stop someone like my mom from taking DS to a free clinic or even his own ped and say she is bringing him in for me to get whatever vax. They dont check that there is written instructions to do so. They dont know if she has the legal rights to do this. They dont even know if she is really the grandma. there has got to be something in place that drs and clinics or nurses have to verify to make sure the person asking for the vax has the legal right to do it. Even if its asking for a copy of your ID or something. Does anyone know if there is something in place for this? If there isnt how do we get the ball rolling to get something in place? This just has me very worried now as my family doesnt understand my decision to do S&D vax. any info is much appreciated.

[Emmeline II]

I would not leave my child alone with someone that would do that; and I would tell them why.

[organicpapayamama]

Anyone?

[Deborah]

I think you need to review the state laws on medical treatment for minors. A fairly easy way to get the info is to go to a public library and ask the reference librarian (or phone) to help you locate the relevant statutes. Once you know what the law is, you can call up a drug store or other public dispenser of vaccines and ask them if they follow the law on medical treatment of minors when it comes to vaccines.

I'm pretty sure that it is illegal to provide any medical treatment to a child without the consent of the parent/guardian. Good to get it clear, however, before you talk again with your mom.

I'm guessing that she is fibbing.

[miriam]

When my children were small, and we drew up our wills and trust, this was a consideration of mine...anyone who did not have the same views of health and childrearing as DH and I did were not going to be considered to be step parents for our children. I am glad this decision never had to take place.

The same for childcare. I would not leave my child in the care of a person who did not respect my views on child rearing.

Furthermore, I told very few people what my views on vaccinations were so that was never really a problem.

I suspect that many children get vaccinated without proper vetting as to who the adult is who is bringing them in to the doctor's office or health clinic. Most medical professionals feel that they are unquestionably doing the right thing for children by vaccinating them and no one would question their integrity nor the integrity of the adult who brings in the children for the vaccination. There are schools that are giving vaccinations for H1N1 this season without parental consent. So yes, I am sure it happens. But who is keeping the records? Reporting to VAERS is underdone, so how could anyone be keeping records on the adult who brings in children to be vaccinated?

[SunshineJ]

I think I'd have to call the places she'd most likely be able to have taken him this weekend and have them check their records to see if he'd been vaxxed. If she's just joking, I'd sit her down and let her know that I really take this seriously and wasn't laughing even a little. As for the laws and what's followed, I suspect most places don't ever bother to check. If you have the kid with you then you must be checked out to get medical treatment for them seems to be the general theory - besides, how would you "prove" you're the guardian, custodial parent, etc.? They dont' ask for birth certificates, etc.

[Deborah]

Well, I suspect that some of these places are riding for disaster.

Imagine the following: aunt takes child in for flu vaccine at a drug store. drug store doesn't check to see if the aunt has permission to get the child medical treatment. child develops anaphylaxis and dies. turns out that the parents knew that the child had medical problems and had been purposely avoiding getting this kid the vax. Further, the aunt is a bit wacky and was only supposed to be watching the kid for a few minutes while the mother ran to the store, but decided to run out and get them both vaccinated.

Well, okay, it is a bizarre scenario, but considering how hard it is to get emergency care for a child without parental permission, I find it hard to believe that these folks go around pushing needles into children without any paperwork at all.

I used to work at a private school and every parent had to fill out emergency medical care forms so the school could have a kid treated to save their life in case of a disaster.

While I was working there, a boy got a deep cut in his arm. I was a friend of the family, so I got to ride in the ambulance with him. When we got to the hospital, even with the medical care form, they wanted me to try really hard to get hold of his mom before they cleaned and stitched the injury.

If it is really true that people can pop in to a drug store with a child in tow and get them vaccinated with no evidence at all of parenthood or guardianship...my mind is boggled. That is crazy!

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Well, I suspect that some of these places are riding for disaster.

Imagine the following: aunt takes child in for flu vaccine at a drug store. drug store doesn't check to see if the aunt has permission to get the child medical treatment. child develops anaphylaxis and dies. turns out that the parents knew that the child had medical problems and had been purposely avoiding getting this kid the vax. Further, the aunt is a bit wacky and was only supposed to be watching the kid for a few minutes while the mother ran to the store, but decided to run out and get them both vaccinated.

Well, okay, it is a bizarre scenario, but considering how hard it is to get emergency care for a child without parental permission, I find it hard to believe that these folks go around pushing needles into children without any paperwork at all.

I used to work at a private school and every parent had to fill out emergency medical care forms so the school could have a kid treated to save their life in case of a disaster.

While I was working there, a boy got a deep cut in his arm. I was a friend of the family, so I got to ride in the ambulance with him. When we got to the hospital, even with the medical care form, they wanted me to try really hard to get hold of his mom before they cleaned and stitched the injury.

If it is really true that people can pop in to a drug store with a child in tow and get them vaccinated with no evidence at all of parenthood or guardianship...my mind is boggled. That is crazy!

I know, isn't this whole vaccine issue amazing?

I would gather that some hospitals/offices/regions are better than others at providing some sense of verification. But I know vax mamas IRL and I've heard plenty of times that "so and so took my kids and got them vaxed." I don't know if this is a fad or what...two ladies I know trade off on doctor visits for example. Now I suppose you could still say that some of these people prepare ahead of time or notify the doctor but I'm sure not every case. So it does happen.

Scary.

[Deborah]

Actually, I can see the trade-off doctor visit thing happening, although I certainly wouldn't do it.

The child is already an established patient of the practice.

The doctor knows the family, has the medical records, may even have some general consent forms for medical treatment. They have contact information and can call the parent if there is anything that looks odd.

But for someone to walk into a drug store with a child in tow and get the kid injected? Without any evidence that the child actually has any connection with that person at all? The liability issues would be huge.

[WorldsBestMom]

Vaccinating a child without parents consent thats a sticky situation even if the vaccine will benefit the child. Who so ever is the guardian of the child should ask the parents first. Especially if the parents are quiet capable of taking care of their own kid. I mean all they wanted the care giver to do is just monitor the child. I mean what happens if the child experience serious side effects.Thats a parent decision.

[pacificbliss]

I live in CA and have always had to sign a form consenting to or declining a vax. I have never taken DS anywhere but his pedi for a vax so I don't know if I could just walk into Walgreen's for example and have it done without signing a form.

[organicpapayamama]

Originally Posted by Deborah

Well, I suspect that some of these places are riding for disaster.

Imagine the following: aunt takes child in for flu vaccine at a drug store. drug store doesn't check to see if the aunt has permission to get the child medical treatment. child develops anaphylaxis and dies. turns out that the parents knew that the child had medical problems and had been purposely avoiding getting this kid the vax. Further, the aunt is a bit wacky and was only supposed to be watching the kid for a few minutes while the mother ran to the store, but decided to run out and get them both vaccinated.

Well, okay, it is a bizarre scenario, but considering how hard it is to get emergency care for a child without parental permission, I find it hard to believe that these folks go around pushing needles into children without any paperwork at all.

I used to work at a private school and every parent had to fill out emergency medical care forms so the school could have a kid treated to save their life in case of a disaster.

While I was working there, a boy got a deep cut in his arm. I was a friend of the family, so I got to ride in the ambulance with him. When we got to the hospital, even with the medical care form, they wanted me to try really hard to get hold of his mom before they cleaned and stitched the injury.

If it is really true that people can pop in to a drug store with a child in tow and get them vaccinated with no evidence at all of parenthood or guardianship...my mind is boggled. That is crazy!

thats exactly my concern. Though technically its illegal it can be done quite easily and by that time (as in your example) it may already be too late. even if there wasnt a known allergy or health condition reactions can happen anytime after any vax as we all know. Something has got to change. Rules have to be set in place to protect our children and parental rights.

[AllyRae]

The way the h1n1 vaccine has been pushed, I would not even be surprised at this, especially at busy vaccine clinics.

I agree with the previous poster that said under NO circumstances would that individual ever be left alone with my child if that was me. Holy crap, that's just a recipe for disaster...what if more than one person had given the child the vaccine because they were each trying to be "helpful" or what if the child had a reaction, etc.

[organicpapayamama]

Thank you all for your replies. I am glad Im not alone in my concern for this matter. I strongly feel that *something* needs to be done to have something in place to verify at least on some level who is requesting our children to be vaxed and stricter guidelines to screen those who decline vaxing in schools. I have heard too many stories of parents sending wavers to school with their children and giving it to the nurse and they still vax the child and even sign right below the declined vax box! I want to start some sort of movement of petition or something to get things moving here. Does anyone have any ideas or suggestions? I dont really even know where to begin.

[Addy's Mom]

I can research this a little for you if you'd like (maybe this afternoon). Various state laws, etc.

It's curious, though, because I've always had to sign for every vaccine my child's gotten. I have to sign for my own flu shots, too. It doesn't prevent someone from getting your child vaxed without your permission, but there should at least be a record of it somewhere.

[organicpapayamama]

Originally Posted by Addy's Mom

I can research this a little for you if you'd like (maybe this afternoon). Various state laws, etc.

It's curious, though, because I've always had to sign for every vaccine my child's gotten. I have to sign for my own flu shots, too. It doesn't prevent someone from getting your child vaxed without your permission, but there should at least be a record of it somewhere.

the bolded is what Id like to at least start some sort of movement to change. And as for signing for vaxes.... I dont know if this varies by state or even by health care provider but something needs to be put in place as a uniform practice. Some sort of law or regulation of some sort. Id like to change history with the help of like minded mamas if you will.

[anj_rn]

All drs are required to obtain authorization/consent for treatment. Most providers do a generic consent in the initial paperwork at your first visit (which usually includes vaxes). Most peds also have the parents complete a list of adults that can ring their children to the office (I am on the list for my nephew). If they were on the list, they could have your child vaxed.

In the pharmacies, they do have a consent, but like the dr.s office (and even the hospital), the healthcare providers take the adult's word that they are the parent/legal guardian.

While I see the risks in having adults falsify their relationships. I would hate to have to provide proof any time I needed to sign a consent for my children. I would have to walk around with their Birth certificates and my DL.

[organicpapayamama]

Originally Posted by anj_rn

All drs are required to obtain authorization/consent for treatment. Most providers do a generic consent in the initial paperwork at your first visit (which usually includes vaxes). Most peds also have the parents complete a list of adults that can ring their children to the office (I am on the list for my nephew). If they were on the list, they could have your child vaxed.

In the pharmacies, they do have a consent, but like the dr.s office (and even the hospital), the healthcare providers take the adult's word that they are the parent/legal guardian.

While I see the risks in having adults falsify their relationships. I would hate to have to provide proof any time I needed to sign a consent for my children. I would have to walk around with their Birth certificates and my DL.

to the first bolded statement: Im not sure if this is supposed to be norm everywhere but it is not for the two ped that I have had my ds see.

the second bolded statement... see that is the problem I have with it... its assumed

to the third bolded... I can understand the extra hassle but isnt first off dont most people have their DL or state ID with them at all times? Second, dont you have to bring paperwork for a vax anyway like the childs yellow vax card? how hard would it be to just bring a copy of the birth certificate?

I realize there is not going to be an easy fix for this problem (at least to me its a problem). There is no way to please everyone. It may make it more of a hassle to bring that extra documentation but if its in the interest of my childs health and safety its worth it.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by organicpapayamama

Second, dont you have to bring paperwork for a vax anyway like the childs yellow vax card?

That's not usually a requirement, they make a note in the child's medical records, whether the parents keep a separate copy is optional.

how hard would it be to just bring a copy of the birth certificate?

I don't have copies of either of my kids' birth certificates. I'll get them someday but I haven't needed them yet, and seems a high burden for a medical procedure. What about medicine administered at a doctor's office, maybe a breathing treatment for a wheezing child?

[organicpapayamama]

Originally Posted by TanyaLopez

I don't have copies of either of my kids' birth certificates. I'll get them someday but I haven't needed them yet, and seems a high burden for a medical procedure. What about medicine administered at a doctor's office, maybe a breathing treatment for a wheezing child?

I guess that would be up to each parent to decide if they wish there were verification for that too. However its not as controversial, at least from what I have seen, as vaxes. I have yet to hear of a child dying as a result of a side effect of breathing treatment, although Im sure its out there its not as significant as all the side effects (short and long) of vaxes... at least in my opinion. Im sure if it becomes a concern in the majority of the parenting world then someone will want to take the same steps Im trying to take to protect their child.