What would happen if...?

[larzanna]

...When i tried to put DS down for a nap, tired and drowsey, but not asleep, and of course he gets up and screams bloody murder for as long as i let him (and ya, there have been times when its been an hour+....it was that or be really mean to him, and in that case a little crying does less damage than a mom who is being really mean to you)
.....ya makes me a terrible person i know, this baby always makes me feel like a terrible person and a crappy mother every single day, but thats an aside.....

So, if when he does this, i just get him back up, let him play or whatever, and try again later, reapeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat.......
At some point do you think that he would just be SO tired that if i lay him down drowsy but awake he would actually fall asleep from utter exhaustion??

Thoughts?
Yes i have read the NCSS, ha that book is a joke IMO.

-L

[BrittneyMarie]

you sound like you're having a really hard time. maybe wait until he's completely asleep to put him down. my dd can't fall asleep by herself at all, either.

and have you thought about talking to someone about the anger issues?

sorry, im not very helpful, but i couldnt read and not respond

[tzs]

it does NOT make you a terrible person, absolutely not. i felt extreme pressure to do everything "right" until my husband (the one i really felt would be judging me if i "failed") said straight up, you have to take care of yourself first before you can take care of the babe. before that i was starving myself because i couldn;t get to eat without her crying. well ya know...she might need to cry for a few minutes so i can eat and be in a good place to take care of her.

i think a mindshift would help too. it's not the babe that's making you feel like a bad mother. it's people. sometime you hear so much how crying-it-out is evil, having your babe in a crib is bad, carseats are bad, swings are bad, you name it....that you could drive yourself crazy trying to be "perfect." it doesn't exist.

yes, sleep is important but not so much that you drive yourself crazy. it took me a while to realize that sometimes my dd needed try cry for a little to get a really good nap. and i'm just starting to realize that if she misses that nap that the world isn't going to end.

now...off to take her....after a failed nap attempt....on a walk.

[Alisse]

I had a real tough time in the few months with my son not wanting to sleep outside of my arms while i walked all around the house. It was so exhausting and frustrating at times. I broke down a couple of times and had to call my sister to drop everything she was doing to come and help me. Is there anyone that can come over to help you out sometimes with the baby? It got easier after the first few growth spurts (these times were the most difficult for "fussiness"). My LO still won't sleep well on his own but is doing better. The thing that saved my sanity was finding a baby carrier that we liked so that i could carry him without being exhausted. And wow, does he ever sleep for hours in it! I think that carrying him around all the time is part of what's melted the weight off my body too!

But when confronted with the choice of whether to get mad at the baby or place him down to cry, the latter is definitely the best thing to do. You should be happy with yourself that, despite all the frustration, you can still make this kind of choice. In the meantime, you're absolutely going to need some help coping with what you're going through. Like someone to talk to and/or to help you out. And remember, this forum is a great place to ask for advice on all kinds of specifics.

Mama, hang in there. Remember that baby doesn't know any better. And things will get easier and more fun.

Things that particularly helped my son nap:
- baby carrier
- bath
- walk outside in stroller or baby carrier (particularly good for both me and him)

[gbutterflykissesm]

My LO is about the same age as yours, and is a horrible daytime napper. I hear your frustration. I can lay him down awake at night and he drifts off without a peep, but during the day he needs movement to sleep, so he either needs to sleep in the arm's reach cocoon or I nurse or rock him to sleep. He rarely does well in the crib for naps. I love nursing and rocking him to sleep, but it's hard when we're out of town and he's in a different environment. Then, he will pretty much ONLY sleep when worn. Have you tried nursing/rocking/wearing your baby to sleep for naps? It sounds like you're probably ready to have a moment to yourself, and that's why you're wanting him to go down a little bit easier.

I think the most important thing to tackle first is not how to get your baby to go down easier for naps, but to get yourself some support. Can you have a friend or family member or babysitter come over for a couple of hours a day, a few days a week, so you can rest or run errands? It sounds like you are exhausted and frustrated. I would start there.

It also sounds like putting him down crying is not working. I know that if my DS cries in the crib during naps, he WAKES UP. There is no going back to sleep, even if he's exhausted. But if I were to just put him in his crib and hope he goes to sleep, and then pick him up and play with him once he cries, I think that would be too stimulating for him. At some point I would need to do the whole rocking/babywearing routine to soothe him.

The difference between the NCSS and what you're wondering if you should do is that it sounds like maybe your baby isn't old enough to self soothe, so your plan might help him fall asleep from utter exhaustion, but it wouldn't help himself self soothe (if that's what your goal is). The NCSS recognizes that baby still needs help being soothed to sleep, and simply allows you to hopefully wean off of those soothing methods slowly, at your baby's own pace. I would say that you might have more luck with the NCSS than the method you're suggesting, just because it sounds like your baby still needs to be soothed to sleep. I would start there. Maybe try to figure out how to soothe your baby to sleep so that he can get some naps and not be over tired. This may take a lot of experimentation. But once you are able to get him to sleep by soothing him, eventually you can wean him off of those methods. He's still young though. I'm thinking it will be quite a while before you can just put him in the crib and have him sleep. Kids need a sleep routine, and they need to wind down before they go to sleep.

I know that is kind of all over the place, but I hope it helps. I guess the moral of my story is A). you may want some support during the day and B). you may need to find a way to soothe your baby to sleep and not hope for self soothing at this age.

[claddaghmom]

Originally Posted by larzanna

...When i tried to put DS down for a nap, tired and drowsey, but not asleep, and of course he gets up and screams bloody murder for as long as i let him (and ya, there have been times when its been an hour+....it was that or be really mean to him, and in that case a little crying does less damage than a mom who is being really mean to you)
.....ya makes me a terrible person i know, this baby always makes me feel like a terrible person and a crappy mother every single day, but thats an aside.....

So, if when he does this, i just get him back up, let him play or whatever, and try again later, reapeat repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat.......
At some point do you think that he would just be SO tired that if i lay him down drowsy but awake he would actually fall asleep from utter exhaustion??

Thoughts?
Yes i have read the NCSS, ha that book is a joke IMO.

-L

Hey, you might be onto something...your baby might not need so many naps and is just enjoying dozing with you. Try cutting back on the naptime and see what happens. Of course this should be experimental as some kids get worse when sleep deprived.

But several times over DD's life I have had to cut naps back.

[BlueWolf]

Sounds like you need to join the high-needs baby tribe.

[larzanna]

Originally Posted by BlueWolf

Sounds like you need to join the high-needs baby tribe.

This made me teary eyed chuckle. I just wish that i knew someone in real life who has a baby like mine. Actually i would love to meet someone who is not even sort of AP (i'm only sort of AP anyway) who has one....that way i can see what it is they have done/not done!
Because, even if i wanted to, CIO for him would just never work (i am at the point that if it would work i would do it and not look back)

I do not mind rocking him to sleep, but what happens is that he wakes up every 30 minutes, and since i rocked him the first time, he wants to be rocked back to sleep everytime. I just can't rock him to sleep (for 15min) every 30 minutes, thats just crazy! I need him to start getting an idea of how to roll over and go back to sleep on his own, and i don't know how to teach him.

I really do feel like a horrible mom that my kid does not sleep. Does anyone know if there is a real life parents of high needs babies group? That would be a great help! I will have to check out the my tribe area.....

Thanks
-L

[kdtmom2be]

Sounds like my first. She's 2.5 now and still up several times a night. I don't have any help for you, sorry, except to say that the NCSS book didn't work for us either. It does get better and they do learn, eventually, to sleep longer and to put themselves back to sleep. One thing that helped for us was for DD to eat solids (which she didn't reliably do until after 12 months) and then night-weaning. Also, her poor sleep was partly due to allergies, dairy and garlic/onions, have you tried gripe water? That might get you longer stretches of sleep at the very least.

[gbutterflykissesm]

larzanna, is this all the time (at night and for naps) or only for naps? If it's only for naps, I would say that your baby might just be a short napper. Mine is. We normally only get 30-45 minutes out of his naps.

If we put him to sleep swaddled in the arm's reach cocoon (which is a baby hammock), we can sneak in when he wakes up after his first sleep cycle and try rocking/bouncing it and 60% of the time he goes back to sleep. It has been a lifesaver!

Have you tried swaddling your LO?

[batsister]

Originally Posted by larzanna

I do not mind rocking him to sleep, but what happens is that he wakes up every 30 minutes, and since i rocked him the first time, he wants to be rocked back to sleep everytime. I just can't rock him to sleep (for 15min) every 30 minutes, thats just crazy! I need him to start getting an idea of how to roll over and go back to sleep on his own, and i don't know how to teach him.

-L

I'm sorry you are having a tough time. My son is only 6 months old, but he still takes most of his naps on me. If I lay him down, he will usually sleep for a little while, but then wake up fairly soon and either a) stay awake and get sleepy/cranky again before long, or b) need to be nursed or walked back to sleep. So for me, it is easier to just let him sleep on me (for now)... I either spend that time to do stuff on the computer (in fact, he is asleep on my chest right now ), or I wear him in a carrier and go for a walk, do things around the house, etc.

I don't have any brilliant advice; just wanted to let you know that your baby is definitely not the only one that wakes up frequently during naps and needs help getting back to sleep, and to mention what has worked for us. Good luck!

[larzanna]

Originally Posted by gbutterflykissesm

larzanna, is this all the time (at night and for naps) or only for naps?

Its if i am not holding him, or sleeping next to him. (we co-sleep, but my preference would be to co-sleep only for the 2nd half of the night, and have him in a crib in our room at the beginning)

So naps yes, and bed goes like this...to bed at 8:30 (it used to be earlier but then he gets up at 5am), wakes at 9pm, 9:30pm, (this is when i go to bed)10pm, 10:10, 10:20, 10:30, when i finally tell my DH to just lay him next to me in bed.
At each of these wakeups my DH rocks him back to sleep. If we leave him for a bit to "fuss" the fuss always turns to crying.
We have changed the room temp, left a light on/off, white noice, used bra pads under the sheet, paci (hates it)...you name it we have tried it.
Once he lays next to me i get 2-3 hour stretches.
He wakes up at 6:30am.

No i can't nap with him. I don't want to, i hate naps.

We have been to the Dr to check for ANYTHING that might be a physical problem. Have tried antacid meds (prescription), Motrin for teeth, rescue remedy (for kids) to calm him, gripe water ect.
He will go back to sleep easy, but never on his own.

ugh, he was a great sleeper from 6weeks-16weeks (waking once, easy to rock to sleep, and then stayed that way for a couple hours), then it was all down hill....a very steep hill

-L

[Chamomile Girl]

Originally Posted by batsister

I'm sorry you are having a tough time. My son is only 6 months old, but he still takes most of his naps on me. If I lay him down, he will usually sleep for a little while, but then wake up fairly soon and either a) stay awake and get sleepy/cranky again before long, or b) need to be nursed or walked back to sleep. So for me, it is easier to just let him sleep on me (for now)... I either spend that time to do stuff on the computer (in fact, he is asleep on my chest right now ), or I wear him in a carrier and go for a walk, do things around the house, etc.
!

That is pretty much the same story with my kid. I simply don't expect to get anything done during the day (or at night anymore because even when he goes down for the night he wakes up every 30 minutes until I go to bed with him). When he is really tired and fighting sleep I put him into the Ergo and walk with him. That will put him down every time.

Honestly I wouldn't expect that my kid would stay asleep if I placed him into a crib. He cannot stay asleep without physical contact with me. I don't really see how that makes him high-needs though. It seems pretty normal to me for this age of babe.

[BlueWolf]

I can't get my DD to nap either... she will only nap in her swing. I cannot, for the life of me, get her to nap in her crib which is side carred to our bed. Naps have to be in the swing and only last approx. 30 minutes give or take.

It's a major frustration...

[lifeguard]

I don't know - drowsy just doesn't happen for some babies imho. Ds is either awake or asleep & it works the other way around too. So lying him down drowsy was always impossible.

It so tough to find what works best for you & babe sometimes.

[penstamon]

OP, it doesn't make you a terrible mama to have to walk away for awhile when you just can't take it. I am in a similar situation with a bad sleeper and have no friends/family to help out. I could have written a lot of your story because we have been there and are still there now. It has helped me to get him to nap in the stroller each day while I take a long walk. I also just struggle with him when he is tired- pat his back, sing to him, etc. even when he fights the nap and now usually I win. It sucks and yes I have had to walk away for a few moments. On a good note, over the past few weeks he is slowly getting better at napping and I just keep telling myself it will pass. Because it will. Your LO will sleep and nap.

[slimkins]

First off, mama.
My son is just about to turn 5 months and in the past couple of weeks, I have had to change our nap routine. One reason is because he is almost 20 lbs. now and the other reason is because he is learning to sit up and is trying to master it at ALL TIMES. So, when I try to carry him and rock him to sleep, the whole time he is trying to sit up. I thought I was going to loose my noodles dealing with this.
What seems to be working for us *right now* is: when I know he is getting tired and is still happy, I put him in his crib with one of his toys to play for a little while and relax. Anywhere between 5 and 10 minutes he will start to fuss and that is when I go in to get him. By that point, once I grab him he usually falls asleep in my arms within 5 minutes. Then after a couple of minutes, I go and put him back down in his crib.
Mine also only sleeps for the 45 minute sleep cycles (lately only 30)... ugh, so, I can't help you there. But he still usually wakes up happy and so I have stopped stressing about the time. Also, just the past week we he has started to stay awake for 2 hours before we put him down, and this is working a lot better.

[liliaceae]

Have you tried napping him in the car? My son would nap only in the car for over a year.

Oh and to answer your question, some babies will fall asleep more easily if you just keep pushing back their nap time, some won't.

[_betsy_]

For DD1, there is no drowsy. There's awake and asleep, like an on/off switch.

I nursed her, rocked and sang to her for every nap for 2+ years. A "good nap" was one where she stayed asleep longer than the amount of time it took for me to get her to sleep.

Around 12 months, I started telling her she wasn't going to miss anything, I was going to nap too (she can't cosleep, too light of a sleeper and she twitches, driving me nuts!). The first few times I told her she wouldn't miss anything, she immediately relaxed, sighed and succumbed to sleep. She was fighting the sleep she so desperately needed because she doesn't want to miss out on anything fun!

White noise, room darkening shades, swaddled till she was 15 months. Pacifier, 3 songs in the same order, or she'd wake up instantly if I dared to mess up that order!

Sounds like you need a break, Mama! BTDT. It'll get better eventually! Now DD1 is 3 and she puts herself to sleep and stays in bed all night. She got better around 18 months and again just before turning 3.

[zinemama]

OP, read this. It may explain what's going on. Here's a snippet:

"there are a couple different kinds of babies. There are babies who release tension by crying, and there are babies who increase energy by crying. If you treat them both the same way, you're going to have trouble, so it's key to figure out which kind of kid you have."

http://moxie.blogs.com/askmoxie/2006...s_and_cio.html

This one blog post did more for me in the baby sleep department than the entire NCSS (which didn't do a thing.)