Friend owes us money (sorry kinda long)

[bcblondie]

Before we were married, DH lent a friend (we'll call him H) some money for his truck. About 1000 bucks. He said he'd pay him back next paycheck and it got pushed back and other things came up.
Then he needed money for gas, some things for their wedding, etc. and DH was way too nice, and helped them out.
Once we were married, H asked if we would get them cellphones in our name since they have no credit, and didn't have the money up front. Dh kinda already said yes and even though I had a really bad feeling about it, I trusted dh and let him get the phones. Two 3 year contracts.
Well 2 months into the contracts they moved out of province
We found a taker for the one phone but ended up having to buy out the contract of teh other.
So now H and his wife (S) owe us $2700

We don't harras them about it, but THEY keep bringing it up, saying "you should have money coming your way soon". Last time DH said to H "that would be nice. It's been 5 years" (since the first 1000)

Anyways. Since all this happened I've realized they (well, more just S) is a crappy friend in other ways. She treats me different when we are around certain people, like I'm stupid, when she knows I'm just joking around. Stuff like that.

So anyways. What would you do. I feel so used. And as you can see, we aren't too concerned that confronting them will cost us their friendship, as they aren't great friends anyways. But it upsets me because they've borrowed from every single one of our friends, all of which just eventually forgave them their debt. I'm sure they assume we will too. That's not how the world works!

[SoulCakes]

Ugh. That really sucks.

I've always heard that you should never lend your friends or family more than what you can just forgive. Because these things have a way of biting the giver in the rear end, and then everyone's upset and eventually no one's friends with each other anymore.

But... too late. This is mostly your husband's responsibility to deal with than yours, and I'm guessing that he's friends with H more than you are. He could suggest breaking the debt into manageable chunks and doing a monthly payment type plan. I don't know what his personality is like, but he could also sit down with H and tell him that this is starting to affect the friendship, just to let him know that he's taking it seriously and the debt isn't going to be written off anytime soon. If that doesn't get him to straighten up... then I don't know what will. I mean, you could take him to small claims, but the hassle isn't often worth it. But that's up to you two.

Don't worry about S. If she's being a witch just hang out with other people and if you can't avoid her, ignore her.

Oh, and it goes without saying: never ever lend them money again! But I'm guessing you already know that.

[bcblondie]

Thanks Soulcakes. That's great advice actually.
Well we did try setting up a payment plan. We asked if they could manage 50 a month, 25 per paycheck. Even only 25 a month if that's all they can do. They said they couldn't!! And yet they have money to go to fast food places all the time, and buy plane tickets "because they were on sale"

But I think this:

sit down with H and tell him that this is starting to affect the friendship, just to let him know that he's taking it seriously and the debt isn't going to be written off anytime soon

is a great plan and I'm going to do it! I think that's definately the problem, that they keep expecting us to forgive it. So if we say flat out we aren't goign to, then that might make them face reality.
And yes it's definately affecting the friendship.

I'm very tempted to take them to small claims if this doesn't work. I knwo that 90% of the time, the simple threat of it, and maybe some innitial paperwork, is all it takes to get the guilty party to pay up... But if not, you're right. The whole sytem would be a lot of work.

Avoiding them wont be a problem, as I said, they moved out of province. Thank goodness. lol. Or else we probably would have had a major blow up one of these days.
And yes we've definately learned our lesson!! lol.

[bcblondie]

Ok question. DH and I were talking just now. He mentioned there's some kind of paper I can have sent to them, basically like a court order demanding they pay us, and contains prepaid envelopes for them to send money to us. Does anyone know what that's called/how to go about getting one?

[echospiritwarrior]

honestly I would just let it go.

I have a cousin of mine that stole my trust fund. It sucks and I'm in debt $30k from getting a degree but I was silly enough at the time to say I'm not going to let theft stop me from getting an education.

Some things are just unfair. Try to find your peace and move along. They are the ones that are going to have to live with it.

[Kontessa]

I would never lend friends money and expect it back. If I needed it back then I would not be able to lend it. (Believe me we have given friends and family a lot and sometimes we shouldn't have but their need was greater) I couldn't bring friends to court... if I thought them no longer friends I would have to tell them so and let them go but they must have needed help bad enough that your husband thought to give to them again and again. I wonder how else things have changed for you all.

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by echospiritwarrior

Some things are just unfair. Try to find your peace and move along. They are the ones that are going to have to live with it.

I don't think they lose any sleep over it

The friendship is gone. We might as well get our money back...

[BfBobby]

Originally Posted by Kontessa

I would never lend friends money and expect it back. If I needed it back then I would not be able to lend it. (Believe me we have given friends and family a lot and sometimes we shouldn't have but their need was greater) I couldn't bring friends to court... if I thought them no longer friends I would have to tell them so and let them go but they must have needed help bad enough that your husband thought to give to them again and again. I wonder how else things have changed for you all.

It sounds like you're judging their spending habits and determining that based on the fact that they can afford x,y, and z then they should have paid you back first. The truth is that you have no idea how they came by x, y, and z, nor what they mean to them and you're making judgments about a situation that you don't necessarily have all the information about. I doubt that anyone enjoys being in debt and losing friendships over money; what has changed that you were once willing to go out on a limb to help a friend and now you aren't willing to help them any more?

[bcblondie]

If they had come to me and said "look, we're broke, could you plz help us by buying this or that for us, we'd really appreciate it" that would be different. Now I don't feel like I helped. I feel used. I feel betrayed. Like they borrowed it without intention to pay back. They've never paid anyone back. And yet they talk about all the money they make... They've told us exactly how much he makes, and what their bills are.
Like their tax return was like 1400 more than they thought it would be. Money they would have been able to live without. Would they consider giving that to friends they owe to? not a chance. "oh we need it for this or that."
You didn't need it before you knew you were getting it...

And while I appreciate everyone's imput, with all due respect, I asked for help, not critism. I've learned my lesson never to lend money to friends. Can we move on?

[echospiritwarrior]

Originally Posted by bcblondie

I don't think they lose any sleep over it

The friendship is gone. We might as well get our money back...

I guess you're right that there is no loss of sleep on your "friend's" part. But you shouldn't lose any sleep over it either. Friendship over or not it's usually better to just move on, if you were going to get it back you would have by now, no?

I could take my cousin to court for not having paid according to her payment plan for the past 5 years but that sounds like way more hassle than it's worth (need I mention that taking her to court the first time cost pretty much what I was able to recover). A court of law can't MAKE her pay it and what good would it be to have her wages garnished in order to feed my friendly attorney.????. I call it a lesson of live and learn, you can't trust everyone especially not family.

I had to really work at it, but once I was really able to "let go" I felt so much lighter. Whether the amount is $200, $2K or $200K (as it was in my case) it's just money. I have my wonderful husband and two healthy children they are irreplaceable. We're poor but happy. The money part of things will come down the road. or not.

[bcblondie]

Wow 200k is a lot. Props to you on forgiving it. I think if this couple was making an effort, if they were to start giving 50 here or 100 there, not even just to me but to ANY of our friends they owe, I'd forgive them. I mean, in my mind I've definately written it off. We're living fine without it. Tight. But fine. lol. But they think this is how the world works. That they can just take advantage of anyone and everyone. It's not right. And I knwo it's not my "job" to teach them a lesson, but I think standing my ground will help teach them SOMETHIGN.

Another thing is, that for a small claims court you don't usually have an attourny.
And I don't know if this is true or not, but if you win, doesn't the losing party pay the court fees?

[pumpkin]

I have no idea how to go about getting your money from these people. I don't loan money for this reason. I just wanted to say that you should be paid back and are perfectly justified in being upset about them not doing so.

[bcblondie]

Thank you pumpkin!

[CarrieMF]

Since the friendship isn't at risk then yes I'd take them to court.

[Caneel]

OP - Recovering the money or not, I think it is important for you and DH to get to the root of why he would give money to someone who has a history of borrowing money with no intention of paying back and shows zero guilt/remorse.

We have been there, done that. Too long to explain but when DH recognized why he would loan money (guilt), it became easier to say no.

Court? Yeah, I probably would just on principle.

[SunshineJ]

Ugh I know exactly where you're coming from! A couple years ago I gave a friend $500 to help her with her mortgage. I did not consider it a loan, but a gift, simply because I know better. And I'm fine with that - except, SHE is the one who has kept on telling us that she'll pay us back. She'll write us checks then "Oops, this bill came up, can you tear that up for me and not cash it?". Look, either accept it as a "gift" or pay us the money back but don't keep saying you're going to and not. That's just rude. Not to mention that in the past 2 years she's gotten a $10,000 raise that resulted in a good chunk that paid to her retroactively for 3 months (yep there was a $250 check in there, but after she bought new clothes and spent $300 renting a hotel at a local ski resort for NYE, oops, don't cash that one!), has had the money to get an elaborate tattoo, has had more new Blackberries than I can count and purchased a new car. We have been out of work and literally were eating the kids leftovers because we couldn't afford to feed the whole family there for a while, and she tells us about a friend of hers who got injured at work and things were so tough for them so she gave them $100. While reminding us she owes us $500 - and don't think she offered us $100 to help out with groceries regardless of the loan/gift. So yeah, I DO feel that sometimes you can judge what people who owe you money spend theirs on!

$2700 is a LOT of money imo, if you're more a paycheck to paycheck or tightly budgeted family. If the friendship is over, then I'd go ahead and go after it with one warning. If you do, it may affect your friendship with the rest of your friends who have forgiven their loans, so think if it's worth that.

[bcblondie]

Originally Posted by Caneel

OP - Recovering the money or not, I think it is important for you and DH to get to the root of why he would give money to someone who has a history of borrowing money with no intention of paying back and shows zero guilt/remorse.

We have been there, done that. Too long to explain but when DH recognized why he would loan money (guilt), it became easier to say no.

Yes, I'm sure that's the reason. He's way too nice for his own good. He felt sorry for the guy and lent him the money. It worked several times. They act like they are going to die if they don't get the money. Finally he learned his lesson. They came to him again when S's engagement ring was going to be repo'd asking for another 1000 and dh said heck no. It did get repo'd and they ended up borrowing from some other sucker who I'm sure they never paid back.



Sunshine, thank you for your imput. I'm sorry you've gone through a similar thing. What a terrible situation to feel so used, eh? And yes, S does the same thing. Get's her eyebrows done professionally and crap. Coffee shops and pointless spending EVERYWHERE. She said flat out "it's only this much, it's only that much" yea that adds up ya know?!?! Makes me so mad.

I think there might be a few people that, if they hear about us sueing them, will guilt us for being "materialistic" but it's not even about that. Yes you're right we are TIGHTLY budgeted (ie, no proffession eyebrow plucking or hair dying for me!!) but we get by. But it's also about teaching them not to use freinds. You use friends you lose friends. Cuz we're gone either way.
But anyways. Most of our friends will probably pat us on the back and say good on you. Someone had to teach them. lol.

[Kontessa]

Originally Posted by bcblondie

What would you do.

Excuse me for answering your question, your asked what would I do and I told you. I would not lend money out and expect it back. Your expecting it back and it sounds like your upset over the friendship ending and how S treats you in public and even if this is the only reason and it does not sound like it is, it does in fact sound like your trying to find a way to teach them a lesson.

Have their other friends whom you have said have just forgiven them the money dropped them as friends too? I wonder what issues this would cause you and those mutual friends.

Your friends enough with them to know what they are getting back on their return this years.

So what I would do is find out what other issues are going on, like how you feel about S treating you in front of others, and figure out if this is really all about money and how much that money is worth. People before money is my opinion.

[bcblondie]

I asked what you would do from here on. I can't go back in time so saying "don't lend money" doesn't help.

I totally agree, friends before money. But I don't think her treating me like crap has anything to do with the money. We were at SIL's house and SIL knows nothing of the money. She's just a bee with an itch to begin with. She doens't get my humour AT ALL. I make jokes like, blond comments, and people who know me, know I'm totally kidding. My closest friends and I have a great laugh. I've lived with S and I know she gets me. But when we were at SIL's I made a joke about somethign on TV and she acted like I was stupid just because she knew SIL wouldn't get my joke.

And SIL knows nothing of our money situation.

ETA. for the record my "all due respect" thing wasn't targetted at you. to be honest I kind of skimmed your post because it was a bit of a run on paragraph and a little hard to read/understand. Please don't take that the wrong way.

[Ola_]

Ugh, I hate those kinds of situations - makes you feel so icky inside.

Do you have anything in writing about the loans and lost money from the phones, etc? If you talk to them over email I'd start discussing this there so you have a paper trail re: them agreeing that it's your debt and that they plan to pay you back, etc. I think it would be tough to go to small claims court if you don't have enough documentation. I hope you can get your money back, good luck!