"You're being overprotective....how will they learn to deal with..." - Page 2

[tankgirl73]

Can I just give a "yeah that" to this ENTIRE THREAD?

Thank you.

[heatherdeg]

Originally Posted by tankgirl73

Can I just give a "yeah that" to this ENTIRE THREAD?

Thank you.

[mommy68]

I feel like our children have the rest of their adult lives to interact with mean or bad people and to experience the negativities of the real world. Why force them to go through it at a young age? I don't really understand the thinking behind that exactly. So it's not really a good enough reason for someone to question my choice to home school. I'm not sure why people who don't homeschool feel a young child HAS to go through bad things in order to learn about the real world.

[junie]

I want to start by saying that I agree with many of the sentiments expressed in this thread, and I understand what the OP is going through. I've had people ask me how my children will learn to deal with bullies if they're homeschooled, and I just kind of silently roll my eyes. Luckily it hasn't happened often enough for me to bother to come up with a response.

Anyway, I did want to give a bit of a different perspective on this idea:

Originally Posted by lynsage

My standard response to the overprotectiveness accusations is: "You can teach kids to deal with something without making them go through it themselves. In fact, it is usually better to verbally tell them how to stop, drop and roll than to set them on fire and let them figure it out."

I understand what you're saying here, but I'm going to respectfully disagree with it. In some cases, I agree that it's just as easy, if not better, to learn something by being told about it, rather than having to go through it. However, in the case of bullies, I do actually think it's something you have to go through to really learn how to deal effectively. It's a relationship, and like any relationship, until you've experienced it, you're never going to truly know how to deal with it. You can talk to someone about marriage, for example, all you want, but until they've been married, they really won't know how to be successful at it, kwim?

I also have a problem with this reasoning because IMO, one of the BEST reasons for homeschooling is that you CAN'T simply tell someone about something, and expect them to learn it. I think true learning needs life experiences, which is often NOT what you get in school. So I'd be reluctant to praise homeschooling for the life experience children can get on the one hand, and then dismiss arguments about bullies saying children don't need life experience to learn, on the other.

What I would say to the bully question is that just like you can't expect a child to ride a bike or drive a car etc. before they are developmentally ready, you cannot expect them to deal with bullies before they are developmentally ready. I strongly believe, and will argue that point, that young children, and maybe even many teenagers, are just not developmentally ready to deal with bullies. Just like they're not developmentally ready to deal with being married, or being parents etc. So why on earth would I put them in a situation that they are not ready for?

Anyway, that's just my take on the bully question. Although I will say I'd prefer an answer like the stop drop and roll one because I think stupid questions about bullying deserve quick witted responses like that. I just can't logically agree with it.

[lynsage]

Junie, I agree with you about the bullying experience being relationship-based, and in our case we had to teach DD how to deal with bullies because of a child she is around socially who bullies, takes toys, hits, etc. We talk in advance about how she's going to deal with this child's behavior when she sees them before we go to whatever social event the child is going to be attending, and then she handles it accordingly. I really believe it's a combination of being educated and prepared, and then applying those teachings when the situation arises, that leads to learning.

I still like my one-liner for shutting up people with nosy-pants-itis, though

P.S. thanks to everyone who commented to me about this- your responses really made my day

[junie]

Okay, I'm probably spending WAY too much time thinking about this, lol, but a few other thoughts occurred to me while I was out shopping today.

First, rather than argue why public school is NOT good for learning how to deal with bullies, or that homeschooling is good, why not challenge the basic assumption that is being made, i.e.- that homeschooling HAS to be superior over public school in EVERY way in order for it to be an option. One of my biggest pet peeves is the impossibly high standards people expect homeschooling to meet, while NOT expecting the same from public schools.

Let's, for argument sake, say that children DO learn to deal with bullies better at public school (and for the record, I absolutely do NOT believe this). So what? Why does homeschooling have to be superior in every way, in order for it to be a good choice? Why can't it just be mostly better? Deciding how your child should be educated is about weighing the pros and cons of all the options available, and deciding which option is better. It's not about only choosing an alternative to public school IF, and only if, that alternative is superior in every way. There are certainly ways in which public school beats homeschooling, but if homeschooling is mostly better, then that's the best choice for your family, KWIM?

The other thing I thought of is if you want to be particularly snotty and sarcastic, which is a mood I find myself in occasionally , you could answer with something along the lines of "Well I'm not so sure that public school DOES teach kids to deal with bullies effectively. I mean, I went to public school, and I can't seem to get YOU to leave me alone . . . ." (This would be in response to someone who refuses to respect your decisions and won't leave you alone. To me that's being a bully.)

[junie]

Originally Posted by lynsage

Junie, I agree with you about the bullying experience being relationship-based, and in our case we had to teach DD how to deal with bullies because of a child she is around socially who bullies, takes toys, hits, etc. We talk in advance about how she's going to deal with this child's behavior when she sees them before we go to whatever social event the child is going to be attending, and then she handles it accordingly. I really believe it's a combination of being educated and prepared, and then applying those teachings when the situation arises, that leads to learning.

I definitely agree that coaching helps a child learn, and learn more effectively at that. I think I was a little unclear. I didn't mean that children ONLY need real life experiences to learn, just that real life experiences are necessary. I agree that coaching in conjunction with experience leads to the best results. This is true in other relationships as well. Many couples out there could benefit from marriage prep courses, and certainly many parents would benefit from parenting classes . . .

[mykdsmomy]

Thanks to everyone who's chimed in! I knew I wasn't alone in this and while I'm sorry you are all dealing with similar circumstances, It's comforting to know I have a place to come that can empathize with me

I think I'm sensitive to the bully issue because for 8 years of Catholic private school, I was on the receiving end of teasing/bullying/harassment from my peers.
It didn't make me stronger...it left me with massive scars that I still am dealing with. I tend to be a sensitive person with a lot of anxiety so it affected me deeply.
Plus my mom was EXTREMELY controlling and abusive in many respects.

She thought she was sheltering us by putting us in private school and raising us with basically 0 Tv and yet she is my biggest critic when it comes to homeschooling. Go figure.

[Collinsky]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"

Well, having to deal with ignorant yet oh-so-opinionated people is part and parcel of being a homeschooler, it seems; people disagreeing, being pushy, being rude, pressuring, and possibly even mocking (usually not outright!! Thank goodness!) are all things that one might encounter by NOT going with the status quo. Your child IS learning to cope with negativity, thanks to any "helpful" relative or friend who carries this attitude around. Maybe actually hearing that will make them pause?

[bandgeek]

My dbf says things like this. I've never had to learn to deal with a bully and I'm fine. You know why? Because if someone tries to assault me now, I'd call the police and that person would be in trouble. Why is it ok that kids can beat each other up, but if adults do it, we press charges? So learning to "deal with a bully" is not a skill, it's as simple as keeping a cell phone on you and dialing 911. Or maybe that's just for girls. I'm sure that's too wussy for boys.

I didn't learn to deal with mean teachers. My mom always stepped in and dealt with them. When I got my first job and my boss was evil, I did fine. Even as a teen, I dealt with it and kept that job for over 2 years! How did I learn if I never dealt with the mean teachers? I don't know. Maybe from dealing with people in *general*, not just mean people.

Mean girls? Whatever. That stuff almost completely stops when you leave high school. No sense "learning" to deal with it if everyone eventually grows up.

Peer pressure? Well homeschoolers will encounter that plenty, I'm sure. The fellow homeschooler down the street most definitely try to convince your kid to drink a little from his dad's liquor cabinet, just like any other kid. And your kid will probably experiment with shoplifting/smoking/drinking/sex/ect just like other kids and convince his homeschool buddies it's fun.

[Nickarolaberry]

Originally Posted by junie

"Well I'm not so sure that public school DOES teach kids to deal with bullies effectively. I mean, I went to public school, and I can't seem to get YOU to leave me alone . . . ." (This would be in response to someone who refuses to respect your decisions and won't leave you alone. To me that's being a bully.)

I this line.

The 'dealing with bullies' thing hits very close to home. I went to p.s. and was bullied to the point of molestation as a middle schooler. Now, at that time (1980) we really didn't have the vocabulary or awareness of that kind of thing being an 'issue' but the bully aspect of it was very real, and continued literally until the day I graduate high school (verbal harrassment). I never really had a handle on how to deal with it effectively; it turned me into a negative and depressed person. Thankfully I went on to success in university but the residue and scars never truly disappear. I suffered mightily and begged my parents to switch schools, or not go to school, but there simply was no frame of reference for them and they couldn't do it.

Fast forward...my oldest daughter was the victim of a bully in first grade (private religious school). The school was unwilling or unable to deal with the situation effectively. We coached her on how to respond, role played, etc. but a 6 year old (quiet, thoughtful, sensitive girl) who is continuously targeted does not have the tools to counter a bully without the support of the adults around her. We pulled her out of the school.

Now, as a 9 year old, when she was confronted this year by a 'mean girl' scenario, she stood up for herself and the mean girls' other victim(s) by getting in their faces and shouting "I DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU'RE DOING. STOP IT RIGHT NOW." And they did. She has the tools to deal with it; she knew the adults around her would support her; and she had enough time to develop her inner courage and fortitude -- plus a lot of role play with us on 'what to do when' scenarios.

Anyway.

I loved that blog piece, by the way, on 'socializing' in school. Great thread!

[Jenelle]

Originally Posted by junie

So what? Why does homeschooling have to be superior in every way, in order for it to be a good choice? Why can't it just be mostly better?

Thanks junie and everyone on this thread. I really appreciate the thought-provoking conversation.

The most stimulating conversation I have had other than this, today, was one about how "Yes, your breakfast pizza should taste like breakfast pizza with orange juice on it. ...Because you spilled orange juice on it."

Also thanks to chaoticzenmom for posting the blog link. I enjoyed it a lot.

[prairiebird]

Originally Posted by momtokea

IME, most of the bullying that goes on in schools would be considered harassment and/or assault in the adult world.

Yes, thank you for saying that. I know I get a lot of flack from my family because they think the only reason I homeschool my kids is because I had a horrible time in late elementary school and all through high school.

Sure, it's one of the many reasons I've chosen to homeschool, but I don't think it should be waved off as insignificant. in the 'real world', if someone decides to hurl a condom full of mashed potatoes at me- or at my child- in a crowded room like a library or restaurant, people would likely be horrified and an appropriate action would be taken against the person doing it. My child would learn to deal with this particular assault with strength because of normal society rules in action.

When I was in high school, someone did this to me in a crowed lunch room and other students cheered her. Administration and lunchroom staff did nothing about it, though they asked me if I wanted to eat lunch in a secluded area in the dean's office. What sort of lesson did that teach me? Certainly not something that would apply to the real world, that's for sure!

[rere]

Originally Posted by prairiebird

Yes, thank you for saying that. I know I get a lot of flack from my family because they think the only reason I homeschool my kids is because I had a horrible time in late elementary school and all through high school.

Sure, it's one of the many reasons I've chosen to homeschool, but I don't think it should be waved off as insignificant. in the 'real world', if someone decides to hurl a condom full of mashed potatoes at me- or at my child- in a crowded room like a library or restaurant, people would likely be horrified and an appropriate action would be taken against the person doing it. My child would learn to deal with this particular assault with strength because of normal society rules in action.

When I was in high school, someone did this to me in a crowed lunch room and other students cheered her. Administration and lunchroom staff did nothing about it, though they asked me if I wanted to eat lunch in a secluded area in the dean's office. What sort of lesson did that teach me? Certainly not something that would apply to the real world, that's for sure!

Uhg!I'm sorry this happened to you.And you're right, I think it's much better to let our child learn life lessons in the real world.

[Calidris]

Originally Posted by mykdsmomy

Lately I've been hearing "you are too protective...they need to learn how to deal with bullies/peer pressure/etc" OR "If you shelter them from all the bad, then how are they going to deal with a mean boss or superior that they don't get along with?"

I have found that, in general, it is a lot easier to teach a child how to effectively cope with/understand something when they are a bit older, than when they are still very young.

You could ask why people use baby gates on steps, keep knives away from toddlers, hold their hands while crossing the road. They will eventually need to learn how to handle all those things, but parents generally wait til it is developmentally appropriate to teach them, not toss them in to figure it out for themselves.

(mind you, some homeschooler do seem to be over protective, and sheltering, and I'm sure that is where the stereotype comes from, but I am assuming you are not one of those )