What would you have done?

[peaceful_mama]

The situation:
5 and 3 year old. Grocery store.

They've been briefed on expected behavior in the grocery store. They've done very well. We're now in the checkout line.
As we enter this line (the usual fall-apart place for my kids, no matter HOW WELL they've done) they are again briefed on expected behavior while Mommy pays for the groceries.

They are in one of those lovely car carts. DS gets into the basket. Then DD wants to, but I say no as I see the argument that would ensue. Then I scoot them past the candy to the end.

While I am paying--and it's a long process--had to call a manager over, all kinds of fun. My children start banging the lovely car cart, bouncing it in a way that looks like it could end up with both of them on the floor and a trip to the ER--*so* not what I need this week!

I go over and tell them they need to STOP--and remind them we were *supposed to* be going to the library to get movies, but now we're not. (they've interrupted my interaction with the cashier, card-usage, signing three times by this point, in roughly 3 minutes.)

They stop. For about a minute.

We talked about it in the car, and NO, I did NOT buy them their usual treat at our next stop, the health food store, nor did I take them to the library. We drove up and dropped off the one movie that had to be back.

I wonder though--I think I take away all incentive to change behavior by being a little too quick to punish?

Would you have done what I did? they were reminded about the library trip, they talked about it before we went in the store, while we were shopping, they knew.
Or would you have started with a smaller consequence like "We're going to the HFstore next and I am not buying a treat there because of this behavior, if you continue to interrupt, we are not going to the library." (They got a "treat" at the store we were at, a mango. Not as a reward, they love fruit and they get to pick out something we don't *always* buy when they come. They *love* these juice drinks at the health food store, those are the "treat" whenever we go there. they love them, so it's motivating. (all I was doing was running in to grab PB, I would've also grabbed the drinks.)

[LaughingHyena]

That sounds familiar, I also have a 5 and 3 year old and shopping is OK till we reach the checkouts.

For us I think it is partly that I can keep them busy while we shop,counting carrots into the bag, giving them each an item to find and so on. Once we reach the checkout there is less to keep them involved and more to keep my attention as I pack the bags and stuff.

Giving them each their own shopping bag to pack sometimes helps (they each have kid sized ones). Giving them something they can eat straight away is also good. In some ways I have just come to accept that the checkout part is hard for us all so I don't tend to base my next step on that part of the trip alone.

If it is generally a bad day we will go straight home, not as punishment but just if everyone is tierd/grumpy/hungry it's probably not the best day to go to the library. If they were generally good but things fell apart for a short time while I was not able to give them my full attention then we will probably have a snack in the car and carry on with the rest of the plans.

[pianojazzgirl]

I find that giving them a treat that they can eat in the checkout line helps (usually for my kids that means a fruit leather). Also I get my 5 yr old involved in putting the items on the counter. For my 2 yr old though it's all about having something (ie. treat) to keep him occupied while I pay. The promise of a treat afterwards does nothing for him - he's not able to modify his behaviour in the promise of a reward later. I just use the snack to keep him busy in the moment. I talk to them quite a bit about expectations in all kinds of situations, including the grocery store, but I do know that the check-out is the hardest part for them so I try to bear that in mind and a) have the distracting snack at the ready, and b) try to keep my expectations reasonably low.

[Dandelionkid]

Tough one! Been there done that I have a friend who is the master of the consequences framed in a more understandable way. I think that the health food store consequence is a little removed from the behavior of the moment. I also think that they were bored and acting in an age appropriate, although annoying, manner. Especially if it was taking longer than normal. I like the idea to get a treat for them to eat in the line-up. My kids love picking one candy from the bulk bins that they eat after it is rung through.

[Wild Lupine]

My least favorite parenting activity is grocery shopping with my children. So I feel for you. I've had scenes like that myself, not fun.

When things like that happen now I focus on distracting and entertaining them right now. When they're bored and restless the promise of a treat later isn't going to give them the impulse control to hold it together longer than five seconds. I relax some of our standards at those times- ie., I don't usually do impulse buys, but if there's a sticker packet at the checkout, I buy one and give it to them immediately, or let them look at photos on my iPod, which I also don't ordinarily do. They often have those orange 'sold' stickers at grocery checkouts and clerks are usually happy to give them to the kids, and I give them a pen to draw happy faces. If I'm not having to talk with checker, I sing songs with the kids (and believe me, I'm a crappy singer) and try to ignore the stares.

The last time I went to the grocery store virtually every child under the age of six was holding a cookie from the bakery. Non-parents might call it bribery. Parents, though, know it is a relatively benign strategy for surviving the shopping trip.

[One_Girl]

Those are really hard ages and it is really hard to do much beyond trying to prevent that type of behavior once you are in line and paying. I used to hold onto the cart and make my dd stay buckled up when she was in the car cart so she couldn't tip it. Any unsafe behavior led to the loss of the car cart privelage. I only had to switch her out of the cart once for her to understand that I was serious. I also used to save the cookie for the end and bring a snack in a ziplock bag so she would eat her cookie and not drive me crazy in line. The cookie may or may not be a bribe, but I really don't mind occassionaly bribing my dd when she has no internal motivation to behave well. Now that she is seven she is awesome at shopping and I let her get the cookie when we pass the bakery.

[dpeacey]

I agree. Cookie or sanity. Hmmmm ... in my imperfect world, the cookie always wins. Of course, that doesn't stop me from feeling guilty about it.

One more trick I have is to let one of the kids "pay" with my debit or credit card. They loooove swiping my card -- sometimes I even just let them swipe an empty gift card.

And when I am shopping alone, and I see a mama in a melt-down situation, and try to offer to help (maybe I have stickers in my purse), give a look of empathy, or at the very least send loving vibes. It is always somebody's turn, even if it is not me.

[BetsyNY]

That's not just the usual fall-apart place for your kids; it's the fall-apart place for *every* kid. Or kids I know, anyway.

The only time I'd skip our next two stops is if I felt that they really, really couldn't handle it, and another shopping trip would be putting us all in a potentially bad situation. I wouldn't skip the library or HFS. Kids aren't perfect, they don't behave perfectly all the time. I guess my expectations are lower than yours.

[childsplay]

I agree with the others. Let them eat their way through the boring grocery store checkout.
I quite often shop with 3, 4 or 5 kids (all under 7) and usually they're nothing short of angelic during the actual shopping trip. But once we hit the checkout, aka, the 10'th portal of hell, with it's shiny new magazines, more chocolate bars than any 3 year old could ever imagine, racks of bright colored bubble gum, and of course a fridge full of soda with a door just asking to be opened and slammed repeatedly by any one of the kids, well, the poop hits the fan. I've had three kids laying on the floor sobbing, one opening and chewing on a candy bar and another headed for the hills at different times. I tried the promising a treat later deal. They didn't or couldn't even hear it, they're just too young to think in that (rational) way. They need instant gratification.

Now I just stuff them with food as we're waiting, fruit leathers are great (and cheap), apples, cheese slices, raisins, cookies, I've even ripped open a loaf of bread to keep them happy. Seriously, I'd chew off my arm and give it to them if we can just get through the lineup without crying or injury.

A bit off topic, but wouldn't it be cool if the carts came with small mounted computers in which we could scan our own items as we place them in the cart, then give out credit card or debit card a swipe and pay right there? And avoid the whole line up? That would be my greatest day : )

[BetsyNY]

Originally Posted by childsplay

A bit off topic, but wouldn't it be cool if the carts came with small mounted computers in which we could scan our own items as we place them in the cart, then give out credit card or debit card a swipe and pay right there? And avoid the whole line up? That would be my greatest day : )

I've seen this! Not mounted, but like the little scanner guns. They have them at Stop n' Shop in my area (NY). You scan all your purchases and at the end you pay.

[ssh]

I don't punish for annoying grocery store behavior, so we would have still gone to the library. We may have skipped the health food store if my DD didn't seem to be able to deal with shopping. My 4 year old DD has a very intense, high energy temperament so I know sometimes she just can't be appropriately still or quiet. If things really aren't working, we leave and I come back alone once my DH is home. Usually just asking DD if I need to come back later alone is enough to help her control herself a bit more. The behavior is improving alot with age. Snacks do help with shopping.

Two of the grocery stores we shop at have a horse ride that costs a penny for one ride. If I'm in line right across from it and no one is on it I let DD ride it while I check out. If there are kids on it, we still wait and she can ride it after we check out. My DD seems to behave much better in those two stores. I think it's the anticipation of getting to do something fun after checking out.

[jewelsJZ]

Originally Posted by childsplay

I agree with the others. Let them eat their way through the boring grocery store checkout.
I quite often shop with 3, 4 or 5 kids (all under 7) and usually they're nothing short of angelic during the actual shopping trip. But once we hit the checkout, aka, the 10'th portal of hell, with it's shiny new magazines, more chocolate bars than any 3 year old could ever imagine, racks of bright colored bubble gum, and of course a fridge full of soda with a door just asking to be opened and slammed repeatedly by any one of the kids, well, the poop hits the fan. I've had three kids laying on the floor sobbing, one opening and chewing on a candy bar and another headed for the hills at different times. I tried the promising a treat later deal. They didn't or couldn't even hear it, they're just too young to think in that (rational) way. They need instant gratification.

Now I just stuff them with food as we're waiting, fruit leathers are great (and cheap), apples, cheese slices, raisins, cookies, I've even ripped open a loaf of bread to keep them happy. Seriously, I'd chew off my arm and give it to them if we can just get through the lineup without crying or injury.

A bit off topic, but wouldn't it be cool if the carts came with small mounted computers in which we could scan our own items as we place them in the cart, then give out credit card or debit card a swipe and pay right there? And avoid the whole line up? That would be my greatest day : )

Laughing so hard, tears are flowing. Will def. be reading this to my hubby and best friend. This so describes many of our trips to the grocery store.

My favorite thing is to take them to Wegman's and put the older two in child care. That's right. Child care in the grocery store. Brilliant. Staffed by sweet moms and grandmas; coloring, play kitchen, etc. Then I only have to take the baby around the store and through the line and he is happy with Cheerios while we check out. But, if I'm at another store or the child care is full at Wegmans or we are just running in for a few things, then I keep snacks in my purse. For the 5 year old, he can have my iphone and look at pics or play a game I downloaded for him. Or we bring his handheld Leapster game. The 3 year old is happy to hold a credit card or something out of my purse, I keep one of her little pink lip glosses in there and she uses that.

Yup, the name of the game is distraction in the check out. And if that all doesn't work, we just go on with the rest of the day, because I don't need kids fussing and screaming at the next stop because they can't have their treat previously promised. And I don't want to skip a stop because I usually want to go there too. And I was good in the check out line, so why should I have to miss out on the next stop?

[JL83]

I guess we take another approach.

I don't want to do something like take a trip to the library away. We don't consider that a "treat" in our house. So, the trips wouldn't be combined.

DD, who is 3, can now handle well 2 stops. Before now, 2 stops was tough on her. And something like grocery shopping is still a stand alone trip.

I've never experienced the checkout line issue. But we get alot of "I want that! I want that!!!! WAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!" as we pass things in the aisles.

We take 2 approaches. If I know she's in an iffy mood, then before she acts up (because I REFUSE to reward bad behavior with a treat) we stop at the bakery and get 1 cookie. But, most of the time, we're just firm. If she acts up, then we leave. I've left the cart at the check-out exactly once. I asked them not to put the things away and we went out to the car. DD threw a really epic fit, she was really really mad. Once she calmed down we talked about the proper behavior and how I would not tolerate what she was doing. Then we went back in and I paid for my nicely bagged groceries.

We've taken the cart to customer service and asked them to hold it a couple times too. They are happy to do that.

But, I'm a hardass about public behavior.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by BetsyNY

I've seen this! Not mounted, but like the little scanner guns. They have them at Stop n' Shop in my area (NY). You scan all your purchases and at the end you pay.

It seems like a good idea and it's fine if you only have a few items, but in general it takes a lot more effort than you'd think and I found myself going to the checker line instead.

OP, I am glad you posted. I find myself giving warnings but they just drag out the process and never work and I'm wondering if any discipline is useful or if I should just give up.

[elmh23]

I involve my kids actively in the shopping/paying process. My 5 year old crosses off list items for me and then helps me put items on the conveyer belt. My almost 3 year old sits in the front seat and holds things for me and then helps put things on the belt at the end. They both talk to the check out person cause we usually go at the same times so we see the same people.

Honestly, the only thing I would have done in your situation- avoid those damn car carts! The one time I used that thing they were hell beasts! It seems they can't handle the grocery store in that stupid thing (and also, when ds was around 20 months, he shop lifted a can of refried beans!)

[peaceful_mama]

So.....the checkout line is the 10th portal of hell and I should be prepared to either buy something during the trip that they can have one of at the checkout (like a box of granola bars or something not like fruit that has to be weighed, so technically, you are shoplifting.... or well, fruit that is priced by the item not the pound.) or just buy a candy to get through the moment. Can do that.

I have to say I am a spoiled rotten brat in this department--during the last 5 years, I can probably count on my hands with a few left over how many times I have grocery shopped with more than an infant. Either DH did it and I just lived with what he bought, when my mom didn't live with us, she'd bring stuff on her way to watch DS while I worked (we're talking the last minute loaf of bread, milk kind of thing) and now my mom lives here so we take turns--or things happen like I take DS to school and she watches one or both of the others. and THEN I go to the store.

This was a quick run in for fruits and veggies basically. Not a full blown shop--see above, I don't do those with all of them!

And I agree, any baby is usually a dream to take. Took DS2 to the store I think it was the day after this incident--he is 14 months old. We went to two stores, he checked out people, smiled at me, held interesting stuff and traded it for other interesting stuff as we shopped. and 3 people told us how cute he is. I *LIKE* shopping with baby.

The incident in question happened the day we had a washing machine repairman in, so I took the kids out just so they wouldn't be bugging him--and we happened to be just about out of all things living in the fridge and it was hours before an ice storm was supposed to hit. It *had* to be done, LOL.

I *want* to be hard on public behavior but 99% of the time I'm alone and I have a 5 year old who *typically* behaves well and then there's his just-turned-3 year old sister....

[MamaHappy]

Originally Posted by elmh23

I involve my kids actively in the shopping/paying process. My 5 year old crosses off list items for me and then helps me put items on the conveyer belt. My almost 3 year old sits in the front seat and holds things for me and then helps put things on the belt at the end. They both talk to the check out person cause we usually go at the same times so we see the same people.

Honestly, the only thing I would have done in your situation- avoid those damn car carts! The one time I used that thing they were hell beasts! It seems they can't handle the grocery store in that stupid thing (and also, when ds was around 20 months, he shop lifted a can of refried beans!)

This. I also try to involve my kids as much as possible in the shopping process. And I agree, I HATE those damn carts!!! I avoid them at all costs, lol.

I also reward my kids for good behavior in the grocery store. If they've been appropiate, they can share a doughnut at the end of the trip. If they haven't, then do donut. I usually don't reward with food, but it works for me in this case.

[BetsyNY]

I *want* to be hard on public behavior but 99% of the time I'm alone and I have a 5 year old who *typically* behaves well and then there's his just-turned-3 year old sister....

From what you said, you WERE hard on them, so you did what you set out to do.

[peaceful_mama]

well, this time I was...probably a little much so, as I realized about the time we were leaving the store...a "so wait, I just took away a trip to the library, what incentive did I leave to change this behavior?" um, NONE.

it would be like if I went to work and they didn't like something I did so they said they were going to quit paying me, but I still had to work and improve my work to get my pay back...um, most of us would probably walk out the door to that deal.

Lesson learned...rather than trying to get them to change their checkout-behavior when I can't pay attention to them, this is one moment where a little distraction is well called for!

[sapphire_chan]

I do find it bizarre that one bad behavior cancels all fun activities while their good behavior up until then didn't result in any extra fun activities.

And then what do you do if they do something like start screaming in the car? You've already removed the fun activities for the day, so you'd have to have them not play with their toys or something.

Anyway my inclination would be that the treat at the healthfood store goes away because there isn't time to pick one out and go to the library. I wouldn't take away the library because that punishes them for the whole week and it punishes me.

Realistically though, what would be lost would be the option to use the car cart since they weren't safe with it today. But I'd give them a chance to act safely with it by telling them that what they are doing is unsafe and then need to sit still or get out of it immediately. And that I appreciate how they've behaved so far and know that they can hang in there for 5 more minutes.

ETA:
Now that I've read the BTDT mama responses, Lina'll be getting a snack.