Fat Vs Carbs

[TonyaW]

Today I was watching a nature show about grizzly bears and wolves. I found it interesting that the bear eats a lot of high fat foods like salmon and nuts/seeds to pack on the weight before hibernation. While I know bears are very different from humans, it did get me wondering. Grizzly bears are much like humans in that they omnivores even eating greens.

Lately I have been struggling about how I should eat, seeing all the posts about eliminating grains and lower carb to lose weight. I did cut way, way down on grains and added fat and then gained weight. Recently I started eating much more grain again and haven't put on weight, but haven't lost weight either. I am totally confused by this because in my heart I believe eating lower carb without grain is healthier, but when I did so I just put on more weight. When I entered my diet into fitday when I cut way down on grain, my fat was close to 60%, carbs were 20%. Do those who eat lower carb just eat a lot less food or what. I think my calories were around 2000 and I am still nursing. I feel like I eat a lot! When I was reading Mark's Daily Apple about what he eats, it seemed like he doesn't eat much.

Yes, I have checked for food sensitivities and recently found out I am allergic to dairy which I am struggling to eliminate but have cut way down on it.

Why have I put on so much weight since I started eating more fat. I am so frustrated!

[cristeen]

The thing that jumps out at me is 20% carbs... that's still a LOT of carbs. If you're eating 2000 calories a day, that's 400 calories just of carbs. Most low carb diets have you closer to 20 grams/day than 20%. And honestly, combining grain carbs with high fat is just a recipe for disaster, IME.

And yes, people who are eating low carb / grain free tend to be eating a lot less food after the adjustment period.

[EdnaMarie]

Well, my answer isn't super traditional, but I personally think that different people need different kinds of foods at different times in their lives. I think our cravings say something about us. Now, just because I crave sweets when sad, does not mean that if I were to get depressed, I would "need" to eat refined sugar every day.

When I eat low carb, it's because I'm eating a TON of fats.

But the reason you may be putting on weight is that if you are still nursing, your body is trying to keep weight on to keep your nursling in a good supply. It could just be hormones.

When a bear eats a lot of calories from fat, that may just be because those fats are available at that time, and lucky bear, she can get more calories from fish and nuts. Remember that fish and nuts are only in season for a time, not year-round, so the bear isn't like choosing fish over blueberries necessarily. She's eating what is available.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by cristeen

The thing that jumps out at me is 20% carbs... that's still a LOT of carbs. If you're eating 2000 calories a day, that's 400 calories just of carbs. Most low carb diets have you closer to 20 grams/day than 20%. And honestly, combining grain carbs with high fat is just a recipe for disaster, IME.

And yes, people who are eating low carb / grain free tend to be eating a lot less food after the adjustment period.

When I was logging this, the carbs were coming from milk, banana and honey in my coffee but no grains. There may have been a potato thrown in that day and lots of veggies. That doesn't seem like too many carbs to me. If I had less, I was really hungry. I couldn't imagine only eating 20 grams of carbs in one day. It seems like when I eat mostly fat and protein I don't stay full for more than an hour or two.

[TonyaW]

Originally Posted by EdnaMarie

Well, my answer isn't super traditional, but I personally think that different people need different kinds of foods at different times in their lives. I think our cravings say something about us. Now, just because I crave sweets when sad, does not mean that if I were to get depressed, I would "need" to eat refined sugar every day.

When I eat low carb, it's because I'm eating a TON of fats.

But the reason you may be putting on weight is that if you are still nursing, your body is trying to keep weight on to keep your nursling in a good supply. It could just be hormones.

When a bear eats a lot of calories from fat, that may just be because those fats are available at that time, and lucky bear, she can get more calories from fish and nuts. Remember that fish and nuts are only in season for a time, not year-round, so the bear isn't like choosing fish over blueberries necessarily. She's eating what is available.

I am nursing a 3 year old one time a day. Do you think that would contribute to weight gain from nursing?

[cristeen]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

When I was logging this, the carbs were coming from milk, banana and honey in my coffee but no grains. There may have been a potato thrown in that day and lots of veggies. That doesn't seem like too many carbs to me. If I had less, I was really hungry. I couldn't imagine only eating 20 grams of carbs in one day. It seems like when I eat mostly fat and protein I don't stay full for more than an hour or two.

Like I said, after the adjustment period. You have to realize that it takes about a week for your body to adjust to burning fat for fuel (from burning sugar). During that week you will feel like you're starving, so you need to plan ahead with plenty of snacks that are high in protein. Once you get through that week though, your appetite drops dramatically. When I'm going through that transition, I tend to keep a cold roast, plenty of cheese, nuts, deviled eggs on hand to snack whenever I feel the need.

[TonyaW]

Is it possible to do this sort of thing during pregnancy as I am TTC too? I find I really crave creamy milky things and carbs when pregnant, like grilled cheese. I really didn't gain anything in my last pregnancy when all was said and done and I ate probably 4-6 pieces of sprouted grain bread a day. I gave birth and was back to post postpartum weight within 2 weeks. Although within 3 years I have put on a lot of weight, about 15 pounds.

I wish eating higher fat and protein didn't cost so much. I am struggling with, should I eat more organic soaked/sprouted carbs or spend money on lower quality proteins.

[jplain]

Yep, there's that adjustment period. It can last up to a week or so, but it does go away. Once you get through it, hunger becomes an entirely new sensation. For starters, hunger will not occur as frequently as before. And when it does, it is much more subtle and much more manageable.

Milk + honey + banana + potato is an awful lot of fast-acting carbohydrate. Any one of those items could spike your blood sugar dramatically. Assuming you have a healthy insulin response, your body will bring it down as quickly as possible, and you'll probably end up with lower blood sugar than before you ate. This'll trigger hunger, and another round of carbohydrate intake. And the cycle continues....

I agree with cristeen. If you want to go low-carb, stock up on proteins and fats to snack on whenever you get hungry during the adjustment period. Nuts can be a good choice, but choose lower carb nuts (ie. macadamias).

Good luck!

[readytobedone]

i'm not sure i understand...you can't eat like a bear because you're not a bear

also, bears are fat

[Theoretica]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

Today I was watching a nature show about grizzly bears and wolves. I found it interesting that the bear eats a lot of high fat foods like salmon and nuts/seeds to pack on the weight before hibernation. While I know bears are very different from humans, it did get me wondering. Grizzly bears are much like humans in that they omnivores even eating greens.

Lately I have been struggling about how I should eat, seeing all the posts about eliminating grains and lower carb to lose weight. I did cut way, way down on grains and added fat and then gained weight. Recently I started eating much more grain again and haven't put on weight, but haven't lost weight either. I am totally confused by this because in my heart I believe eating lower carb without grain is healthier, but when I did so I just put on more weight. When I entered my diet into fitday when I cut way down on grain, my fat was close to 60%, carbs were 20%. Do those who eat lower carb just eat a lot less food or what. I think my calories were around 2000 and I am still nursing. I feel like I eat a lot! When I was reading Mark's Daily Apple about what he eats, it seemed like he doesn't eat much.

Yes, I have checked for food sensitivities and recently found out I am allergic to dairy which I am struggling to eliminate but have cut way down on it.

Why have I put on so much weight since I started eating more fat. I am so frustrated!

I think you answered your own question Wouldn't it make sense, following the logic of the bear's diet, that since a bear eats fat to pack on weight that you would when you do the same?

[Marsupialmom]

I would strongly encourage you to read through all of Atkins diet and his phases. It is more than the first phase!

IMO, people's bodies are diffferent. You might need to stay away from the process "white" carbs for a long time. Once you get to your idea weight then you can do the "white" carbs but in small portions.

[tanyalynn]

I don't have an answer, I'll just share what's helped DH and me lose weight (and conversely, gain weight when we're not doing it). But it's clearly not a solution, just a couple data points.

Me: weight dropped off effortlessly for me when I completely removed my food allergens, then carbs didn't matter, I ate til I was full, fairly high fat but not 60% I don't think... even small amounts of gluten and dairy mess me up, I jump in weight, both due to inflammation and I think it messes with my appetite

DH: same diet as above didn't do a thing, his slow increase kept on, but lately we've figured out that in addition to no gluten/dairy (whole household), if we do lower carb, he loses weight and feels good--but it's not 20g/day, we're not counting grams and it's definitely higher, but lots of veggies, not much fruit (non-zero amounts though), a basic mix of meat or eggs, veggies, and a somewhat starchy veggie like carrots, occasionally potatoes or very occasional grains (goal is grain-free, struggling with that)... so not truly low carb to lose weight and feel better

So all that was to say, it seems like _something_ else is going on, but I'm not sure it's the usual solutions (unless you're as sensitive to dairy as I am, or you've got another food allergen).

How many people need to be at the 20g carb/day to not gain weight? I guess there are some, but it seems like it'd be a fairly small number, wouldn't it?

Anyway, not exactly helpful, but trying to throw out ideas. Anything else in your health that seems odd, quirky? Maybe one of the solutions to that would also be involved here.

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

I think you answered your own question Wouldn't it make sense, following the logic of the bear's diet, that since a bear eats fat to pack on weight that you would when you do the same?

no, because we aren't bears. Bears eat an enormous amount of food (like 30 lbs a week) to purposely pack on the fat to go through torpor (bears don't really hibernate). They are equipped with survival mechanisms that humans don't have, which include the development of a thick fat layer.

[Theoretica]

Wouldn't it make sense though, that eating a diet of 60% fat would likely cause someone to gain weight? Fat is WAY more calorie dense so...

I'm not trying to be difficult I just really don't understand the confusion about why the OP would gain weight when eating a very high proportion of fat?

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

Wouldn't it make sense though, that eating a diet of 60% fat would likely cause someone to gain weight? Fat is WAY more calorie dense so...

I'm not trying to be difficult I just really don't understand the confusion about why the OP would gain weight when eating a very high proportion of fat?

Strange as it sounds, quite a few people seem to lose weight when they up their fat and reduce carbs. I haven't read it, but Mary Enig (with Fallon?) wrote a book with this premise, Eat Fat Lose Fat, that many people seem to enjoy and benefit from.

I think it has to do with how the higher fat, lower carb diet modifies their appetite. They eat less. I think I eat less when I don't eat gluten or dairy--they do something weird to my appetite. High fat diets seem to do the same for many other people.

[Equuskia]

Originally Posted by Theoretica

Wouldn't it make sense though, that eating a diet of 60% fat would likely cause someone to gain weight? Fat is WAY more calorie dense so...

I'm not trying to be difficult I just really don't understand the confusion about why the OP would gain weight when eating a very high proportion of fat?

Well, if you eat an enormous amount of anything which greatly exceeds your caloric needs, then yeah, you would get fat. What I'm trying to say is, we cannot compare human metabolism to a bear's metabolism, because a bear has mechanisms in place to allow a bear to eat a large amount of fat.

Now, a normal human will usually feel satisfied after eating a fat laden meal, and that fullness will last longer than say, eating a equal sized carb meal. Fat does not usually get metabolized into fat, but carbs definitely do, especially things like refined carbs and sweeteners with high amounts of fructose. HFCS is one that goes straight through the liver and to your thighs/butt/belly.

[EdnaMarie]

Originally Posted by TonyaW

I am nursing a 3 year old one time a day. Do you think that would contribute to weight gain from nursing?

Ya know, babies suck the life out of me. So if that were me, I'd say no. But it's you. What I"m trying to say is you need to listen to your body and within reason, eat what your body is telling you to eat. Maybe you need grains right now.

But, I'm not a religious follower of TF. I'm more... influenced by the philosophy than attached to it. : If you're gaining and you're hungry, then maybe you need to try a different balance.

[jplain]

Caloric excess may pack on pounds, but no, eating fat a diet that is 60% fat doesn't make you fat.

Eating excess CARBS will make you fat, because that's how your body deals with excess carbs.

The Enig/Fallon book mentioned would be a great start. For a more detailed historical and scientific discussion, the book Good Calories, Bad Calories is a great read.

[wholewheatchick]

I'm still kind of new to all this, so I'm sorry if my answer is "wrong." But it seems to me that you do very well on a slightly higher carb diet. You said that you barely gained weight during your pregnancy when you were eating 6 slices of bread per day. I think, as someone else mentioned, that our bodies are individual, and need different things at different times in our life. I also think that some people do better on different diets/different proportions of macro nutrients.

My DH, for instance, can eat carbs until forever, and not gain an ounce. That just seems to be how his body chemistry works. I eat a fair amount of carbs, but am considering cutting down because they make me feel too full, and then I get hungry too soon. I guess what I'm saying is that it's a balancing act. And just because your mind wants to try a new diet plan, doesn't mean that it is the best for your body. Of course, this may all be transition, as the other women have said. But I guess since you do seem to do well with more grains, I'm wondering if you really need to decrease them for health and weight benefits?

[FairyRae]

I find the Mark's Daily Apple blog really helpful--the carbohydrate curve is something you might want to check out. IMO, 20g carbs is VERY low, and I don't know that I personally could do it (at least not right now. I'm nursing and just like my carbs!) I do keep my carbs around 100-150g a day which, according to MDA is the maintenance range. To lose weight he recs getting 50-100g carbs a day.

2000 calories is a lot when you are eating a higher fat, moderate protein, lower carb diet. It will just be really filling. For me, the first step was just going totally grain free, eating to my hunger, and not worrying about carbs. I think I naturally started decreasing them. I still ate potatoes, legumes and fruit (we are gluten/dairy/soy/corn free here, so dairy wasn't an issue for us.) I now don't do legumes except peanuts/pb (they are just too much of a pain to prepare in a way that doesn't upset my digestion.)

I agree w/ Tanya that sensitivities can play a role--I lots TONS of weight effortlessly, not thinking about carbs or fat etc. when I dropped gluten, dairy and others (and basically all processed/packaged foods.) Totally cutting out dairy might be something you should look into if you think you're sensitive to it.

Going grain free has fine tuned my weight loss, caused me to lose bloating in my belly area, and just makes me feel really good. I've more recently looked into carbs and, like I said, keep them in a maintenance range of 100-150 g, but I don't stress over it. (Fitday.com can be helpful for figuring out carb counts of certain foods in the beginning.) I do eat a/b 60% fat as well, and don't ever feel like I gain weight from it. Carbs + fat though, I think that could be/is a recipe for weight gain. We are all so different though, I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all diet. I do think we evolved to eat a grain-free, more primal/paleo style diet, but that's my opinion, and that's w/ a varying amount of carbs for each of us...

Good luck figuring out what works best *for you*!