need advice about 17 month old DD and church

[rach03]

Will probably be long, I apologize up front!!!

We've started going to church with some friends of ours....we recently moved and have found a church near our home that we like. One of the things that has kept me from going over the past couple years has been the fact that I knew my kids would not take well to being left in the nursery. DS is 4 now and bounds off without a second thought...no problems there. My 17 month old DD I knew would not be happy in the nursery because she's never been apart from me.

The first several times I kept her with me. The first time she slept, the second time she was awake but quiet. The next two times I couldn't stay in the service because she quickly got antsy and started making too much noise. So those times I ended up following her as she walked around inside the church (but outside of the room the service is in) and I caught bits and pieces of the service on the tv that they stream it on live. I didn't really get much out of it that way. I didn't get much out of it when I had her with me in there, either...I was too worried about occupying her.

So I'm not quite sure what went through my mind, but I thought I'd try leaving her last weekend. Yeah, it was as bad as I expected. By the time I picked her up she was red and puffy from crying, and I felt like the crappiest mama ever. I cried probably as much as she had in those 30 minutes.

I feel like that's pretty much the same thing as letting her cry it out at night, which of course I have never ever done! She doesn't know those people, doesn't want to be there...I don't blame her for being upset. I feel awful. Why in the world did I think she wouldn't freak out?

I just don't know what to do. I can't keep her with me in the service because she makes too much noise. If I walk around with her and catch bits and pieces on the TV I'm not really getting anything out of it, so I feel like I might as well not go. I can't leave her with a family member at home because although we do live in the same city, my mom's house is like 40 minutes from mine so it's not like I could do a quick drop off. The church does have a very small "nursing" room which I've never seen anyone in (I have seen mamas nursing their babies in the main room, so yay for that!)...but they said it's not sound proof so it's not really a "cry" room for older babies.

I just sure as heck know I can't do that to her again.

I'm just curious what other attached mamas do about their little ones and church. I know this is the prime age for separation anxiety on top of her being used to having me around 24/7, so that makes it even worse. Can anyone share some advice or experience with me? Thanks.

[claddaghmom]

We take it one time at a time. Maximizing the time with DD's schedule helps. We go to a later Mass so she sleeps through most of it.

Although when she was smaller we would sneak little puffs to her to keep her quiet, I've found that food and drink (and toys) tend to become extremely disruptive and habitual as they get older. So we've cut out everything except a little cloth religious book and her baby doll. (and of course nursing on demand).

She is doing a lot better these days. I think it helps to monitor your stress levels b/c they can pick up on it and it will stress them out, too. Sometimes I think I've been stressed or self-conscious which in turn caused her to get wriggly and fussy.

[woodchick]

Forgive me if I'm scattered. I have several thoughts...

My DD2 is 10mos and I'm lucky if I catch half the service these days. She'll sit quietly with me for a while, but I almost always end up in the nursery with her. It comes with the territory unfortunately.

One of the reasons that you're going to church, I'd assume, is that you're hoping to develop relationship and a comfortable church home for your children. That's something that can only happen over time- your kids will get to know the other folks there and maybe start feeling more comfortable in the nursery. Until then you'll probably do a lot of pacing.

Maybe try having some special, quiet, church only toys that might keep her attention?

Would your friends be willing to trade off walking with your daughter during the service? DH and I alternated Sundays for two years with DD1.

Does the nursery stream the sermon? Could you sit in the nursery with your daughter while she plays and gets to know some of the nursery workers?

I find these issues to be annoying, myself, but I know that I'm am 'in for the long haul' as far as church is concerned and that this is just a short stage. In no time at all I'll be back to making it through the whole service!

[rach03]

Thank you guys for the thoughts!

I definitely want my kids to be comfortable there and I know that will take time...I'm just not sure how to go about getting her comfortable with being there when she totally hates it. I can't stand to see her that upset.

This is a big-ish (not huge, but not small) church so the security for the nursery is very high. Parents are not allowed to sit in the nursery rooms with the kids. You can watch from the door to your child's room, but you can't go in the room to stay. I'm okay with that policy for the purposes of security, but it does make it very hard for me to help DD get used to being there when I can't go in with her at all.

I'm sure my stress and worry makes her more fidgety. I didn't really think about alternating walking outside with her with DH just because she usually wants me more than she does him. I don't mind walking with her...getting bits and peices of the sermon is better than nothing at all.

I just want her to be happy. I knew better than to leave her, I'm still not sure why I did.

[mokey4]

Just an idea- maybe if you stay with her in the nursery a few times she'll get comfortable enough for you to leave her there? Maybe you could try leaving her for just a few minutes at first and see if she is ok with it?

I can imagine how difficult it must be to try to pay attention to a service while chasing around a toddler. This is why I haven't made any effort to go to services in the last few months. I did go to services on Rosh Hashanah (I'm jewish) and at that time DD was around 7 months and while she wasn't mobile she was too noisy to keep in the sanctuary. I took her to the kids service but she didn't get anything religious out of it and it didn't satisfy my spiritual appetite.

[mokey4]

Just saw your response that staying in the nursery isn't possible... that's too bad, but understandable i guess.

We tried to take DD to a christmas mass service when she was around 10 months (my husband is christian)- oh boy, we lasted about 10 minutes before we realized that wasn't going to work.

[MaterPrimaePuellae]

Wow, I am totally there myself.

The church we were attending when DD was born has what was, IMO, a pretty bad nursery situation. The room was staffed with one paid worker, and then the entire church roster rotated through as "volunteers." (It was NOT voluntary. Once you became a member, you were added to the rotation, and if you wanted to be taken off, you had to call and explain why you believed you were not qualified). People did NOT like doing it, and I didn't at all like the idea of my daughter being cared for my people who didn't want to be there (or had who knew what other issues). I mean, these people were taking potty-training children into the bathrooms alone! Goodness.

So, I left my daughter a couple of times when I knew the volunteers (bad experience for both of us, just like you-- IMO, it's worse than CIO), and then I also volunteered frequently myself. It sounds like that's not even an option for you.

Right now, we've moved and are looking for a new church. DD is 3, and possibly old enough to decide that she wants to go to Sunday School herself (though I highly doubt she would say she wants to until she developed friendships with other children, and that takes her months)... and we'll have a new baby in two months, so then we start all over again!

I don't know what to do. I used to think, "All these people need to get over their idea that church needs to be 100% silent and solemn and just accept that there will be babies there," but now DD has become pretty difficult. IT's one thing to hear a wimpering baby; it's another thing to head DD the ENTIRE service.

Right now, I think Dh and will 1) definitely only attend a church with a cry room, for baby2 and 2) take DD into the service with us w/ a zero tolerance policy-- one loud noise, and she's out to sit quietly in the foyer with Dh till the service is over. I don't know how else to teach her to sit quietly, which she has to learn eventually, anyway.. It's so hard.

[woodchick]

Are the nursery workers the same each week? Would there be anyway for your DD to get to know them (with you) outside of the service time? Maybe they could stay for a short time after church and interact wtih her? Or could you have them over for coffee some day?

Or maybe make friends with the other kids's parents and have THEM over with their kiddos. 17mos is a bit early for making friends, but being familiar with them might ease her into the nursery.

We go to a pretty small church (less than 100 people on a normal Sunday). Over the past three weeks I've had three different people come up and compliment DH and I on our dedication to bringing the girls to church, even though they can tell it is tricky. I'm not saying this to compliment myself, but to say that other parishioners have noticed that our once very figity, loud, uncomfortable-in-church DD1 has become a sweet little member of the congregation.

Also, no one seems to mind a little baby chatter from DD2. And lately she has taken to cruising up and down the aisle holding on to the ends of the pews. I feel a little bad for distracting folks from the service, but I am always reassured that they think she's cute and they don't mind.

If you like this church and are finding it a good fit for you and DH I'm sure there is a way to make everyone comfortable. And even if your little one never goes to the nursery that doesn't mean she won't love Sunday school later on. If not, there may be a more children friendly church out there for you.

[Red Pajama]

We keep our kids with us, and it is hit or miss in regards to what we get out of mass. The age from a little over a year to almost three has been the worst for us. After three, they seem to be better about volume control, singing at times when others sing, and not leaving the pew.

We bring a small snack (cheerios) and feed them one at a time. She also usually has her baby doll with her.

Toys seem to distract my older boys, so that seems to make things worse. We have used the "water pen" activity books, that have special paper and a water pen that only marks on it's special paper. I've seen older children at church with coloring pages or religious story books. My boys (at almost 5) are expected to sit, stand, sing when others do these things, and be quiet during prayers. It's a work in progress.

Many people keep children with them in services, so I see no reason why you shouldn't. I know the feeling of "not getting much out of it", but this won't be forever.

[kcstar]

We kept DS with us at church the entire first year, dirty looks from babbling and all. OTOH, he was in childcare at the gym pretty regularly, so he was used to seeing other people.

I don't remember when we first took him down to the nursery at church. We usually brought him up front for story time, so chances are good that instead of walking back to where we sat, he just followed the other kids downstairs one day (and we went with him / helped him navigate).

For your situation, I would suggest making a stop at the nursery part of your pre-church routine. For the first few visits, just say hi, let your DD see the care workers. If/when she'll go to them, let them hold her for a minute or two. Each visit take a little longer. Ask her if she wants to go over there and play. Let her slowly get comfortable with being farther and farther from you. When she gets to the point where she'll go to the middle of the room, ask her if it's okay if you leave. It probably won't be the first time, or second, but keep showing her the room and the people until she is okay with playing there.

Any chance that there's some time away from service, when the children have left, that just you and DD (or you, DD, and a church employee) could play there? In which case you can start with her sitting on your lap, and let her start exploring / moving away.

Basically, take it in parts:
1) get her used to the other people who will care for her.
2) get her used to the location, toys, knowing that the space is safe
3) get her used to kids.
All at once can be much, but taken in pieces and proceeding slowly can get her there, I think.

[kristencarder]

you've already gotten some great advice...just another suggestion: maybe get there early when there aren't so many kids there already so it's not as overwhelming for your little one. talk to the workers about your concerns...do they have a pager system? you can ask them to page you if your kiddo's crying is out of control (more than the normal whining when mama leaves). i would really recommend at least bringing your child to nursery every week, even if she doesn't stay there for the whole service. the routine of going to church and going to nursery may eventually just make sense to her "ok, this is what we do when we're at church..."

my husband and i are both involved in ministry at our church. this made it VERY hard to parent the way we wanted to (attached) and still serve the church the way we wanted to. i was very fortunate to have a super-friendly nursery staff who showed lots of love to our son and always paged me if his crying was severe. i would also go back and nurse him between services.

now my 19-month-old ds goes right into nursery and seems to enjoy his time there...it was a long process, but it's well worth the effort!

[rach03]

Sorry, I've been gone all day and just got back!

I had not thought about going in there at non-church service times to play with her. I will ask if that is possible. I'm not sure if it is the same workers each week, but I am happy that the worker/child ratio is very very small. The kids are broken into very small groups and there are a lot of workers in each room. The lady that was holding DD when I came to get her said she had held her almost the entire time which made me feel slightly better.

And they do have a paging system...she said if my daughter had been as upset as she was right as I was picking her up she would have called me...she said DD was doing okay (not good, but okay) until the other moms started coming to get their babies and that's when she really freaked out. My plan for next time was to at least sit as close to the nursery as possible so I was one of the first moms there to pick her up.

The few times I took her into the service with me the people around us were very kind about her being there. She made a few noises and I was trying to shush her, and an older lady in front of me said something to the fact that babies can do no wrong and to not worry myself over her. I'm just overly cautious at making other people mad if she babbles or makes too much noise.

Thank you all for the advice and suggestions, this really helps me with some ideas as to how I might be able to make it easier on all of us! I appreciate it greatly!

[Summersquash]

You've gotten some great advice here.

Our church doesn't have a nursery. 14 mo DD sits in the pew with us. One thing that really helped us is to bring a bag with some quiet toys and board books. These are toys/books that DD finds super interesting and she only sees them when we are at church. Right now there is a button/counting book in there that she is fascinated by. We rotate them periodically too. She also randomly gets interested in things like the song books that have ribbons, stepping off and on the kneelers, etc.

I'm sure the challenges will get bigger as time goes on, but having the dedicated toys really has helped us so far.

[blizzard_babe]

We've taken DS to church twice, and both times it was a miserable failure. We're not religious, though, so it's not an issue unless we have someone's church event (baptism, wedding, etc) to attend. I'm not sure how churchgoers do it, honestly. Squawking babies are one thing... A loud-mouthed 20 month-old yelling, "DOWN! DONE! OUT! ALL DONE! WANT TO WALKING! DOWN!" is totally another. DS has nooooooo concept of volume control.

If we were religious, I think that at this point, DH and I would attend separate services. In a few years, it could be a family thing.

FWIW, DS goes to daycare two mornings a week, and I'm still not comfortable leaving him in random church nurseries. I'm weird about non-paid childcare... At least when I'm paying money I feel like I have the ability to say, "Do what I say, or I'll take my money elsewhere." In volunteer situations, I feel less powerful.

[Summersquash]

Originally Posted by blizzard_babe

We've taken DS to church twice, and both times it was a miserable failure. We're not religious, though, so it's not an issue unless we have someone's church event (baptism, wedding, etc) to attend. I'm not sure how churchgoers do it, honestly. Squawking babies are one thing... A loud-mouthed 20 month-old yelling, "DOWN! DONE! OUT! ALL DONE! WANT TO WALKING! DOWN!" is totally another. DS has nooooooo concept of volume control.

If we were religious, I think that at this point, DH and I would attend separate services. In a few years, it could be a family thing.

FWIW, DS goes to daycare two mornings a week, and I'm still not comfortable leaving him in random church nurseries. I'm weird about non-paid childcare... At least when I'm paying money I feel like I have the ability to say, "Do what I say, or I'll take my money elsewhere." In volunteer situations, I feel less powerful.

I wonder if maybe it is one of those things where it's a new and different situation, so your DS isn't sure what the expectations are? Maybe he didn't realize that the loud talking wasn't welcomed? I know sometimes I get frustrated by DD's behavior (i.e. in a doctor's office waiting room) and then realize that hey, this is all new to her, maybe she has no idea that I want her to be quiet here.

At least at the church I attend, everyone seems very welcoming of families with children and is OK with the noise and walking around in the back and stuff that comes along with it. Plus it helps to go to a service attended by lots of families and children so that way no one knows which one is making all the noise.

[Rowansmama]

Could you wear your daughter during the service in a sling in a hip carry perhaps? I do this often wtih my daughter when she's fidgety and wants to run around. Some snuggle time in the sling will often calm her down and keep her quiet.

[blizzard_babe]

Originally Posted by Summersquash

I wonder if maybe it is one of those things where it's a new and different situation, so your DS isn't sure what the expectations are? Maybe he didn't realize that the loud talking wasn't welcomed? I know sometimes I get frustrated by DD's behavior (i.e. in a doctor's office waiting room) and then realize that hey, this is all new to her, maybe she has no idea that I want her to be quiet here.

At least at the church I attend, everyone seems very welcoming of families with children and is OK with the noise and walking around in the back and stuff that comes along with it. Plus it helps to go to a service attended by lots of families and children so that way no one knows which one is making all the noise.

It could be the case, but he's also a pretty... um... impossible-to-not-hear kind of kid.

[rach03]

Yes, I definitely was not comfortable with random church nurseries. That's why I've avoided even trying to go to church the last couple years! I felt like after keeping her with me the first few times and checking out the nursery and talking to them about what they do and how everything worked that it was a good environment. Not that it makes it easier on DD, but at least I felt like where I was leaving her was okay, you know? I always knew when we were trying churches for the first time I would not leave her in the nursery.

The time she slept I was wearing her in my Beco. That helps me out a little two because she's so small people think she's younger than she really is. But I don't think she would sleep in the morning, and if she's not asleep in the Beco she wants me to be moving. Maybe wearing her in the Beco and walking around outside where the TVs are would be a little easier than chasing her, though!

[mama2mygirl]

Originally Posted by rach03

Will probably be long, I apologize up front!!!

We've started going to church with some friends of ours....we recently moved and have found a church near our home that we like. One of the things that has kept me from going over the past couple years has been the fact that I knew my kids would not take well to being left in the nursery. DS is 4 now and bounds off without a second thought...no problems there. My 17 month old DD I knew would not be happy in the nursery because she's never been apart from me.

The first several times I kept her with me. The first time she slept, the second time she was awake but quiet. The next two times I couldn't stay in the service because she quickly got antsy and started making too much noise. So those times I ended up following her as she walked around inside the church (but outside of the room the service is in) and I caught bits and pieces of the service on the tv that they stream it on live. I didn't really get much out of it that way. I didn't get much out of it when I had her with me in there, either...I was too worried about occupying her.

So I'm not quite sure what went through my mind, but I thought I'd try leaving her last weekend. Yeah, it was as bad as I expected. By the time I picked her up she was red and puffy from crying, and I felt like the crappiest mama ever. I cried probably as much as she had in those 30 minutes.

I feel like that's pretty much the same thing as letting her cry it out at night, which of course I have never ever done! She doesn't know those people, doesn't want to be there...I don't blame her for being upset. I feel awful. Why in the world did I think she wouldn't freak out?

I just don't know what to do. I can't keep her with me in the service because she makes too much noise. If I walk around with her and catch bits and pieces on the TV I'm not really getting anything out of it, so I feel like I might as well not go. I can't leave her with a family member at home because although we do live in the same city, my mom's house is like 40 minutes from mine so it's not like I could do a quick drop off. The church does have a very small "nursing" room which I've never seen anyone in (I have seen mamas nursing their babies in the main room, so yay for that!)...but they said it's not sound proof so it's not really a "cry" room for older babies.

I just sure as heck know I can't do that to her again.

I'm just curious what other attached mamas do about their little ones and church. I know this is the prime age for separation anxiety on top of her being used to having me around 24/7, so that makes it even worse. Can anyone share some advice or experience with me? Thanks.

The AP parents in our church just hang out in the nursery with their babies. I left my baby for the first time last week. She was fine. No, actually it was the second time. The first time was two months back and when she cried, they came and got me. I waited and tried again. She was happy this time.

[JollyGG]

I regularly send up a prayer that my mere presence in church counts for something. Every parent I know has said the same thing. My six year old never would go to sunday school and my three year old is hit and miss and usually stays with us. I'd say just take it one week at a time and get as much out of the experience as you can. Concentrate on the communitee you are choosing to be part of, the faith foundation I am sewing for my children and the other advantages I can think of for being part of a church and attending even if I don't usually get as much out of the service as I would like.