Screwing around at bedtime

[oceanbaby]

This is becoming a big deal all of a sudden. Our kids are 8 and 5, and share a bedroom. They have always needed a lot of sleep, especially ds1. If he doesn't get 10-11 hours, he is obviously tired and acts bratty the next day. During the winter they've always gone to sleep around 7/7:30, even though in summer it's more like 9pm, which is difficult.

7:30 didn't seem to be working lately, so we bumped it up to 8pm. Same routine as always. No resistance to bedtime, just a lot of screwing around - not listening when we tell them to brush their teeth, throwing their pajamas around instead of putting them on, etc. But the real problem comes after the lights are out. It is a constant stream of disruptions - questions, arguments, etc. Ds1 will whisper to ds2 to come out and ask us some lame question. Tonight it was "What is the name again of the stuff that defeats Superman?" That kind of crap.

Or ds2 complaining that ds1 is being mean. Or ds1 complaining that ds2 is singing. Or all of a sudden them needing to ask us about giraffes.

It's making us nuts. They're not getting to sleep until 9 or later, which is way too late for them. Plus, I am tired and sometimes end up yelling. And we know nothing makes a kid drift off to sleep like being screamed at.

I finally blew my stack tonight and told them since they take so long to go to sleep, we are going to move bedtime back to 7:30. I always vowed never to use bedtime or sleep as a punishment, but I just totally lost my cool. Dh thinks that instead of an hour of screwing around we'll just have an hour and a half. But, he thinks that ds1 needs some sort of consequence/punishment to messing with ds2 while they're trying to go to sleep.

Okay, and a confession: I was at my wit's end tonight, and told ds1 that if he said one more thing to ds2, he was "in big trouble." So of course he did, and I found myself in that ridiculous position of having to come up with some sort of punishment - which we never do - and told him he couldn't go snowboarding on our upcoming trip to Tahoe. I am considering walking it back tomorrow, but something has to be done. Ds1 can't just keep totally ignoring us and messing with ds2 at bedtime. I just don't know how to solve it.

[TEAK's Mom]

Ugh. I know how frustrating that can be. You know that they're tired. You know that they need sleep. You need some time. And they turn into barbarians.

I think that there are two answers to this one. The first is to separate them at bed time and put them in different rooms even if you have to move someone later in the night. This only works if you have space, of course (we don't).

The second solution is the one I employ when my dds (5 and almost 8) are in this kind of mode. I come in and sit with them. My girls like to have something to listen to when they are falling asleep, so I try to find occasional new things that are interesting enough to settle them down. However, that only works if things are quiet enough that they can hear in the first place. So, I plant myself in there. I give them a couple of minutes to share any last things that can't wait until morning and then I just focus on being a calming presence. This way dd2 can't push all of dd1's buttons. Dd1 can't start finding fault with dd2's breathing. No one can blame anyone else for starting anything.

By the way, making sure you have a nice glass of wine in your hand at this point can be very useful.

I know it sounds kind of lame, but I think that sometimes, they need some help settling down after a day. I also think that it helps to ward off the feeling that "mama is putting us to bed because she wants time away from us." They feel like it is more of an important part of the day if I am willing to join in. Usually, I only need to do this for a few days and then they fall into a healthier pattern for a while.

Hang in there.

[MamaMamaMama!]

My kids need something fun to look forward to at bedtime or they drag their feet so much I want to scream. Chapter books you can read to them that they would both enjoy would be ideal. Sometimes we sing songs together instead (starting with the more rambunctious ones and moving to the calming). Music in general can be really nice at bedtime if your kids like it--again, really slloooooowww calming music. Sometimes they listen to books on tape; that puts my little one out immediately.

I agree about being there when they are going to bed--the glass of wine is a GREAT addition (a book of your own is nice, too, if you can organize it, so at least you are doing something enjoyable as you wait for them to wind themselves down).

[MeepyCat]

I am so taking notes on this for when my kids are older.

[suziek]

Subbing.

The evening madness was kind of fun until this newest babe arrived. Need some new approaches.

[Scottishduffy]

I used to care fot two little girls that shared a room and used to stall a lot!

#1 When brushing teeth and getting ready I instituted the 15 minute system. I would put 15 minutes on the timer during which they had to brush their teeth, pt on PJ's if they weren't already in them, and pick out a back. By the end of the 15 minutes they had to be sitting on their bed with a book they had picked out (not running down the hall at 90 mph to get to bed, not in the kitchen, but sitting ON the bed). If they were on the bed then they earned an extra 15 minutes to stay up and read a story or play a quiet game. If they were not on the bed then it was straight to sleep, since by being silly they had wasted time and I no longer had enough time to read. I only had to enforce that 2 times and then never again.

#2 I seperated them at bedtime. The one who was easier to get to sleep (the 6 yr old) would go to bed first. The little one would play on the computer or watch a DVD while the older girl went to sleep. After her story I would sit in the room for another few minutes until she was quiet then go to get the little sis.

#3 To give Older Sis time to sleep I would read Little Sis's story to her in the living room and spend her 15 minutes there. After which i would go to the room where older sis was usually asleep and pit Little Sis to bed. Little Sis had such trouble falling asleep, I would stay in the room with her but would not speak to her at all. She always tried asking questions, but I would not respond. I always warned her each night that after her 15 minute story I would not talk anymore so she knew what was going on. She would just try her best to get me to talk. If she hopped out of bed I would put her back, but that was the only interaction. It took her a few weeks to get it, but she did.

[mamaduck]

Can ds#2 go to bed in your bed, and then be moved into his own bed when you need to go to sleep?

Have you tried story tapes/CDs at bedtime?

Is the 8 yo. allowed to read in bed until he is sleepy?

What time do they get up in the AM and how busy are their days? (At least during the school year -- my kids get up so early and spend their days being so busy that they tend to fall asleep before their heads hit their pillows.)

[annekevdbroek]

My kids are younger, but I certainly have bedtime craziness with both of them (age 3 and 6). I have found that I have to start the bedtime routine much earlier than seems realisitic. E.g. allowing an hour to an hour and a half for putting on jammies, last minute snacks and drinks, story, and tooth brushing. It simply cannot be done any quicker than that. So, moving back bedtime may very well work for you.

Secondly, I am single parenting these days and I still sepate the kids at bedtime (easier with 2 parents though). The older stays in his room and watchs a DVD or reads or talks to his grandma on the phone while i read to the younger and put him in bed. Then I tackle the older one for reading and tooth brushing. They do have separate rooms. However, sometiems they share and then there is a lot of giggling and silliness (so they do not share on school nights). If your kids are in the same room I'd consider getting one to fall asleep in your room or on the sofa and carrying them in to be tucked in later.

[columbusmomma]

I like the 15 minute timer idea, I may have to try that with DS, age 7. And I totally used to start the whole bedtime thing earlier, to compensate DS' screwing around. Why have I stopped!!?