Frenulum

[CarrieCo]

Ok, I need help from any of you momma's who've had tongue tied babies...

I stopped breastfeeding Clarke at 3 weeks b/c it was soo painful. He was munching on my nipple, not sucking. So, I had my doula look at him, and she agreed with me that he was tongue tied. Then I took him to a lactation consultant b/c I figured I would get some resistance from the pediatrician ... she agreed he has a minor tongue tie. Then I took him to the ped(who I don't like) to get a referral .. he agreed he was tongue tied. Then I took him to the ENT who said he is NOT tongue tied and that he wouldn't do anything. So I asked why then he can't suck properly and my nipple hurts when I breastfeed him. He said maybe you should keep trying to do it till he gets better at it. I said, I put him on every day, so I know how it is. Stupid man who doesn't care about my nipples. I'm sure if he had a baby on his breast every 2-3 hours for 15-20 he could empathize ... but no, he's just a stupid male doctor who doesn't give a crap about women!

So, my questions are:

What are your experiences with this issue?

What was the procedure like?

Did breastfeeding imediately improve?

Thanks.

[belltree]

There are pediatricians who specialize in tongue ties. I don't know of any where you live, but maybe you could ask in your tribal board?

[ShwarmaQueen]

Well I've become an expert of sorts on this recently, so I'll try to share what I learned.

What are your experiences with this issue?

DS started off having latch issues- wouldn't open his mouth wide, pushing out the breast, shallow latch, clicking, audibly swallowing air, etc. and I thought it was just me. His weight gain/diaper output was excellent (but I had major oversupply issues so he didn't have to suck, just open his mouth) so I thought it was just learning the proper latch. After 5 weeks of agony with gas and painful nipples (and that 'biting' feeling- I told DH I thought DS was teething before I knew he was TT!) I went to an LC who said he was def posterior TT (this type is less common and more likely to be missed but just as restricting) and gave me a name of an ENT and a pediatric dentist who do the procedures. Had it done a few days later. But...

What was the procedure like?

It was quick and didn't seem to bother DS past the initial moment of the actual clip. He hated us holding down his arms worse than the actual procedure. Doc gave me a cotton swab with oragel, I held it under his tongue while he made yucky faces from the taste, I held his body, nurse held his head still, doc lifted tounge and SNIP! Bled for 1 second and DS then stuck it out and started touching everythign with his newly freed tongue. So cute after all that nervousness!

Did breastfeeding imediately improve?

Yes and no. Ok, somewhat. He doesn't click quite as much, but we've recently found out (after he stopped gaining weight and dropped a percentile in 4 weeks) that he has and extremely high palate and severve mouth weakness- lips, jaw, tongue are very weak and he tires out before he finished eating. So we're doing therapy with a speech pathologist and he seems to be improving a bit (more poopy diapers)- we'll see at the next weigh-in!! The other option is to bottle feed EBM but he also has such a sensitive gag reflex and tongue thrust because of the TT (wasn't 'desensitized' by the tongue in utero) so nothing solves everything.

My 2 cents- Go to a pediatric dentist OR call around to the LCs in your area to find an ENT who is more knowlegable about the tongue's crucial role in BFing. I'm not sure I would have found a good one without the suggestion from my LC.

[CarrieCo]

Thank you Shwarma! That is VERY helpful. I was just going to give up b/c I'm tired of fighting doctors. But, everything you describe is what my son does. Won't open his mouth wide, can't pull in the nipple, chomping on my nipple, etc. AND... I didn't know it was related, but the gagging reflex ... how strange! I will take your advice and start asking around for an appropriate doctor.

THANKS AGAIN!

[Sonneva]

I think my little one has tongue tie as well. It wasn't too bad when he wasn't nursing as much, but he is increasing his nursing and it's really getting painful. The consensus of my LLL leader and one of my midwives is that if he is gaining and I can bear nursing, to just wait it out... but it really seems to be getting worse instead of better. I'm really not enjoying nursing him though because of it, and I'm pretty sure if my older one wasn't also nursing I'd have mastitis by now. I don't want to damage our nursing relationship, so I'm going to talk to our family doctor and see if she thinks clipping the frenulum would help.

[CarrieCo]

Originally Posted by Sonneva

I think my little one has tongue tie as well. It wasn't too bad when he wasn't nursing as much, but he is increasing his nursing and it's really getting painful. The consensus of my LLL leader and one of my midwives is that if he is gaining and I can bear nursing, to just wait it out... but it really seems to be getting worse instead of better. I'm really not enjoying nursing him though because of it, and I'm pretty sure if my older one wasn't also nursing I'd have mastitis by now. I don't want to damage our nursing relationship, so I'm going to talk to our family doctor and see if she thinks clipping the frenulum would help.

I know what you mean when you talk about damaging your nursing relationship. I started to resent my baby, and that is why I quit nursing him. When it effects bonding, it's time to change things up. Now I just wish that some doctor would take me seriously so we can fix the problem and get on with things! I quit nursing him at three weeks and he is 11 weeks already!

[Sonneva]

CarrieCo:

ugh, that's hard! I hope you find someone that will help. We haven't really pushed it yet, but I'm going to be pushing for clipping the frenulum at my last midwife appt... or at least getting her to refer us to a ped.

[ShwarmaQueen]

I hope you both get the TT issues resolved soon. It's still hard for us because we waited so long. The rule (from my LC) is that it takes approximately 1/2 the time of the baby's age when he has his frenulectomy to relearn how to use his tongue.

If you don't have to have a referral for insurance reasons, I'd skip over the pedi and go straight to a pediatric ENT or a pediatric dentist.

[mom-to-jj]

Originally Posted by CarrieCo

What are your experiences with this issue?

What was the procedure like?

Did breastfeeding imediately improve?

DDC crashing... My son had a "minor" tongue tie. My LC and his ped said it was mild and suggested I wait to see if it stretched on its own before "putting him through that." I can tell you that it did not feel minor to me for the 8 weeks that I wept while he nursed my nipples flat, bruised, and bleeding. He also seemed constantly hungry, but I could not bear to nurse him more than about every 4 hours. He had good output and did gain weight, but he was skinny--25th pct for weight and 95th for height! I know he needed to be nursed more than I did, but it was a physical impossibility. After 8 weeks I couldn't handle the pain--even with the nipple shields I had to wear to even allow nursing to continue.

The ENT we saw also felt his TT was mild and said it was up to us if we wanted to clip it because he did not feel it would affect my son's future speech or use of his tongue. He didn't seem eager to do the procedure but didn't actually discourage us, either. We chose to have it clipped. They did not use any numbing agent to my knowledge. I held my son's head still, and the ENT made one quick snip. My son's face turned all red and he started crying. I latched him on right away and he calmed down quickly. After that, it didn't seem to bother him much and it healed just fine on its own.

It was two weeks before I could nurse without pain, and then I was finally able to get rid of the shield. I went on to nurse for a year. My only regret is that I waited so long to have the TT clipped. Before the procedure, I worked extensively with an LC on positioning/latching, none of which solved the problem. I waited 8 weeks and his TT did not loosen, and he did not learn how to suck instead of chomp. If I EVER have another baby with a TT, I will have it clipped immediately.

[CarrieCo]

Originally Posted by mom-to-jj

DDC crashing... My son had a "minor" tongue tie. My LC and his ped said it was mild and suggested I wait to see if it stretched on its own before "putting him through that." I can tell you that it did not feel minor to me for the 8 weeks that I wept while he nursed my nipples flat, bruised, and bleeding. He also seemed constantly hungry, but I could not bear to nurse him more than about every 4 hours. He had good output and did gain weight, but he was skinny--25th pct for weight and 95th for height! I know he needed to be nursed more than I did, but it was a physical impossibility. After 8 weeks I couldn't handle the pain--even with the nipple shields I had to wear to even allow nursing to continue.

The ENT we saw also felt his TT was mild and said it was up to us if we wanted to clip it because he did not feel it would affect my son's future speech or use of his tongue. He didn't seem eager to do the procedure but didn't actually discourage us, either. We chose to have it clipped. They did not use any numbing agent to my knowledge. I held my son's head still, and the ENT made one quick snip. My son's face turned all red and he started crying. I latched him on right away and he calmed down quickly. After that, it didn't seem to bother him much and it healed just fine on its own.

It was two weeks before I could nurse without pain, and then I was finally able to get rid of the shield. I went on to nurse for a year. My only regret is that I waited so long to have the TT clipped. Before the procedure, I worked extensively with an LC on positioning/latching, none of which solved the problem. I waited 8 weeks and his TT did not loosen, and he did not learn how to suck instead of chomp. If I EVER have another baby with a TT, I will have it clipped immediately.

Thank you so much! This really encourages me to pursue it!!!

[Lineymom]

I was having a ton of pain with nursing this baby at first. I thought it strange because I had nursed my other 2 for over 2 years each and suddenly I was having pain again like a first time mom.

I noticed her tongue was heart shaped and you could see how attatched the "string" was. When she was about a week old (I think) she was nursing and suddenly unlatched startled and had blood in her mouth. She didn't cry! i thought she made me bleed, but she was holding her mouth funny, like she was feeling around in it. She lifted her tongue and it had detatched on its own. Then she stuck her tongue all the way out. In a couple of days my nipples were heeled, we were really lucky!

My nephew had his clipped, it was no biggie getting the doc to do it and we are in a very bottle-happy area.

good luck

[vegasgrl]

Originally Posted by Lineymom

I noticed her tongue was heart shaped and you could see how attatched the "string" was.

If anyone is still reading this...

Kate had a frenulectomy at 10 days old - the ped did it in the office. It was like "she's TT'd, want me to snip it?" I said yes, and two minutes later it was done. Had about the same experience as the others - she didn't like it but she was fine soon after.

But her tongue is still heart-shaped. Think he didn't clip enough? I've never seen a heart-shaped tongue and here I was thinking it was so cute. It makes sense that it would be from a TT.