Have you put away your "adult" things?

[MamaLeah]

My daughter is about to turn two and I'm starting to wonder how I feel about her seeing certain things - sexual or adult things that I personally have no problem with.

For example: A book of erotic photography. "Sex education" books for adults (lots of pictures of loving couples loving each other). A couple of books of erotic fiction (I know that doesn't matter now, but when she's older?). Music with profanity. (It's not violent, but in some of the stuff we have there is an occasional f-ing this or that or an adult theme). The alternative weekly paper we pick up which has graphic adult phone sex ads in back (this probably worries me the most because of the unrealistic portrayal of women's bodies, but I like the newspaper).

First, after writing this, I have to swear - We are not perverts! We are really boring and conventional people, but we have a lot of books and a lot of music and a lot of magazines, and sex comes up in all media, though I feel in a different and healthier way than mainstream media. I've never felt embarrassed of anything we have and have never hidden any of it from guests or even my parents. It's all on our shelves for the browsing.

I know I don't think anyone has ever been hurt by seeing a naked body or seeing naked bodies in the act of lovemaking. I know I don't think strong words voicing heartfelt convictions will burn anyone's ears off.

So the stuff you have around that you honestly feel is beautiful, informative and/or healthy, but happens to have a sexual theme, do you hide from your children? Do I need to have a hidden stash of sex stuff in our closet? When our child eventually finds it, what kind of message will that send? Do we as a society try to shield children from the wrong things? (Like commercial TV is OK, but a book of naked people is off limits.)

Please share your thoughts!

[Deni]

We are going thru the same thing. We also have a subscription to Heavy Metal - its a graphic novel type magazine. We have similar stuff to what you describe on our shelves also. If dd happens to see it, we discuss what she sees but we don't go out of our way to show it to her or display it. We use the "if it comes up approach".

Seems to work. She asks what it means. We tell as simply as possible. Generally, she moves on.

Also, happens very seldom - who has time for it these days? About the only time it happens is when the new issue of Heavy Metal arrives and is still sitting on the coffee table before we read it and put it away.

Hope this helps. Denise

[christinemm]

Hi, when I was 9 I found a stack of old Playboys of my fathers that were in the house, and it really affected me in a negative way. I didn't understand what I was seeing and the erotic nature of the human body. I instantly was embarrassed and remember even feeling weird sitting with my legs spread or laying on floor with legs not tightly together (while watching TV). The sex talks my mother had with me previous were sketchy in detail and then my father got angry when I announced at the dinner table that mom had told me about "lovemaking". I shared them with two neighbor girls who were aged 10 and 11 (not thinking yet it was a problem to do so) and a blowup ensued. In the end my parents didn't punish me but I learned that some people feel that naked bodies in magazines are something to be ashamed of. It was not a world that I was ready to be exposed to yet. (They were in a corner in the basement and upside down, so they weren't even right in plain sight on a bookshelf or anything.) I remember being so curious about what the magazines were all about that I looked at every one (about 15 or so) and even was reading the articles, cartoons, etc. in an attempt to figure out why someone would want to look at that stuff.

I feel that this impacted my whole view of sexuality, especially in my younger years. As an adult I have no problem with the items you mention but I strongly urge you to consider that if a child who is not yet ready to think of the body in a sexual way is exposed to these things it is possible that it may negatively impact your child's view of sexuality. I remember worrying that men were looking at my own body in a sexual way and trying to protect myself from being looked at or thought about in a sexual manner which I thought was "gross".

Then again, maybe the way you introduce sexuality or the way you approach it would be better than my own situation, with the way my parents handled it, because I didn't feel I could honestly ask them about the magazines. I actually did try to ask the questions in a round-about manner but I didn't get an answer. I remember being puzzled as to why men would want to look at pictures of naked women. Looking back,I never thought that women would want to look at naked bodies.

I think that the visual images should be put away and out of sight until the child stumbles on them themselves, probably during the younger side of the teen years, or they can look at them for themselves when they are older when they are interested and therefore ready to view them.

In our home some erotic writing books and books with images are put away and "in hiding" from the children.

I'm curious to see what others say and to hear what you have decided.
Christine

[Piglet68]

I'm going to try to hide negative sexual stuff from my kids but I want to be really open about sex, sexuality, and the natural-ness of the human body. Sex in a loving relationship is healthy and natural and I don't think it should be treated as anything dirty or strange, etc. Of course, I didn't always just have sex in loving relationships, lol, but that can come into the discussion when she is much older, lol.

I remember finding a playboy mag with some friends at some kid's house that was having a party. I couldn't have been more than 9. Every one of us was so fascinated that we couldn't get enough of this mag. I even remember tearing out bits of the centerfold and taking them home with me. I didn't know why they appealed to me, but I already knew that it was something private. Sex wasn't really talked about that much in our house (and Catholic school certainly didn't help!!) and I think that is why kids feel funny when they come across stuff like this. Their natural curiousity gets the better of them but they don't understand why they are feeling what they are, or at the very least they understand that there is something wrong with feeling that way, which they get from the adults attitudes.

I don't want my kids to ever feel that it is wrong to be curious about sex, or to have feelings of sexuality.

[BelovedBird]

Originally posted by Piglet68
I'm going to try to hide negative sexual stuff from my kids but I want to be really open about sex, sexuality, and the natural-ness of the human body. Sex in a loving relationship is healthy and natural and I don't think it should be treated as anything dirty or strange, etc. Of course, I didn't always just have sex in loving relationships, lol, but that can come into the discussion when she is much older, lol.

I remember finding a playboy mag with some friends at some kid's house that was having a party. I couldn't have been more than 9. Every one of us was so fascinated that we couldn't get enough of this mag. I even remember tearing out bits of the centerfold and taking them home with me. I didn't know why they appealed to me, but I already knew that it was something private. Sex wasn't really talked about that much in our house (and Catholic school certainly didn't help!!) and I think that is why kids feel funny when they come across stuff like this. Their natural curiousity gets the better of them but they don't understand why they are feeling what they are, or at the very least they understand that there is something wrong with feeling that way, which they get from the adults attitudes.

I don't want my kids to ever feel that it is wrong to be curious about sex, or to have feelings of sexuality.

I am honestly just curious-
Do you feel that keeping sex and natural, naked bodies private is wrong?
Just because someone believes in keeping these private does not mean they see them "dirty or strange, etc.".
We actually believe just the opposite and that is our reason for it being private.

-BelovedBird

[saige]

I dont feel it's apropriate to have porn around kids in any form.Children are too young to be exposed to sex (visual,not hearing about it,I mean),in my HO.I wouldnt let my children see porn in any shape or form.As for swearing on cd's and stuff,I try and pick as much positive stuff as i can,but not shelter them completly from it,as I know they'll hear it out there.

[pina la nina]

great discussion!

I think there are a lot of different issues we are talking about. Thanks to christine who was brave enough to share with us her experience (coming out as a newbie - welcome!)

Key to all of this is that all kids are different, their abilities to handle different kinds of information needs to be the most important thing. If your kid turns out to be disturbed by something sexual they see, I think it would be important to make sure that what you bring in wouldn't make it worse for them in the future, KWIM?

I think too that it is more disturbing for kids to have reason to believe that someone in their family is looking at or enjoying images that may be disturbing to them. (I found my grandpa's Playboys and was just crushed and so disappointed in him.) I know what newspaper pictures you mean - like at the back of the Village Voice. I think that having them there and like Deni said just not making a big deal of it, and if you want making it clear you don't call those numbers yourselves, should be OK for most kids.

As for books - I grew up with Our Bodies Ourselves, with photos of nudity and people being intimate and I loved it! But that was a really low key, very realistic book and very supportive of women. Thats about the level of sexuality I would want to model for my dd. If you really believe that your books show women and sex in a beautiful uplifting way maybe it would be a good thing to have around, but if not, I think its inappropriate.

[saige]

OT

I love that book too Pina!!

[Piglet68]

Beloved bird - I realised after I wrote this that I wasn't too clear on the age thing. Being pregnant my thought train doesn't extend much beyond the first few months of baby's life, lol! While I think there is nothing wrong with having sex in front of a baby a few months old (who is hopefully napping!) I don't think I'd be comfortable with doing it in front of a verbal child even though philosophically I don't think it is "wrong", but I"m not equipped for that, lol.

As for your question, hmm. Well, it is one thing to be open about nakedness in the house but explain to your kids that in our society you don't go around showing certain parts of your body in public (just like you don't pee in front of people!) but I wonder if mother and father are always hiding their nudtiy, how can a child not pick up that there is something wrong with it? And if mother and father don't talk about sex at all, or go to lengths to hide it, it is sort of sending mixed messages isn't it? Because let's face it, you can't hide things from kids perpetually. They may hear you or sneak an accidental peak when you don't know it. So I just think that deliberately trying to hide it is not good. It's like telling your kids not to smoke but then popping out at night for one when you think they are asleep. They'll find out! So I do think, for me at least, that trying to keep sex and nudity "private" within the family setting would lead to feelings in the child of "dirty" or "don't ask", or "not for discussion", etc. but that's b/c that is how it was handled for me as a child (even though they gave me the birds and bees talk and we had "how babies are made" books) and I think I have some silly hangups b/c of it. Besides, my openness about sex is part of my personality and I'm sure that is an important part of how we parent sexuality, too.

Well, enough blabbing - hope I explained this well!

[BelovedBird]

Piglet68-

Interesting tidbit:
Jewish law alows sex in front of a baby until he is old enough to describe what he saw.

you said:
"but I wonder if mother and father are always hiding their nudtiy, how can a child not pick up that there is something wrong with it?

These are my beliefs
We believe that there is something wrong with unnessasary nudity but not with the human body.The human body is beautiful, created by G-D. It is also something private.

"And if mother and father don't talk about sex at all, or go to lengths to hide it, it is sort of sending mixed messages isn't it? "

I don't think it is sending mixed messages at all. Sex is very holy and private, it is not something that needs constant discussion.

Do you understand what I am saying?

-BelovedBird

[sleepies]

i burned some nude photos.

but i didn't have anything else that would be upsetting.

we do need to put the internet guard up though.

[Piglet68]

Beloved Bird - that was really intereting about Jewish law!

I see where you are coming from. I think how we parent with respect to sexuality has to be consistent with our own beliefs. Kids pick up on that too - they know when we aren't being true to ourselves! So I think I understand your points. I think our different view may stem from a religious/moral perspective and that is too personal to claim "right" and "wrong" for! :-)

I was gonna ramble on some more but I don't want to monopolise this thread any longer! lol

[dfoy]

We really don't have "adult" stuff lying around. Any real "adult" stuff is under lock & key (not that we have lots of it, but we do have a few fun items).

And we don't have a problem with nudity in our house, although since my dh isn't dd#1's dad, he doesn't hang out in his birthday suit around her, nor she him.

But I do have lots of art books with nudes that I will not put away because of dd#2, nor did I when dd#1 (now 17) was little. I grew up with an artist/musician as a mother and we had art books with nudes all over the house. Neither art or music was censored in our house (although I imagine today, my mom would censor the rap that demeans women, but I doubt I would have listened to it anyway).

A funny story regarding "adult" pictures & my 17 yo dd....

When dd#1 was little she loved looking at these art books. 2 of them are Art History textbooks. The rest are books of certain kinds of art or art by certain artists. She never thought the pictures of nude statues or paintings were "dirty" until one day when she had a friend over after school. I really pi##$d this girl's mother off, really not meaning to!

My dd's friend kept insisting that the pictures in the art books were dirty. She said that bad people looked at them, and that she was going to tell dd's mom (me) that she was looking at dirty pictures. This girl ran downstairs where I was doing laundry, showed me the book and said that my dd was looking at these dirty pictures. I said, "oh, honey. Those aren't dirty pictures. That is art." I told her about the artist and the medium he used for the art she was looking at & why he was known as a great artist. I talked to her about color and form and how the nude body was seen by many artists, as well as most normal folks, to be beautiful. Well, all hell broke loose when this little girl went home and told her mother! I tried to explain the circumstances but this mom was hot! She made a huge deal out of it and wouldn't let her daughter spend the night with my dd anymore. Too bad, cause up until then, my dd just thought it was art, too
This mom even told other moms of my dd's friends about it. Luckily, they weren't so warped and thought the whole thing was hilarious!

People like that little girl's mother really get to me! Like John Ashcroft, Attorney General, covering the naked breasts of the statue of Lady Liberty before having his picture taken in front of it. Sheesh! It's art, for goodness sake!

[MamaLeah]

Thanks all for your responses. It is obviously such an intensely personal issue. It's amazing what a strong impact your first exposure to sexuality can have on you for the rest of your life. My first exposure was The Joy of Sex, at a pretty young age, and I was intrigued, but in a very positve way (except the part about big toes, yuck! )) I always knew (don't know how) that my parents had a physical relationship separate from me. They kissed and hugged and cuddled a lot, and I know I accidentally saw and heard them having sex once or twice. For me, this was good, but I think, as pina la nina said, all kids are different.

Our more personal stuff will probably be put away, but our public stuff is staying on the shelves for now. Of course, we will always be reassessing. Thanks for all your input.

[AmyG]

You should, unfortunately, consider if you will be working outside the home or having other people taking care of your child for whatever reason. As you probably know, all child care professionals have to report anything that might be because of child abuse. One of the signs is a too young child knowing about sex. I guess that's actually a good thing, since children may unfortunately find out about it because they're being abused, but an over-zealous child care worker may make a bigger deal out of something healthy than they need to.

Even non-verbal children can "communicate." When I was working with one year olds in a daycare, we saw one little girl straddling a doll and shaking her shoulders. It was hilarious because she was moving her shoulders, rather than her hips. None of us were concerned because we knew she had great parents, but I know people who would have reported it.

[MamaSoleil]

When I was about ten, my best friend found some of the brother's magazine, I think it must of been playboy. I definitely brought out some feelings in us, curiosity was our strongest feeling at that age, I remember.
My mother taught sex education to teenagers, so she was willing to answer any of our questions. My friend and I, who are still so very close to this day, have, in my humble opinion, turned out to be two strong, beautiful women. She has travelled, and continues to do so, all over the world, and I am participating in my daughters growth, her developping into an ever stronger woman than I.
I don't think we should go out of our way to hide things from our children that are natural. I also don't think we should go out of our way to show them. Whenever a child asks a questions, I think an honest answer along with a level on which the child is able to understand.
this as I said, is only one opinion

[Sahara]

This just makes me feel like my sex life is boring, we don't have one thing I need to think about hiding or not hiding

[Maya]

LOL, that's exactly what I was thinking Sahara!!!

[levar]

We have all of our sex things are in the top most closet shelf. They always have been. Even my parents kept theirs there.

I have been thinking alot about sex-talk though. My husband talks "dirty" sex ALL the time. In the car, over dinner, when ever the mood strikes him. Before we had kids I didnt like it much, but my solution was always to just ignore him. Now I am realizing just how often he does this. So I am very very worried that my son is 1) seeing/hearing my husband "constantly" talking about very adult sex subjects and 2) seeing/hearing me react negatively to the talk etc. When I say something my husband just says "oh, he doesnt understand" but I think "well, he WILL some day and now you're in the habit" not to mention he can see and understand the emotion if not the words, etc.

Thoughts? What do you do about "sex talk" between parents infront of kids?

[levar]

Originally posted by dfoy
People like that little girl's mother really get to me! Like John Ashcroft, Attorney General, covering the naked breasts of the statue of Lady Liberty before having his picture taken in front of it. Sheesh! It's art, for goodness sake!

Is that TRUE?! I just cant believe it. How dumb... I'm with ya, Sheesh.