The Great Schooling Debate - Home, Waldorf, Montessori, Traditional

[Flower of Bliss]

DD is 3.5. She would start public K in Fall 2011. I've noncommitally planned to homeschool. Lately she's been asking to go to school, and I've been going a bit crazy with her, and I can see her doing at least part time school being a positive thing for our relationship and household stress level. I live in an upper middle class suburb where the vast majority of the kids 2+ are in MDO or preschools. The fact that she's been home with me full time so far is unusual, though I've worked to keep our social circle to one that is a bit out of the norm here. Enrollment for the fall starts in the early spring, so, I'm starting to research preschools.

As a late August birthday with a Sept 1 cut off, she'd likely be the youngest in her class, and many/most of the summer birthdays are held back by parental choice, but I have NO interest in holding her back a year at the moment. She's too bright and independent. Heck, I was married at a few months shy of 19. I can't imagine her still being in high school then. If we're going to start her in public K, then I think it would honestly be to her advantage to have some experience with a classroom setting from preschool. She's done Kindermusik and Little Gym, but nothing for longer than an hour, and I'm always right outside of the room.

DH's commute is about 1-1.5 hours each way, so he is gone roughly 7am-7pm. Currently we do a family dinner around 8pm (which DH often cooks) and then DH puts DD to bed around 9pm (a recent move up from about 10-11pm when we cut out her nap). She sleeps until about 9am. Sending her to school at 8-9am would require putting her to bed earlier, which would cut seriously into our family time - perhaps cutting it out all together. Maybe she'll wake earlier with the same bedtime by fall???

We're not willing to do the long term expense of private K-12. We have 2 kids and plan to have another 1-2. I might consider private K. There are no public preKs here. I'm 100% set on doing a secular school, which seriously limits my options. So, if we're not doing home schooling, public school will be our end goal.

So, here are my basic options:

1) FREE: Keep her home for another year. If we want to start public K, do so, but skip preK.

2) $240 a month for 2 days a week, 360/3 days: Waldorf "Kindergarten" This school is about 30mins away in the next town, and a very new and struggling school. There is no garantee that it will even be there next year, and the tuition will likely increase some. This would give her experience with being away from me all day and having a "teacher" in a "classroom". I adore the campus and love all of the beautiful handmade items. It is a place I think I could be very happy sending her. However, I'm quite apprehensive about the transition to public school from there. They would not be teaching her the basic academics of letters, phonics, numbers, etc. I would likely choose to do some of that on my own with her. I could also do this for a year (or even 2) to get us some space from each other and then choose to keep her home for K and beyond.

3) $360 and up to nearly $1000/3 full days: Traditional preK. There are a couple of options. I haven't visited them. One comes highly recommended and is also the most affordable.

4) $600+/2 full days or 3 half days: Local Montessori school. I haven't visited the school yet. It seems like it might be sort of halfway between Waldorf and traditional.... It would be quite a stretch budget-wise to do this.

All opinions welcome. I'm very, very undecided. Obviously we'll visit the schools before making any decisions. I'm just looking for input from like minded parents.

[RiverSky]

Taking even that $240 per month, you can do so much more yourself than a preK could. You could get memberships to every nearby museum within two hours of you. You could buy books or drive to the library. You could buy fantastic toys like Montessori arches and wooden kitchens and oodles of board games. You could pay for gas to leave your suburb. I was surprised that you mentioned your suburb, except when we invite friends over, only because we rarely stay within ours and most of our friends, that we see numerous times a week, live 3-12 miles away. Buy a moms club membership and as many homeschool group memberships as are available in your area. Go to all of the field trips, clubs and special events. Voila, better than preK!

Unless you are abusive, extremely introverted as to never want to be around other people, never read books to your child or need to work, I don't see the point of preK at all. I swear, you do NOT need PreK at ALL even if your child goes to public or private Kindergarten next.

[staceychev]

I totally agree with RiverSky from an academic standpoint, but from the way you describe your community (ie, your daughter's future schoolmates) makes me disagree from a socialization standpoint. Most kids around here are in Preschool of some sort, whether it's a part time program or a full day that acts in lieu of daycare. Because of this, the kindergarten teachers have expectations of kids going in being able to sit for circle time, stand in line, raise their hands... all those sorts of school-ish things. For kids whose parents aren't giving them educational enrichment, PreK can do things like letter preparation, counting, shapes, etc. But yes, you can do this at home. What you can't do is teach your daughter to get along in a classroom of kids.

If I was in your position and was planning on sending my child to a "regular" public school at some point down the road, I'd choose the traditional. The Montessori sounds great, but that's really expensive. And I agree that the Waldorf doesn't sound like it's going to transition well to public.

[Flower of Bliss]

Thanks for the input so far. As if my novel length OP wasn't enough, here's a bit more info.

Our "suburb" thinks of itself as a city. It has a large mall, 2 post offices, etc. I practically NEVER leave it.

We're active, and both DD1 and myself are very very social. DD1 does Kindermusik, Little Gym, and library story club weekly. When all of the kids in our play group where suddenly in preschool this fall, at just a few weeks postpartum, I started a new play group with mostly home schooled 2-5 year olds. She'll be doing a 6 week art class soon. We go to parks and spend hours there weather permitting. Our home is full of Waldorf/Montessori toys - instruments, blocks, books, well stocked Waldorf kitchen, Waldorf dollhouse, wooden barn, cloth dolls and stuffed animals, dress up stuff and play silks, craft supplies, and outside a nice swing set, sandbox, and dome climber. I swear our house could be a small Waldorf-like school. I don't think academically speaking she's missing ANYTHING with me.

There is a local home school group I like. I get the emails and such. Attending their park days, DD is always the age of the tag along younger siblings, and I just haven't felt like a part of the group - yet? When I started the playgroup I started there, and with very little response ended up just going with other people I knew through LLL, API, etc.

DD wants to go to school. I've told her I wouldn't stay with her, she wouldn't get to ride a bus, and that she wouldn't be able to do lots of her current activities. She still insists she wants to go. She finds books at the library about going to school. She pretends to go to school every day.

I also feel like we butt heads, and fear it might get worse. We're so similar. I could use time with just the baby. I'm having a rough time with DD1 lately. DD1 could use some time away from me with kids her age and activities geared towards her.

With DD2 to take care of, I don't do the best job doing one on one stuff with DD1. Maybe that will get better by fall. Maybe this is all about having a new baby, but we plan to do that again in a couple of years, and likely again a couple of years after that...

[daytripper75]

I just skimmed by (short on time) but wanted to ask if you had considered afternoon preschool/kindergarten for dd. That way at least for another two years you could keep her schedule the same for her father at night.

[zeldamomma]

Wanted to mention another option-- instead of 100% at home, or signing up for full blown preschool, could you do "preschool-a-la-carte" by signing up for music classes, gym classes, art classes, whatever appeals to you and your dd? Since you are (were?) interested in homeschooling, you could try to find a homeschool coop that offers a preschool level class. In my area, these tend to be one day a week for a few hours and much cheaper than any preschool.

It would give the two of you some separation, without the restrictions of a preschool.

If you're lonely, you could also reach out to local homeschoolers. FWIW, this is a challenging time of year to have kids at home-- if you look at the homeschooling board, you'll see some posts about it. Things seem to get easier when the days are longer and the weather is less cold.

I wouldn't spend 2 minutes worrying about kindergarten readiness at this point. I also wouldn't decide against homeschooling based on the challenges of being home with your dd fulltime now. When she is older, it will be different.

ZM

[LynnS6]

The options for preschool seem a little expensive to me, but maybe that's your area.

Around here, you could get 1/2 day of preschool 2-3 days a week for about $200 a month. That would get you a 'traditional' playbased preschool or mother's day out program - where they have playtime, crafts, snack, etc. for about 2 or 2 1/2 hours. Have you looked into something that's not Waldorf or Montessori?

It seems to me there would be a benefit from her trying it for a little bit, and then you can see whether she thrives in a school based environment, or whether the thrill of school wears off soon.

[beanma]

I think preschool can be important for some kids, but it really depends on the kid. My kids both had a lot of separation anxiety. Dd1 had the most extreme case I've ever seen. Dd2's was significant if not out-the-wazoo like dd1's. For us, to go straight into K without pre-k would not have been good. We needed to warm up with a part-time pre-k program.

I know plenty of little kids who just enjoy pre-k and k and wave their moms good-bye and don't look back, so if you have a kid like that it might not hurt to wait for K. If you're sending her to a fairly diverse public K it's unlikely that she would be the only child who didn't attend pre-k.

I wouldn't worry about academics at all. Pre-k is all about socialization. It's about getting the child used to being part of a regular group. For us, outside classes like dance or art, didn't have the cohesiveness of a pre-k class. It really wasn't the same, though it was a good thing to do, too.

I started my kids in part-time pre-k at 4. Many kids around here are in a full-time program at that age and have been going at least since they were 3. That wasn't a good fit for us. They were in no way ready at that age, but they did need a warm-up for full day K. If your K is half-day I might wait and see, but there are hardly any half-day Ks around here.

Trying preschool or K doesn't mean you're committing her to public school for life. If it doesn't work out you can always pull her out and homeschool (though you may have to pay for the whole year depending on your contract).

hth

[Drummer's Wife]

Tough decision. We have homeschooled, done 'traditional' pre-k twice, and payed for Montessori - for the preschool years with four kids. I have actually been happy with all three choices, depending on our situation and child in question. As it is now, my 4.5 yo goes to a fabulous pre-k that we love. When we did Montessori (still are for the older kids), I was very happy with it. When I homeschooled, it worked out very well, too.

I don't think you can go wrong, really. Not at this age. No school, play based school, waldorf, montessori, etc., The only thing is it might depend on your plans for future schooling. For instance, Montessori builds upon previous years, so starting at 3-4 is ideal if you hope to continue for all of elementary school. I'm not familiar enough w/Waldorf to know if the same is true.

Best of luck figuring it out.

[One_Girl]

Is she wanting to go to school or wanting to socialize. If she wants to socialize then I think you should look into play groups in your area. If she wants to start learning then a preschool or some weekly acitivites might be a good place to start. Do you have a YMCA in your area? If you do then you might consider looking into the classes they have for preschool children. In our area they have short classes in many different interest areas and a variety of preschool programs that range from full day to half day. They also have a drop in childcare area where kids can socialize and play while their parents work out. I absolutely loved the drop in child care for my dd when she was around this age because I could relax, exercise, and shower all by myself and my dd could have fun in a relaxed, low pressure environment. I believe the cost is around $75 a month with the drop in child care included. Community centers also sometimes offer fun classes for preschool age children. Your local library may also have some fun story hours.

I think that the type of childcare you choose should be based on her interests. If she is interested in reading and writing already then a Waldorf center may not be the best for her. If she wants mostly play time and socialization then Montessori may not be a good fit. If she is more serious, private, and focused she may thrive in Montessori school. I suggest reading about Montessori school and the beliefs behind the more traditional preschools before you decide on a place to put her.

[meemee]

here is the issue.

its all about - the grass being greener on the other side.

dd wanted to do a lot of things and when she finally got to do it - she hated it. her passion lasted for a little while and then was gone.

also a lot depends on personality. i would put her into what seems more like the school she will be going to in elementary school. for some like my dd a great ps/dc spoilt her. she expected public school to be like her ps and was v. disappointed that it wasnt. she is in 2nd grade and still doesnt think school is all that great. if she flourishes in that environment then great. she would be awesome.

it IS a hard thing to figure out i will say. though ultimately i think it will be your purse that will make the decision for you.

[snoopy5386]

OP, we are in a very similar position here - DD will most likely go to public K in fall 2011. She'll be 4 in April and we're looking for preschool options for next year. Our choices are a little different, but the struggle is the same. We are "out in the sticks" with mostly religous preschools in the area - not an option for us. I literally have 3 non christian preschools within 30 mins of us - none of them stellar or perfect. If Waldorf was an option here I'd most likely do that....Montessori is an option here, but not a realistic one - it is way toooo much $$$ and also only a 5 day a week program - more than what we want for DD at this time....We are doing a Montessori preschool - homeschool co-op (basically, one of the moms in our circle is a former Montessori preschool teacher and has turned her house into a Montessori classroom) this year and could continue with that next year, but I don't think it is in DD's best interests for a variety of reasons - but mostly because I don't think the Montessori learning style is really working for her. I would really look into it before you decide. But I would say either "mainstream" preschool or Waldorf school. We'll be doing mainstream preschool 3 afternoons a week - afternoons just work better for our family, it is harder to find, but it is out there, I would give it a shot.

[Flower of Bliss]

Wow. Thanks so much for all of the feedback. Now, to answer some questions.

Originally Posted by daytripper75

I just skimmed by (short on time) but wanted to ask if you had considered afternoon preschool/kindergarten for dd.

Afternoon preK would be absolutely perfect, but I haven't found any at all. Preschools are all day with a morning only option at some schools. Kindergarten is 8:05-3:05 5 days a week

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

Wanted to mention another option-- instead of 100% at home, or signing up for full blown preschool, could you do "preschool-a-la-carte" by signing up for music classes, gym classes, art classes, whatever appeals to you and your dd? Since you are (were?) interested in homeschooling, you could try to find a homeschool coop that offers a preschool level class.

When I started the preschool playgroup, I first looked for something like this and came up dry. Perhaps something like that exists in town or in another suburb, but then we're talking 45 mins to an hour or so one way... It might still be worth checking.

Originally Posted by zeldamomma

FWIW, this is a challenging time of year to have kids at home-- if you look at the homeschooling board, you'll see some posts about it. Things seem to get easier when the days are longer and the weather is less cold.

I live in south TX, so summer is the challenging time weather-wise for us. We've had highs in the 70s this week. We spent 3 hours at the park just yesterday.

Originally Posted by LynnS6

The options for preschool seem a little expensive to me, but maybe that's your area.

In part it's the area. In part it's that I'm unwilling to do a church based program. My impression is that those are supposed to be cheaper. The $360 for 3 days is the cheapest traditional secular program I've found, though pricing a few, the church based programs don't seem much cheaper than that.

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Is she wanting to go to school or wanting to socialize.

I think she wants to socialize more than she wants to learn academics. She wants to move on to the next level of being grown up, and she wants the independence. We do lots of socialization, but she always wants more. As nice as leaving her in the gym nursery sounds, I have a 5 month old that I'm not ready to leave even with DH.

Just to reiterate, each week we do: Little Gym, Kindermusik, library story club, a preschool play group that I created when I couldn't find one myself, and a park day weather permitting. Soon we'll add an art class too. She also goes to a class at our UU church on Sunday mornings.

Also, I missed it when I pulled quotes, but the public schools here are not really diverse at all. Lots of upper middle class white Christians, very little else. There are 2 HUGE high schools in our suburb, and I don't even know how many K-3rd elementary schools. Ours is in easy walking distance. If I moved 5-6 miles away we'd be districted to another elementary school It's pretty crazy. DD might not be the only kid in her class that hadn't gone to preK, but I doubt there'd be more than 1-2 others. Adding in being the youngest kid in the class feels like asking for trouble.

[newbie_mary]

Just an idea...if you could find someone (or several) in the same boat in your area, you could try some playdate swapping, where you leave your child at the other person's house one morning (or whatever) and then another day, the other child comes to your house. You could agree with the other mother to do some structured activities during that time. Not exactly a classroom full of kids, but it would be a chance for socialization and some time for you to have with the baby. Sounds like your house is sort of a preschool within itself, anyway, with all the great toys you have!!

[ktmeyer]

It sounds like what she really wants is the rite of passage to school. My son wanted this too around that age. What we did was order a full curriculum (we did calvert, but I'd probably do Sonlight if I did it again) and talked about how that was his school. We had a "first day of school", we took a picture of him in his Calvert t-shirt, he got a little Calvert School teddy bear, he organized all his new stuff on his desk, etc. This way he felt a part of the larger "school" culture, but it was MUCH less expensive than paying for preschool!! And, honestly, he wasn't ready for being away all day at that age.

As for preparing for Kindergarten, I don't think it's needed. My DS went to public kindergarten after homeschooling for preschool, and it was fine. He was a year older then, a year more mature, and READY to be away from me that long. The year before, at 4, he wasn't ready. Forcing him to do it then would have traumatized him, he would have cried, etc. When we waited and did it at 5 he was totally ready, no tears, and had no issues at all.

That said, he's still in public school, but I'm hoping this is the last year and we will be homeschooling next year. It's all about the finances at this point.

[Tizzy]

I don't know about the regulations in your specific area, but I know here Kindergarten is optional.
What a friend of mine does, and what I plan to do *if* we decide to send DS1 to Kindergarten, is just not send him every day. They do full days, and although this year it will still only be every 2nd day, next year it will be 5 days a week. Something the provincial government is implementing for some bogus reasons IMO.

DS1 will not even be 4yrs of age when he is eligible for kindergarten. I think that's completely unrealistic to expect that of him, he still naps for 2-3 hours every day! But he REALLY wants to go to school and our preschool options are very limited in our area. I figure with a new baby this spring, he and I may just need some time apart so perhaps by sending him when he wants to go instead of forcing him to go every day, he can still enjoy the experience. And that will also ensure that he will be in the same class as the rest of his friends.
We attend as many classes and social activities that we can find and I see that it helps him with the group aspects - standing in line, raising his hand, not speaking out of turn etc.

[ann_of_loxley]

It is a tough decision...I will take you along my mindset to the decision we came to - that might help you sort out your own thoughts!

Everyone we knew (from when my son was a baby up until the past year) had children of a similar age to my son. Except they were 'older' enough that they were doing all this stuff a year before him because of where their birthdays fell, etc. So I got to start thinking about this stuff when my son was 2 - also because my son just looks much older for his age, people assume his - so the questions of 'when is he going to start preschool?' were popping up sooner as well.

Preschool was not an option for us. My son isn't one to be without me. He takes a long time to warm up to new places and people as well. So whilst preschool might have been a reality to us - it would have taken months of me attending with him for that to have maybe worked out (and most places arn't cool with that).

Also - I really don't like the preschools in the area.

This actually had me thinking about how we are choosing to live and how I choose to parent and how 'school' might fit in with that. It was very clear to me that right away, our normal everybody-goes-to-them schools were just not going to work for us - this included the preschools attached to them.

We started thinking about steiner - or even montessori. The way my son is wired, I think he would suit montessori much better.

But we don't have the money to pay for this kind of stuff. And whilst we will stop at only 2 children - we don't have the money for this kind of stuff with just one! lol

If we did - I do think he would enjoy going to a few hours a week to some such 'preschool' set up in a montessori and/or steiner way.

In the end - we decided to home educate. This was just the easiest (in terms of everyone being happy with the way we like things lol) option for us.

So - from my experience, it is highly worth thinking about what matters to you as a parent and as a family. School could just not work for us because of what matters to us as a family and me as a parent. Of course, if my son ever wanted to go to school - and knew exactly what that really meant, then he could go (its his choice at the end of the day). He certainly could not grasp that at 3 or even now at 4 and tbh, I don't think he will grasp what going to school means fully until he is much older - probably around the age of 7 or 8.

Once we came to this decision - we started going to the local home education groups. I didn't feel as connected to them then as I do now. There are quite a handful of children there my sons age - but what I really like is the fact that there are many other children there of many other ages as well. I feel this is a much more natural environment for us all. It really wansn't until this year (so around the age your DD is now) that we started to get more invovled and feel more connected as a community with the local home-edders. It certainly helps.

Home education is not easy. You can meet your childs individual needs - but it takes effort to do that. For us, even when I think 'oh he would enjoy a bit of school'...we can't just have it when and how we like. So we really can't do it. It just means more effort on my part. So - its not always the easy option in that sense! hehe

[eepster]

I have DS in a wonderful Montessori preschool. He is very happy and it fits needs very well.

Finding it was a huge journey for me though. Two years ago, I was in a similar place to where you are now. I was just beginning to look for a school, we couldn't afford the one we really wanted, I had somewhat mixed feelings. Here are somethings I learned along the way.

There maybe more preschools out there than you realized. There are often more kids who want to o to them than there are spaces available, so they rarely bother to advertise very well. They might not be in the yellow pages or such.

Reputations are very complicated. They tend to be spread around based in part on gossip. They are largely based on personal taste. Don't put too much stock in them one way or another.

A good school is worth travelling to, and the travelling can in itself become a great part of your day. DS eats on his way to school, and we talk about what he did on the ride home. We often stop at places along the way home to do things like shopping and grabbing lunch at Whole Foods.

Visiting tells you ten time more than anything else, you need to visit a whole bunch of places.

If you don't ask, you won't get. Some places offer need based scholarships, some places will do barter (can your DH paint to classrooms in exchange for a tuition reduction?) They may unofficially do afternoons, though they don't list them on websites and such.

Just b/c you like Waldorf and a school is a "Waldorf" school doesn't mean you will like that school. Just b/c a school calls itself "Montessori XYZ" doesn't mean it's a Montessori school.

GL

[HoneyTree]

You mentioned not wanting to sacrifice your family time by having to move up bed time to accompany an earlier waking time for school.

To me, this is huge. Also, I don't want to mess with my son's natural body rhythms by having to wake him up before he's ready and to impose a bed time the night before *knowing* I have to wake him so early.

I can hear you that it's especially tough because he thinks he wants to go to school. What if you shadowed at a few together? What if he shadowed at a few without you? You could let him try it out, give him a better idea of what exactly about school he wants. It might clarify things for both of you...

[Holiztic]

We are definitely homeschooling when DS (now 2.75) is 5 or so and had NEVER even considered preschool--what for? Certainly not to prepare him for all day compulsory schooling.

But DS is precocious/gifted and very outgoing/social. When we go to anything with kids, he leaves me immediately and starts playing with and talking with the kids (generally 4-5 year old girls, as he's on their level in most areas and seems to prefer girls). When we leave, its seems so wrong to have these throw-away relationships.

I cannot seem to figure out a way to have DS spend a valuable and meaningful amount of time with a number of kids (esp. 4 year olds). By this I mean at least twice a week and for a few hours at a time--and kids he'll see for a year or two ongoing. Playgroups just don't seem reliable enough for that kind of regularity, and the a la cart kindermusik and gymnastics are just once a week, only 45 minutes with no "free" time to socialize, and end every few months with a new set of kids each session.

So we are looking at preschools, though I call them playschools as its not intended as a pre-school for us.

Waldorf is $700 a month here (3 days) and goes to 5 days next year. Both are way too many hours for us. Its also 45 minutes away (that's with no traffic, in a very trafficy area)

Montessori is 5 days at 3 years old! Yikes!

So we are looking at a "traditional" play-based program that is small and mixed age and non academic (more than Waldorf, but less than most). Its 2 days a week for 4 hours (a lot to me, but we'll see) and he can keep that schedule next year if he stays. I will have no issue pulling him out and keeping him home (with kindermusik and gymnastics) if he doesn't love it.

I tell you all this to say this: think about your goals--what do you want preschool to be for her? Match that to the programs, then go with your gut--can you picture her there? How does it compare to your own ideas of what kids should have at that age?

Finally, a stretch is one thing--but don't commit to something that would blow your budget!

And remember, keeping her home is a very valid option! If DS weren't just dying for some social/play time without me (despite my idea for years that little ones should not be away from mom/dad until 5!) we'd be thrilled to skip preschool. But I don't recommend skipping it totally if you think she'll to full time kindy.

Good luck!