Pregnancy Pact - Page 2

[Linda on the move]

Originally Posted by karne

Linda, can you share which book this is? Thanks.

Sex, Puberty, and All That Stuff: A Guide to Growing Up by Jacqui Bailey

[Smokering]

I don't get the "teen pregnancy is glamorised" thing. I don't watch TV (plenty of movies and shows, just not TV-with-ads-on-an-actual-television-set) or read many magazines, so I may have missed it, but... where is teen pregnancy being glamorised? The only thing I can possibly think of is Juno, which I don't think actually glamorised teen pregnancy, although it certainly skimmed over some of the nastier physical aspects of it; but I do recall people saying it glamorised teen pregnancy, so it comes to mind. Keisha Castle-Hughes, the girl who was in Whale Rider, had a baby at 16 or so with her long-term boyfriend, and the media didn't glamorise her. The articles about her were fairly respectful, and the comments on web articles were largely spiteful and mean-spirited. (FTR she sounds like an awesome mother, wanted a natural birth, breastfeeds, is eco-conscious and generally a pretty cool person from what I've read. And her boyfriend is still with her. It wasn't a doom-and-gloom situation.) Everything I've read about Britney Spears' little sister's pregnancy was likewise harsh and cruel. I didn't see anyone "glamorising" it. If anything, I think the "THIS WILL RUIN YOUR LIFE!" scare-mongering has forced a lot of teen girls who want their babies and would be great mothers into having abortions. Which, pro-life here, so I find that sad on many levels.

I plan on homeschooling, so I haven't given the condoms-at-school thing a lot of thought. But I do think FAM needs to be taught in schools - not specifically for BC purposes, but because girls are growing up without Clue 1 about how their bodies work. And that's just bad education. Whether or not my daughter and I ever put condoms on a banana as part of our homeschooling phase, I am determined she will not fly the coop without knowing exactly what a luteal phase is, the significance of cervical fluid and the life span of sperm. Teaching this in schools wouldn't necessarily mean every girl started charting, but it would hopefully cut down on some of those ghastly myths about when you can and can't get pregnant. I wouldn't mind getting certified as a FAM teacher and teaching it in schools, actually... no idea how you do it, though.

[karne]

I was thinking of this thread yesterday when I got a call from one of my dd's friends mom. She asked if I knew that my dd knew about......sex! (11 y/o dd). It was posed as an almost shameful or explicit topic, and I felt that there was judgment in there. The girls haven't had discussion according to my dd, but the ideas come up. friend's dd reportedly doesn't have a clue about this, nor about much related to preadolescence, according to the mom.

Well, this strikes me as not my dd's problem, nor ours. Yes, we have open, and age appropriate conversations with our child because she is growing up, deserves to have her questions answered respectfully, deserves to have our values given to her and not wing it based on what she is getting from peers, etc., etc.

The thing that absolutely astounds me is how often, among moms I know, this topic is treated as taboo and "too old". I thnk it's very misguided.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by karne

The thing that absolutely astounds me is how often, among moms I know, this topic is treated as taboo and "too old". I thnk it's very misguided.

That always shocks me, that and the "well at 12/13/14 my daughter will be thinking about dolls and school not boys." I really don't get how parents can be so out of touch with a stage in life that they have already been through. Sure, some girls won't be thinking about dating or sex at that age, but most are starting to get really curious and without factual information it can lead to a less then smart choice.

Our house is sex positive (thanks MDC for teaching me what the name is, I just called it "the way my dad raised me" before coming here.) Sex is not taboo, and topics relating to sex are not taboo.

DD is 11 and she may not know everything about sex, but she knows enough to know the repercussions of sex, STDs and the emotional aspects of it all to boot. She also fully understands how to fully protect herself against pregnancy and almost fully protect herself against STDs (we don't feel comfortable with teaching "waiting until marriage = 0% chance of getting an STD ever" that I have heard many people teach because it's not true.)

Do some teens get pregnant on purpose? Sure, some do, it's not limited to girls either. The boy could be very much in on the descision.

Do I think condoms should be available? Hell ya, even those raised in abstinence only households in abstinence only communities can choose to have sex.

Do I believe in the glorification of teen pregnancy? Um, no... I have seen what we say as a society about pregnant teens, including celebrities, and it is in no way glorious.

I do believe that we over stigmatize and over villanize teen pregnancy. Sure it's not the best course for someones life to take, but neither is it the end of the world as so many programmes, adults, and groups would have you believe.

DD was an unplanned teen pregnancy. Her mother wanted nothing to do with her so DH became a full time single dad at 16. Ask him today if he'd change anything, he'll tell you no. It wasn't easy, but there is nothing in this world that would make him give up his daughter, or change the path his life has taken since then.

I can understand it too, at 17 I became the step-dad. I made a fully aware choice to, as a teen, become a parent to a 4 year old girl. Still not easy, but a choice I would make again if I had the chance to rethink it.

The only thing either DH or I would change is the level of involvement DD's mother has in her life. We tried desperately to get her to be apart of our life, of DD's life and she worked desperately to stay out. We only gave up when her actions made it impossible for me to become a legal parent to DD.

[karne]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

That always shocks me, that and the "well at 12/13/14 my daughter will be thinking about dolls and school not boys." I really don't get how parents can be so out of touch with a stage in life that they have already been through. Sure, some girls won't be thinking about dating or sex at that age, but most are starting to get really curious and without factual information it can lead to a less then smart choice.

I agree w/ you. And, I think that it's quite possible, during the "tween" time, that some girls (mine included) are doing both-continuing to engage in some of the play of earlier years, while also taking steps forward into an older way of being. I have heard this so many times now-"dd/ds isn't at all interested or curious about XYZ, because they're still doing imaginary play/into sports/too into school". I think it's unfortunate to use that as a reason not to address some of these issues with your kids.

[MommytoB]

I watched part of this show but couldn't stand the media or the police so I didn't watch it anymore.

I say if you truly want to prevent pregnancy in teens Up the Say No to Drugs and Booze stuff .

Condoms were available at school but many teens in my highschool ended up parents before they graduated .

Even people were aware of diseases but still had unprotected sex because they were more into getting drunk and DUI .

Yes, teens are trying to get pregnant in highschool I actually saw a dear abby statement on this that was stated Prom Babies . Meaning teenagers would end up having sex on Prom nite in hopes to be able to get pregnant for many different reasons didn't want to go to college, thought it would help keep their boyfriends around etc .

I say when kids sign up for a family life class don't end up having them take care of a stuffed animal and pretend it's a baby it really doesn't do anything for education or the seriousness of babyhood . They need something more realistic and something that will make them deal with the aspects of a baby .

Sometimes I do think irl being with a mom of a new baby may seem to deter some teens away from having a baby but others as in depending on the mood of the baby . Like anyone could get baby fever with my son he was such a good baby including a good toddler but through preschool and gradeschool age it's like where has my sweet boy gone .

Now, my brother & SIL would have anyone deter away from having a baby again after they had their little girl even though my brother enjoys being a dad & wants another but my sil his wife don't . Their little girl has been so fussy and so fussier than when my son was a baby plus she was also colic , had reflux issues etc .

I do say the talk should beginning right around puberty time should begin because kids are going to be dealing with Hormones and sensations that they are unsure of you know ? They need to hear of how to know how to deal with 'self control' .

[gnutter]

I was a teen mom-not planned at all. That baby is now a teenager himself.

He has a cousin the same age who is a girl. She recently had a baby. While I was visiting one day she came in with 4 other friends and their babies! When I got pg I was one of three girls in my school who had a baby that year. My school was huge! She wen to a small high school and 30 girls had babies or were pg in that school last year. The girls were actually teasing the one girl who did not have a baby saying if she liked babies so much she should just have one. Its free-you get state aid and a free ride through school and can still live at home isn't it great! OMG! I had to leave-I just couldn't believe it. All they see are these adorable babies-they have no idea how hard it gets when you have a not so adorable 3 yo, or 10 yo or a teenager!

I am thinking all schools should be segregated by gender and teenagers should be supervised at all times-it only takes 5 minutes and a closet to change their lives forever.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by gnutter

I am thinking all schools should be segregated by gender and teenagers should be supervised at all times-it only takes 5 minutes and a closet to change their lives forever.

Um, hate to break it to you... But you would have to segregate the entire country for that to have a lick of a chance at working.

[gnutter]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

Um, hate to break it to you... But you would have to segregate the entire country for that to have a lick of a chance at working.

yeah I know-just being a bit sarcastic/desperate

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by gnutter

yeah I know-just being a bit sarcastic/desperate

Understood.

I've heard people make suggestions like that quite seriously before though. My responce was automatic.

[pixiekisses]

Originally Posted by MusicianDad

That always shocks me, that and the "well at 12/13/14 my daughter will be thinking about dolls and school not boys." I really don't get how parents can be so out of touch with a stage in life that they have already been through. Sure, some girls won't be thinking about dating or sex at that age, but most are starting to get really curious and without factual information it can lead to a less then smart choice.

Our house is sex positive (thanks MDC for teaching me what the name is, I just called it "the way my dad raised me" before coming here.) Sex is not taboo, and topics relating to sex are not taboo.

DD is 11 and she may not know everything about sex, but she knows enough to know the repercussions of sex, STDs and the emotional aspects of it all to boot. She also fully understands how to fully protect herself against pregnancy and almost fully protect herself against STDs (we don't feel comfortable with teaching "waiting until marriage = 0% chance of getting an STD ever" that I have heard many people teach because it's not true.)

Do some teens get pregnant on purpose? Sure, some do, it's not limited to girls either. The boy could be very much in on the descision.

Do I think condoms should be available? Hell ya, even those raised in abstinence only households in abstinence only communities can choose to have sex.

Do I believe in the glorification of teen pregnancy? Um, no... I have seen what we say as a society about pregnant teens, including celebrities, and it is in no way glorious.

I do believe that we over stigmatize and over villanize teen pregnancy. Sure it's not the best course for someones life to take, but neither is it the end of the world as so many programmes, adults, and groups would have you believe.

(..)

Yes, yes, yes.

[KaylaBeanie]

Being 20, I am a long way off from having this talk with my as-of-yet unborn children. However, I am committed to remaining as realistic when I am 40 as I am now. Teenagers have sex. Many of them don't until they're out of high school. A few will wait until marriage. I had sex for the first time at 18, when I was in college, and I was one of the last of my friends to become sexually active. Right now, getting birth control as a minor is HARD. If you go to your doctor, they (almost always) will have to get permission from the parents. If you go to Planned Parenthood, or if your doctor does write a *hush hush* prescription, your insurance will be billed and your parents will see. For a teenager who wants to have sex but comes from a very religious/anti pre-marital sex family, that risk of their parents finding out is too much, so they "pull and pray."

I don't feel that teenage sexuality is an inherently bad thing. If, at 15, 16, 17 a teen is completely knowledgeable and feels ready to have sex, I don't think that's terrible. It's not necessarily ideal, but it's realistic. If my 16 year old daughter came to me and told me she'd thought it out and was going to have sex with her boyfriend, I'd rather quietly cry a little inside and get her some condoms instead of trying to talk her out of it and lose the lines of communication.

Personally, I thought the movie was pretty blah. I absolutely think that nurses at school should be able to issue birth control pills and hand out condoms. If a religious teenager is dedicated to waiting, a free Trojan isn't going to make them change their mind.

[Smokering]

Right now, getting birth control as a minor is HARD. If you go to your doctor, they (almost always) will have to get permission from the parents. If you go to Planned Parenthood, or if your doctor does write a *hush hush* prescription, your insurance will be billed and your parents will see. For a teenager who wants to have sex but comes from a very religious/anti pre-marital sex family, that risk of their parents finding out is too much, so they "pull and pray."

Slightly OT, but those can't be the only options. Are condoms not available in the USA? In NZ anyone can buy them from the supermarket. And they don't have the health risks of BCP, which I'm not thrilled about doctors prescribing to underage teens like candy - they majorly mess with an important bodily system and cause all sorts of issues, including... you know... death. Plus, BCPs don't protect against STDs, so teens who are having sex should be using condoms anyway.

[MusicianDad]

Originally Posted by Smokering

Slightly OT, but those can't be the only options. Are condoms not available in the USA? In NZ anyone can buy them from the supermarket. And they don't have the health risks of BCP, which I'm not thrilled about doctors prescribing to underage teens like candy - they majorly mess with an important bodily system and cause all sorts of issues, including... you know... death. Plus, BCPs don't protect against STDs, so teens who are having sex should be using condoms anyway.

Depending on the area there may or may not be an age limitation (ie no one under 16/17/18 may buy condoms).

[Linda on the move]

I think some kids are fuzzy on where to buy condoms or ashamed to be seen buying them.

I've pointed them out to my kids in stores, and also pointed out that they are very cheap!

It might seem like overkill, but the schools here teach the kids nothing about this, and the other parents I know don't tell their kids anything. If my kids don't hear this from me, they aren't going to hear it from anyone else. Even if they don't need the information for a long, long time, I hope they pass it along to other kids.

[SilverFish]

i think the biggest issue here is that we're working against biological imperatives here! teens are sexually mature at least by the age of 16, and often as young as 12 or 13... and we really expect ALL of them to completely keep it in their pants until their 20's? we wouldn't expect adults with similiar, but less intense hormone surges to stay abstinent for upwards of 4 years at a time, why should kids be able to?

i don't think it's a bad thing that as a society we've generally moved away from expecting teens to be popping out babies, but we're fooling ourselves if we think that there aren't forces stronger than sex-ed, or religion, or parental values at work here.