Vent--Financially Insecure In-Laws who just don't care.

[chirp]

I have no one to talk to about this since I live near all my DH's family.

But my in-laws house just went up for tax sale. Again. This is the second time.

This time they are going to get outta hot water by using their tax return to pay the back taxes. Then their plan is to let the taxes default again until next year's tax return comes back, when they will get outta hot water again.

We offered them a place to stay (alcoholics with drastically different values than us, but hey, they're DH's parents!!). They said no. SFIL lost his job cause he went blind. Their taxes are going to be significantly lower next year. Possibly not enough to cover a years worth of property taxes in NJ. MIL is currently only paying their mortgage with the help of partial unemployment.

We tried to make them see reason and to hold onto as much money as they can, and just let the house go. But they won't.

They still have 2 cars. A boat. Satellite TV. 2 cell phones. A second refrigerator (full of beer) in the garage.

They are seriously pissing me off. So they are going to wait until they owe THOUSANDS of dollars to sell off the house, and then come live with us?? Never getting out of debt again? Rather than just selling now, soaking up the couple hundred that they owe now, and getting an apartment, and rid of the boat.

And for real, why do you need two cars, when 1 person can't drive anymore?

And why do you need 2 cell phones when 1 person is at home all day. (They have a landline too)

And do you really need a handle of whiskey every night??

ARRRGGGHHHH

eta: there are so many more details to this...that I Just don't have the time to get into. DH is the only child though. So eventually their irresponsibility falls on our shoulders. Before marrying I understood the concept of marrying into an entire FAMILY. BUt marrying into this MESS was not what I had in mind. I come from a long line of poorer, but financially responsible people. This kind of behavior just BLOWS. MY. MIND.

[hopefulfaith]

What a disaster. I have to gently say that no way would I let them live with me. They might be his parents, yeah, and irresponsible with finances - but if they're alcoholics, what kind of behavior would they be modeling for your kids? I would start researching housing assistance & being ready for the inevitable in order to help them with their options and all, but I would not let them live with me.

[Kirsten]

Not.Your.Responsibility.

You cannot control other adults. This is THEIR problem, and THEY will live with the consequences.

Tell them you've changed your mind about them staying with you. If they lose their house, they rent. If they can't afford rent, they go on public assistance I guess.

They are making poor choices. Don't make YOUR family pay for those poor choices.

If they run their lives into a ditch, that isn't your fault or problem. That sucks for them and you can feel bad for them, but it doesn't come back to you. You aren't legally or morally responsible for this. You really aren't.

[sanguine_speed]

I would too suggest totally letting this go. You are suffering (your anger) for their choices, and you just have to choose not to if you ever want to be free from it. They are adults and honestly if you want to help, I don't think offering them your place to stay right now is the right thing to do. In essence, you'd be enabling their irresponsibility, and yeah, inviting alcoholics into your home that includes your kids isn't really a great idea IMO.

[zebra15]

I agree, I dont see how this is your or your DH problem....

[sanguine_speed]

Originally Posted by chirp

DH is the only child though. So eventually their irresponsibility falls on our shoulders. Before marrying I understood the concept of marrying into an entire FAMILY. BUt marrying into this MESS was not what I had in mind.

Oh, I just caught this.

What causes you to feel this way? It is inaccurate. He does not need to shoulder any responsbility for any of this.

[Porcelain Interior]

Let it go, AND don't let them move in with you. Why on Earth would you reward such crappy irresponsible behavior? DH's parents or not- they aren't the type of people you want mooching off of you until they die.

Help facilitate budgetting, offer to help them sell some of their assets, but don't take on their stress. I hate to say who cares, but really- when people sabotage themselves sometimes you just gotta say oh well. They won't do any better when you're footing their major expenses.

My dad drank himself into a suicide attempt and is now 100% disabled, he pissed his money away on beer and cars and dumbness. He quit drinking, straightened himself out and now I'd help him in a heartbeat- if he hadn't straightened himself out I wouldn't have given him the time of day.

Don't take on other people's burdens especially if they don't even care enough to fix it don't bother with it.

Maybe do an intervention?

[chirp]

thanks for all the replies.

just leaving them to their own destruction seems easier said than done though.

especially since MIL has only been married to this guy for 5 years. Less time than me and DH have been together. She had the mortgage on her house paid off and a job with the state as a court clerk, making good money with good benefits.

then he convinced her to quit her job, "they both" made the decision to cash in her pension, he's been working under the table, hourly, for the same company, for over 20 years, and is eligible for almost NO benefits.

I guess we just feel obliged to help because their financial problems are so sudden. Or rather, HER financial problems are so sudden. She had that damn house paid off. DH grew up in that house. It's a shame that it's so close to being lost.

I guess we also feel obliged because we would want people to do the same for us (even though our spending behavior and attitude towards money are NOTHING like theirs, and hopefully, most likely, we won't find ourselves in a similar situation.)

When they declined our offer to move in they said that they weren't worried about losing the house because even if it gets sold in a tax sale they can't be evicted for 2 years. I tried explaining to them that if the lien holder waited two years to evict them it would increase their responsibility by 50% (to assuage the lien holder, that's what they do in Jersey, if i'm reading correctly).

So they say they are not worried. Cause no matter what they still have 2 years in their house. If they want to take things that far, and get that far into debt, then fine. Maybe at the end of two years we won't be in the position to help them anymore.

I am pregnant. Due in March. This is not how I pictured my early married life. Taking care of two kids and two alcoholics. What fun.

[Smithie]

I'm so sorry for this stress in your life, especially when you are expecting. And I'm sorry that your MIL has made such bad decisions in recent years. And I can only imagine how your DH is feeling watching his mom's life circle the drain.

But. BUT. There's no question of the money and space and time and energy that your children deserve being shared with two alcoholics if/when they finally hit bottom from the consequences of their apocalyptically awful choices and come looking to you for help. As your kids' mom, your responsibility is to say NO to any of that nonsense. Since it sounds like things aren't going to hit a crisis point tomorrow, maybe you should just lay out your position to your DH, so it won't be a shock later on, and then do the best you can to drop it from your mind for awhile. If researching the bankruptcy/public assistance options brings you peace of mind in knowing what advice you can given when the time comes, go ahead and do that.

You can't control what other adults do. The thing you CAN control is in keeping all of that destructive misery far away from your threshold and your bank account.

[Poddi]

I totally understand your feelings. I have parents who aren't too smart with their money either and a brother who's eternally broke. It's hard to not nag them and give advices and drag yourself into it. However I told them I'd never let anybody move in with me again. (We took in my old grandma and we'll never do it again.) They can apply for government housing or share with roommates if they can't afford their current home any more.

Why do you feel obliged to offer them to stay with you? Are they Asian?

I'd maybe buy them a couple financial management books as gift. Maybe even a personal finance course at the local college if your MIL is willing to take it. That's about it.

[confustication]

:/ It sounds like your MIL has gotten herself into a horrible situation with this guy. Is there any chance he's abusive/controlling? That's the first thing that comes to mind when I read through your post....

I do think your husband should have a chat with her of the 'what's going on?' sort, because while she is an adult, this is a HUGE change over a relatively short period of time.

As for the rest, let them live their lives, and keep yourselves as uninvolved as possible unless they ask for help- and if/when they do, you'll have to look at the situation at that point in time.

[chirp]

hahahaha!

no, none of us are Asian. I guess it's not typically American to feel obligated to one's parents?? I always grew up being taught that it was top priority to take care of your family. That family always came first. Destructive, manipulative family aside, of course. And I guess that's what they would be classified as.

As per the "can he be abusive" question. Let's just put it this way. We were over there for dinner one night (her birthday dinner to be exact). Her brother didn't show up for that dinner and she was upset and started to leak (cry) just a little. He slammed his fork down and said "Oh Jesus, L, you're gonna start this sh!t now? You're going to ruin my dinner with this sh!t?"

I looked at DH expecting a response. If someone had talked to my mother that way I certainly would have responded. But DH didn't say a word, she stopped crying, and SFIL continued to talk about NASCAR and the myriad of other things that didn't include my MIL or her feelings, or her birthday.

Yes she can be emotional. But his attitude towards her, and his negating her feelings does not help.

Plus, I have more than a sneaking suspicion that he's cheated on her, repeatedly.

This guy pisses me off to the tenth degree. The idea of spending the whole day with him, protecting my children from him just sends shivers through me.

I think I will change my position on this. Especially since this catastrophe isn't happening overnight. It will be easy to explain a change in my position once the new baby is born. I can just explain to DH that I think with two children in the house, taking care of his parents would be infinitely harder. He has already acknowledged how hard it would be on me to take care of SFIL. He knows how I feel about the man. And that because of his disability he would be here ALL.DAY.LONG. with me. Unable to drive. Watching Nascar. Drinking beer and Whiskey. Smoking cigarettes (outside, of course, but still stinking up my house) and insisting that we buy the pork loin instead of the lentils. (We're not vegetarian, but eat healthy food on a modest budget...so that means lentils and organic milk instead of bacon and beer.)

Actually come to think of it, we don't even have any channels on our tv, so he couldn't even watch NASCAR. He'd be miserable here too.

[hopefulfaith]

Thinking about your kids witnessing your SFIL's behavior makes me ill. I am glad you are changing your position on this. I come from a family where we take care of each other (nobody's ever been in a NH, etc.), including housing, so I get that ... but bringing that kind of awful, toxic, disgusting behavior into your house and into your children's lives takes it to a whole new level.

I'm glad you're rethinking this. There are many ways to help without taking them into your home.

[Leta]

My family obligations do not extend to deadbeat MIL husbands. It would be different if he were really your DH's stepdad who raised him or something. But he isn't. He's your MIL's husband. It's not the same thing.

[Ola_]

Yikes, what an awful situation. Personally I would extend the offer to let MIL stay with you temporarily to get back on her feet *after* she leaves her husband. There is no way I would let that guy stay in my house with my children, no way at all. He is not family, he sounds abusive and controlling, and I don't want my kids to be exposed to that on a daily basis. At the odd family get-together I could put up with it, but living with him full time? No way.

[chirp]

i guess the truth really is in the details...

and that truth is that although MIL had a good job and a pension...she is just as much to blame as SFIL.

my husband was practically abandoned as a child. in college i desperately wanted to take a bath one day (my apt only had a shower), so he drove me all the way to his house (my parents house was even farther away), cleaned his tub, and ran me a bubblebath. sweetest. thing. ever.

what i saw when i got there was just terrible though. he said his mom had not "lived" at the house for about 7 years. she just up and left him to take care of himself and the dog and cat. which while he was away at school were neglected. poop everywhere. dry water bowls. he loved his animals but just couldn't make the 2 hour drive everyday.

he told me that in that time he basically learned how to fend for himself by eating the cheapest food possible. his mom called him about once a month to ask him what he needed and how much the bills were, then dropped the checks off to him. no home cooked meals, no emotional support. nothing.

he got through the loneliest periods of his life by inviting friends to stay with him. basically it became a party house for teenagers. you could see anger in the holes in the walls. poverty in the total lack of food and the filth. the house was devoid of any feeling of home. it was devoid of furniture. even a bed for him. i appealed to my mom to give him my bed from home, since i was already moved out.

so then she marries this guy. they sell his trailer. move back into her house, (right after dh moved into his own apartment--not just college dorm during the school year).

the house looks great now. but i'll never forget what he was living like before she got married.

so she's no saint--is what i'm saying. her problems are her own. i'm not sure why dh feels obligated to her. perhaps he's just looking for love from her.

she has mental issues and one of the first things she said when i met her was "'Son' is just jealous because he doesn't hear the voices like I do." She was mocking him for hurting but not having the degree of depression and mental illness that she does.

Anyway. If I go all the way into their lives, this thread will seriously derail from the point of frugality and finances forum.

I'm just happy that my husband turned out to be an amazing, sweet, financially responsible guy. Amazingly enough MIL credits herself for that too. By leaving him on his own she made him into the man he is today. Perhaps that's true. But at such a terrible cost.

[SleeplessMommy]

I am sorry you are dealing with this...

There is a possibility the SFIL will move on to another (richer) woman after he exhausts your MIL's funds and credit rating The best you can do is meet with her (apart from him) and offer her housing in a non-judgmental way. You can't fix her problems, but you can offer a way out.

Was the blindness caused by alcoholism or something else? What is the life expectancy on SFIL?

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by chirp

I am pregnant. Due in March. This is not how I pictured my early married life. Taking care of two kids and two alcoholics. What fun.

Taking care of two alcoholics is your CHOICE. You and dp can take them in or not. It is NOT your responsibility to do so. If they lose the house, they lose the house. Sounds to me like it doesn't hold too many precious memories for your dp anyway.

I think it is nice that you feel an obligation to help family. But you can't SAVE them from themselves. I think your obligation should be to your dp and kids - and part of that obligation is keeping toxic and/or negative/selfish people like your MIL and SFIL out of your kids' daily lives. The stress you are under now (and they don't even live with you) is bad for you, bad for your unborn baby, bad for your relationship with your dp, bad for your dc1. This will only multiply if MIL and SFIL were to move in.

Let it go. Stop worrying about it. Whatever will be will be. It is THEIR issue and their problem. Not yours. Really.

[MissLotus]

OP, it's a bad situation, but a situation you have a choice to not be involved in!

I think that by telling them they can live with you, you're enabling them because they feel they have someone to bail them out no matter how irresponsible they are.

It would also be irresponsible of you to knowingly expose your children to their alcoholism. I personally believe that your first obligation is to your children, not to them.

[luv-my-boys]

QUOTE=Kirsten;14980304]Taking care of two alcoholics is your CHOICE. You and dp can take them in or not. It is NOT your responsibility to do so. If they lose the house, they lose the house. Sounds to me like it doesn't hold too many precious memories for your dp anyway.

I think it is nice that you feel an obligation to help family. But you can't SAVE them from themselves. I think your obligation should be to your dp and kids - and part of that obligation is keeping toxic and/or negative/selfish people like your MIL and SFIL out of your kids' daily lives. The stress you are under now (and they don't even live with you) is bad for you, bad for your unborn baby, bad for your relationship with your dp, bad for your dc1. This will only multiply if MIL and SFIL were to move in.

Let it go. Stop worrying about it. Whatever will be will be. It is THEIR issue and their problem. Not yours. Really.[/QUOTE]
Another question is do you really see them changing if they were to move in with you? Really change? It dosent sound like they will given their past history.