naps, and sleep in general

[MadiMamacita]

i read on here somewhere once that "sleep begets sleep". is that only for little babies?
ds will be one next week and we are having a rough week.

we have been tweaking his nap schedule, and it seems that he really still needs two naps, one about an hour after waking and the other sometime in the mid afternoon.

lately though, he's been not falling asleep until more like 4 or 5, and then up till 9 or 10, and then asleep again, waking sometime at 0 dark hundred.

if he sleeps around 2 or 3, he's up until 8ish and then pretty much sttn (with nursing throughout but it doesnt really disturb my sleep so i dont mind that)
until 8 or 9 am.

what do i do if he wont fall asleep early enough for his 2-3 oclock nap?
do you wake him up if its getting too late to still be napping?

i cant stand the crawling all over me in the middle of the night.

[peaceful_mama]

I'm dealing with stuff like today taking a nap from 10:30 to 12ish and then he really can't make it all the way to bedtime...but he's TIRED...but not at like 2 or 3 PM.

So he falls asleep like he did tonight around 5.

One of two things will happen. Either he will wake up on his own and stay up till midnightish and sleep till 8 Am probably.

OR he will not wake up till around 1 AM, he'll need to eat--because he usually eats dinner--and he'll stay up an hour or two and then go to bed until more like 9 AM.

there's no point in waking him up because he will just be crabby and not eat and it's just a miserable crabby experience for all till he goes back to sleep. (at least it was teh one time I ever tried to wake him from a nap--we were leaving to come home from a weekend out of town and I figured I'd try to have him eat and nurse before the 5 hr drive....)

*maybe* i'll try wake and cuddle and nurse and see if he gets over being crabby enough to eat something and then play a bit and go back to bed rather than sleep till 1 am...we'll see honestly most of the time if he's doing that I leave him just because it is much easier to get the other 2 to bed without a wide-awake toddler to also tend to.

[MadiMamacita]

what is going on with him??

yesterday-
short car nap (maybe 15-20 mins) around 1 pm,
pm nap 3ish-515
no sleep until around midnight, despite trying to get him to sleep starting around 730. and then up at 7am (where he woke up quietly and got down from the bed by himself for the first time..)
so all told, thats only a bit more than 9 hours.. thats surely not enough for a not-quite-one year old! what do I do??

[mamazee]

You started trying to get him to sleep at 7:30? What is the bedtime ritual - how relaxing is it? You could even try moving that up to 7 or 7:15. It's amazing that a 15-minute change can make a huge difference. Or you could wait to start putting him to bed until 8. I'd try one way and then the other. They have to be just getting sleepy, but not overly tired yet, and every kid is going to have a different thing that works. But I'd keep fiddling with the ritual and the bedtime routine. A story, maybe lie down and sing a lullaby, whatever.

Also, how long has this been going on? If it's something like teething pain, the good news is that it's temporary, but the bad news is that it's really hard to avoid some bad nights no matter what you do.

[MadiMamacita]

its only been the last few nights (less than a week)
i'm hoping its teething related..

last night he was nursing around 730 and was dozing. he looked asleep and i unlatched around 8 but he woke up and i couldn't get him back down. he normally nurses for 15-20 mins before falling asleep. if he's sleepy he will doze off. if he's over tired he fights it. he was fighting and fighting, and I gave up and let him play happily. he nursed again and finally slept around midnight.

[LindsC]

It was around that age that DS was starting to give up that first nap and we kind of helped it along. We would make sure to get a good breakfast into him and then keep him stimulated (playing, reading, outdoor play) to keep him distracted from needing that early nap. We would also do an early lunch around 11:30 and then down for nap shortly after that. He would typically nap until 3 or 4pm and then be ready for bed around 7pm.

There were days at first where that didn't work and he still took a morning nap, but I would say that within 2 months he had given up the morning nap and lunch around noon with his nap right after.

[MadiMamacita]

well that plan sounds great, but not going to happen today!
today he woke up at 7am, and was napping by 9 and up around 12.
provided he sleeps well tonight we'll try it out tomorrow

[MadiMamacita]

last night was much better!
he fell asleep (on his own.. so he was really tired!) at 4ish and then was awoken by the ringing phone 45 minutes later, then he was asleep by 9 and up at quarter to nine this morning. yay!
today we'll try pushing his nap to 12 or 1 and see if it works.
thanks for the advice!

[MamaPhD]

With my 14 mo DD, it really helps to be on schedule. I know it's not for everyone, but DD is really a schedule loving girl. Normally she will nap 11:30am-1pm, then 5:30-7pm. She goes to bed around 9-9:30pm, wakes up around 7:30. If any of this is off by 15-30 minutes, the whole day gets messed up!!! After several of those messed up days, I realized I have to keep her on her schedule. So If she doesn't nap till say 12:15pm for some reason, I wake her up at 1pm, because otherwise she is not sleepy by 5:30. Same with evening nap, if she is not up by 7, I wake her up.

Also, maybe the naps are sliding back. My DD used to sleep 10-12 and 4-6, and these slowly got later and later to the current 11:30-1 and 5:30-7. ALso shorter overall, if you noticed. WHen first nap slides over 12pm, I'm planning to drop the second nap and move up the bed time a bit. So maybe that's wat you have to do, keep 2 naps with later bedtime for now. And then go to 1 nap with earlier bedtime.

[marispel]

I haven't read everything...but it sounds like the little catnaps could be interfering with the naps. I know if my DS falls asleep in the car for even 10 minutes he gets a 2nd wind. Also, at 12 months I would think could be up in the morning for at least 3 hrs before needing a morning nap.

If DS is riding in the car and I see him getting sleepy (especially if we're on our way home), I'll do everything I can to keep him awake. I've even stopped the car and taken him out of the carseat to arouse him a bit. I would much prefer to have him nap for 2 hours in his crib than take a 10 minute catnap in the car and screw up the rest of his day.

I also think letting them sleep past 4 in the afternoon is going to mess with the bedtime. If it were me, I would gently wake him. I would rather have a crabby toddler for a bit than a toddler who won't go to bed.

Like PP - a schedule can really help your LO..they thrive on routine! Even if your DS doesn't fall asleep at the same time everyday, keep trying they will eventuallly get the hang of it. So, up at a certain time every. single. day. Breakfast at a certain time every. single. day., Morning nap at a certain time, every. single. day....etc. Consistency is the key!

[Luke's mama]

DS went through a lot of transitions and BAD night sleeping at that age, I guess with teething and developmental milestones. But it is so much better now that he has fully transitioned to 1 nap and we keep to a schedule. But I agree that sleeping past 4 causes bedtime problems, and I think it is ok to wake them gently, too. I would try to push the am nap until 11:30 or 12, and then maybe that could be the one nap of the day? Sometimes it probably won't work, but hopefully with moving to one nap things will go smoother.

[MadiMamacita]

its really hard!
thanks for the advice everyone.

RE: getting up, going to bed, etc at exactly the same time.. how do you do that??
I've always been terrible with schedules. I don't have much natural rhythm.. we do things at all sorts of different times.

Do most people get up, go to bed, eat breakfast, lunch and dinner at the same time every day? It doesn't help that I am an on-call employee so I don't have regular, set hours.. grr this is tricky!