Vitamin K at birth - Page 2

[cyberfish]

Originally Posted by buttercupmama

I've been told they don't have to ask about the vitamin K shot because it's 'routine.' I still see it as a violation. Their form specifically said absolutely nothing was to be given without consent. They didn't ask for my consent. They just gave it. So remember to bring it up beforehand because they more than likely won't.

And have another person there ready to aggressively stand up for this. My midwife birth ended up as a hospital C-section. I had a WRITTEN order for no vitamin K or eye gunk in case of hospital transfer and it was in my chart. They ignored it and told me their "medical science" trumped what I wanted. Baby got Vit K and eye goop. Still mad.

[ammiga]

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think that humans have destroyed their food for that long, compared to what it takes for evolution to occur. I think our food has been destroyed for less than 100 years, and that surely hasn't been long enough for a new way of making bm to have evolved. I take a pre-natal vitamin and eat a healthy organic diet, with almost entirely whole foods.

I also think that the body gives to the baby (whether while pregnant or nursing) before it gives to the mother, so I feel pretty secure that my child is getting whatever nutrients it needs from me and that a synthetic injection (which is not natural in any way in its contents or delivery method) is not the way to go.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by organicmom3

I don't think you need to be so abrasive with you response here...maybe it's just me, but I felt it was.....obviously I am looking into all the 'logic' here or I wouldn't have asked the question. It's also not a matter of evolution to me as I don't personally believe in that theory; at least not most of it. Humans have destroyed the nutrients in our food....so humans do, sadly, need supplementation...Obviously my research will entail just how much does the baby need and what's the best way to go about getting it......I'm thinking at this point, through me...but I will be doing more research....sigh...there's always SOMETHING new to research!

Not my intention to be abrasive at all!! It was more of a rhetorical question, not directed at you specifically. When communicating via the written word, things like this get lost, so I did not mean to offend!! sorry!!

[claddaghmom]

No, we did not allow Vit K, oral or injected.

I find it interesting that a random, mainstream website has this:

"WARNING: The injectable form of this medication must be used only when the oral form cannot be used. Injectable vitamin K can cause rare, possibly fatal allergic reactions, even during the first injection. Seek immediate medical attention if you experience symptoms of an allergic reaction such as rash, itching, swelling, dizziness or trouble breathing."


It seems to be rooted in the same philosophy as vaccination. Let's put your child at risk of some rare complication in case your child might get a rare complication. Not to be abrasive, but it's so loopy I just


This site was interesting:

http://legaljustice4john.com/jaundic...otNewborns.htm

Clearly they have a stance and are not hiding it, but I found that it contains a perspective not mentioned on other parenting/med sites.

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by claddaghmom

It seems to be rooted in the same philosophy as vaccination. Let's put your child at risk of some rare complication in case your child might get a rare complication.

This is brilliant.

[organicmom3]

We are definitely NOT doing the shot at this point....my husband has joined in on my research and it looks like I might take an extra supplement of k (very small amount) in addition to natural foods for baby to get plenty through the breastmilk....but possibly just the foods...still checking..we do eat a lot of leafy greens, so I'm thinking the foods may indeed be all we need..as long as I get them every day for the first few weeks....

[organicmom3]

Originally Posted by Marnica

Not my intention to be abrasive at all!! It was more of a rhetorical question, not directed at you specifically. When communicating via the written word, things like this get lost, so I did not mean to offend!! sorry!!

Sorry Marnica..... please put it off to pregnancy hormones and a bad day! No offense taken...just being sensitive!

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by organicmom3

We are definitely NOT doing the shot at this point....my husband has joined in on my research and it looks like I might take an extra supplement of k (very small amount) in addition to natural foods for baby to get plenty through the breastmilk....but possibly just the foods...still checking..we do eat a lot of leafy greens, so I'm thinking the foods may indeed be all we need..as long as I get them every day for the first few weeks....

glad you have come to a decosion....and no worries! I really think when we post in this manner, emotions, facial expressions, things like that cannot be conveyed so sometimes things come off sounding not the way they were intended!

[gracemamma]

I just read The Baby Bond- a fascinating book that looks into lots of scientific data into what is best for raising our babies.

http://www.amazon.com/Baby-Bond-Scie...5490118&sr=8-1

While she is slightly pro-vax she is quite anti-Vitamin K due to the leukemia connection. Her data says that the risks of leukemia vs. bleeding disorders without vitamin K are pretty similar but that by supplementing the breastfeeding mama (as other posters have advocated) neither of these risks exist.

That said, I, unfortunately, didn't know this when my babe was born in July and her ped told me that the oral vitamin K didnt work so we must do the injection. I guess sometimes we just make the best decisions we can with the info we have at the time-still bugs me though.

[member234098]

Why do you think most babies born in hospitals become jaundiced. I believe it is from the vIt k shot.

That has been known to be true for decades, and the hospitals continue to do it in spite of the evidence.

It is a case of one unnecessary intervention causing another intervention, resulting in another...et cetera.

[tessie]

Originally Posted by nia82

The vitamin K shot seemed odd to me from the get-go as it's not used in Europe (they use oral Konakion).

It depends on where you are in Europe. I'm in the UK and in my area the injection is the norm. We chose to give the injection because I personally was more comfortable with giving it than not.

I thought the link between jaundice and vit k was merely anecdotal? Has there been a study done recently? I definitely disagree with the notion that most hospital birthed babies get jaundice. I also thought that the more recent studies on vit k didn't find the leukaemia link?

Regarding the mother upping her level of vit k, apparently it doesn't pass through the placenta or bm in large enough quantities. At least that's what I've read - happy to be educated further if this isn't the case!

I always think it's somewhat ironic that breastfed babies are more likely to suffer the effects of HDN when bm is usually best.

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by tessie

Regarding the mother upping her level of vit k, apparently it doesn't pass through the placenta or bm in large enough quantities. At least that's what I've read - happy to be educated further if this isn't the case!

There seems to be a big difference between how K1 and K2 are transferred between mom and baby. K1 is what's usually been supplemented and studied in the US. K2, which is in various fatty animal foods and which seems to vary quite a bit based on how the animals are themselves raised, hasn't been studied as much, but the bits we know are fascinating. The link below discusses it and links to the abstracts and/or studies he's referencing.

Especially interesting since a guy named Weston Price wrote a book that, among other things, said our society consumes far, far too little K2, and that was based on his observations of the US diet in the 1930s.

http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/search?q=placenta

[nia82]

@ tessie: interesting, I had no idea the UK used the shot. I knew mainly about German-speaking countries and Scandinavia. My sister was definitely a tad baffled when I told her that they use the shot in the US (she's a doc in Germany). She wanted to mail me oral Konakion but I ordered the stuff from the midwifery store in Montana.

All the k1 and k2 information is so interesting. But from what I've read you have to eat organic animal organs (aka liver) to get a lot of MK7. But that's just not my cup of tea. Anyone of you has a great resource what else to do? I just realllllyyyy cannot eat animal organs, yucky, too squeamish!

[tanyalynn]

Originally Posted by nia82

All the k1 and k2 information is so interesting. But from what I've read you have to eat organic animal organs (aka liver) to get a lot of MK7. But that's just not my cup of tea. Anyone of you has a great resource what else to do? I just realllllyyyy cannot eat animal organs, yucky, too squeamish!

There are more fatty animal products, butter can be a good source, egg yolks are decent, I can see if I can find a list, I think odd organ meats like brains do as well, but does seem that the amount in the animal product depends on how the animal is raised, so cows eating grass, chickens finding bugs and plants and stuff. I've seen speculation that seafood is a good source as well, but again, it's probably when the whole fish is consumed.

http://www.westonaprice.org/On-the-T...lved.html#fig4

Animal products actually have MK4, not MK7... MK7 is a result of fermentation, so cheese will have a mix of MK4 directly from the milk and MK7 from the fermentation in the cheese-making process. Natto, a strongly flavored fermented soy product has tons and tons of MK7, but like the link said, it's not preferentially passed on the way MK4 is.

That said, for a variety of reasons we supplement.

There's a liquid supp, Thorne brand K2, that's 1000mcg per drop, which is a robust dose. And Carlson has a 5-mg (5000mcg, just so it doesn't look like I did a typo) that's a really high dose and most people wouldn't need that much, but the capsules can be opened if someone wanted just part.