avoiding being in a 2011 DDC too - Page 2

[Ninetales]

I plan on using charting and condoms. I don't have a problem with condoms (in fact I actually rather like the fact that they keep things much less messy for me), so we'll do those if I think I'm in an ovulation period. I also have TCOYF and will look through the chapters on LAM soon.

I won't use IUDs, I have a psychological issue with something foreign being up there all the time. I also decided that after the hell I went through after being on the pill that I would never mess with hormones again. It worked fine when I was younger for my acne and my periods, but at some point it stopped being helpful. After I went off it I could *feel* my head kind of clear up, like I'd been in a fog for a long time and didn't notice. The last few years I really think it made me crazy and that scares me that I didn't notice anything. And then it took a year to get pregnant - that was scary seeing as how we were only 26. So yeah, no hormones for me ever again. If we have a house full of stair step kids, I'll make do. Hormones scare me *that* much.

[NicoleS]

Originally Posted by beccabus

Oh I am so right there with you Nicole on that subject and so using Mirena is a concern of mine although that is the option we're planning on using right now. I did some research on the subject of preventing implantation and birth control and there appears to be some disagreement over whether or not birth control like that actually prevents implantation. All birth control is supposed to prevent implantation, but I guess they haven't done enough research on what actually happens when a woman conceives....whether it actually DOES prevent implantation... I'll try and post the stuff I found on it...

Let me know what you find - it can be difficult to find "unbiased" stuff out there...

I know the literature that we passed out at the pregnancy crisis center (which is Christian-run) said that the hormonal IUD works in basically 3 ways:

1) irritates the uterus to make it more hostile to sperm
2) attempts to prevent ovulation
3) thins out the lining so that an egg cannot implant

Which more or less sums up most hormonal birth control. Unfortunately, no one seems to know which is the one that would work in any given case. And I've known at least two women who got pregnant with the IUD in place - one had an ectopic pregnancy, which obviously had to be terminated, and the other had a uterine pregnancy that came out/was miscarried with the IUD when the IUD was removed (I guess if you do get pregnant then the IUD needs to come out ASAP or you run the risk of puncturing your uterus?). I personally experienced enough guilt over my miscarriages (which as we all know occur due to no fault of our own) that I know I couldn't handle the thought of getting pregnant and then having to terminate a pregnancy because of something I did (even though that obviously wasn't the intended outcome). So I personally won't do anything that has the risk of blocking a fertilized egg from being implanted, even if the actual risk of that is a very small percentage.

Disclaimer: I know everyone has different feelings on when life begins and whatnot, so no judgment here, I'm just saying MY feelings.

To some extent, I'm sort of glad that the neurologist gave me an "out" for hormonal methods. Because of my extreme sensitivity to hormonal changes she wants me to stay away from anything with hormones in it, including "localized" hormones like an IUD or the Nuvaring. (You might recall the terrible migraines I got in the first trimester). So while not everyone will understand or agree with my religious/moral/emotional views on using hormonal birth control, most will respect a MEDICAL reason for it. Including DH, who, being somewhat "removed" I suppose from the whole process and pretty much considers the fetus to be a "blob of cells" until 8 weeks or so when he gets to see that first u/s.

So it will pretty much be condoms or pull and pray over here I guess.

[lunita1]

Originally Posted by HappiLeigh

I mean, if you want to be, good for you.

But I'm thinking about birth control. Several friends of mine got the Mirena IUD at their 6 week pp visit and didn't have any trouble. I'm a little concerned about taking anything hormonal (even though I know it is supposed to be local only) while nursing. The copper IUD is just not an option for me, due to a close friend's bad experience. But I got AF back pretty early after DD was born--maybe 4 months? Even though I nursed on demand. And I seriously don't want to be pregnant again. Like really really really really really. Maybe ever, but definitely not for years. I have charted my cycles with great success while TTC, but I don't think that would work for me during the first year of new baby's life, what with all the night-waking and such. Plus, honestly, it's clear when it's my fertile time--that's when I want to DTD, which doesn't actually provide any kind of birth control whatsoever! We used condoms during the years between children, just for lack of making a decision about anything else, but I find them irritating and inconvenient.
Any input about the Mirena thing, or anyone else thinking about this now?

FWIW, I've never begun cycling before 14 months post partum and even once my period started my cycles were anovulatory more often than not until my kids were closer to two years old (we cosleep and they've been night nursers until past the two year mark). I'd be very hesitant to begin anything hormonal until after the one year mark (I'd probably never actually use a hormonal method, but definitely not before baby is a year old). The mirena and the mini pill are SUPPOSED to be compatible with breastfeeding, but they seem to sometimes compromise milk supply. You can at least stop the mini pill more easily than you can remove the mirena. We'll use condoms, and then eventually get my tubes tied (this is #4, and I just can't do pregnancy again!)

[beccabus]

Originally Posted by NicoleS

Let me know what you find - it can be difficult to find "unbiased" stuff out there...

I know the literature that we passed out at the pregnancy crisis center (which is Christian-run) said that the hormonal IUD works in basically 3 ways:

1) irritates the uterus to make it more hostile to sperm
2) attempts to prevent ovulation
3) thins out the lining so that an egg cannot implant

Which more or less sums up most hormonal birth control. Unfortunately, no one seems to know which is the one that would work in any given case. And I've known at least two women who got pregnant with the IUD in place - one had an ectopic pregnancy, which obviously had to be terminated, and the other had a uterine pregnancy that came out/was miscarried with the IUD when the IUD was removed (I guess if you do get pregnant then the IUD needs to come out ASAP or you run the risk of puncturing your uterus?). I personally experienced enough guilt over my miscarriages (which as we all know occur due to no fault of our own) that I know I couldn't handle the thought of getting pregnant and then having to terminate a pregnancy because of something I did (even though that obviously wasn't the intended outcome). So I personally won't do anything that has the risk of blocking a fertilized egg from being implanted, even if the actual risk of that is a very small percentage.

Disclaimer: I know everyone has different feelings on when life begins and whatnot, so no judgment here, I'm just saying MY feelings.

To some extent, I'm sort of glad that the neurologist gave me an "out" for hormonal methods. Because of my extreme sensitivity to hormonal changes she wants me to stay away from anything with hormones in it, including "localized" hormones like an IUD or the Nuvaring. (You might recall the terrible migraines I got in the first trimester). So while not everyone will understand or agree with my religious/moral/emotional views on using hormonal birth control, most will respect a MEDICAL reason for it. Including DH, who, being somewhat "removed" I suppose from the whole process and pretty much considers the fetus to be a "blob of cells" until 8 weeks or so when he gets to see that first u/s.

So it will pretty much be condoms or pull and pray over here I guess.

So here's the information I was looking at from the American Association of Pro-Life Obstetricians and Gynecologists:
http://www.aaplog.org/PositionsAndPa....aspx?fileID=1

Within that, there are two papers that disagree with each other over whether or not hormonal birth control/IUDs actually prevents implantation...

Such a difficult subject to try and understand and make a call on... I am glad you are at peace with your decision. I am not there yet, but am praying for God to reveal clearly what He wants us to do..

[NicoleS]

Originally Posted by beccabus

Within that, there are two papers that disagree with each other over whether or not hormonal birth control/IUDs actually prevents implantation...

That's the other thing that bothers me, when life begins issues aside. I just cannot be comfortable taking something that even the medical community can't agree on how it works! The whole "we don't know how it works, we just know that it does" thing doesn't sit well with me.

[beccabus]

Originally Posted by NicoleS

That's the other thing that bothers me, when life begins issues aside. I just cannot be comfortable taking something that even the medical community can't agree on how it works! The whole "we don't know how it works, we just know that it does" thing doesn't sit well with me.

Yeah, no kidding, huh? Totally agree, it's very unsettling...

[mommeeoh]

I'm so jealous of those of you who go for a long time without ppaf -- I always start no later than 6m even with nursing on demand and night nursing. We got pg with #2 at 7m when we were "not trying/not preventing" thinking nothing would happen right away since it took forever to ttc #1.

And thanks to those who suggested "Taking Charge of Your Fertility", I'd forgotten all about that book. I'll have to look into getting it.

[linchi]

Originally Posted by buckeye_bebe

I'm going with abstinence, even though that won't do anything for anhedonia. If I abstain from abstinence, I am going to use a Lea's shield with contraceptive film. I'd like a pill to restore libido....

Me too!

Originally Posted by Marylizah

I'm thinking about an IUD too-- not sure if I'll go with a copper one or Mirena. But I don't think I'll get one until this baby is about 1. In the meantime we'll use condoms (what we've always used, with no issues).

Linchi, if you are still in France when your DH is ready to get a vas, know that it's very, very difficult to find a doctor who will do one. It's just not something that's common here. You may have to go to Germany or the UK. Just a heads up!

Oh, I dunno when we'd be ready to make a decision that permanent, but it's good to know! I wonder why it's so uncommon here. Ay, the French!


It seems that the Nuvaring isn't compatible with breastfeeding according to their site. Still searching... Any word on that magic wang Keeta?

[OlyR]

Originally Posted by jul511riv

Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Whescheler.

agreed. I just need to read up on the breastfeeding and charting section. And then hope that sometime I have a normal cycle. I love that book and think it should be required reading for every female (and their partners!)

[HappiLeigh]

Originally Posted by jul511riv

Taking Charge of Your Fertility by Toni Whescheler.

Yeah, that's what I meant in the OP when I said charting. Love the book, and think it should be required reading for womanhood, but I tried charting after my DD was born, and it just was more than I could handle with the all-night breastfeeding. Plus, as I said, even without the precise charts it's pretty clear when I'm fertile--and the book itself doesn't provide any kind of actual birth control at all, unless maybe I throw at it at my partner during my fertile phase?

Love the magic wang idea.

I share some of your reservations about the hormones in the Mirena. I also had lots of side effects on BCP and am concerned that even the low dose could cause some, or mess with my milk supply, or just creepily give me extra estrogen at a time that I'm breastfeeding a baby boy. I think if I do go that route, I'll wait until he's a year.

Hadn't really considered the diaphram idea--does anyone else have experience with that? Seems like it would have a similar hassle-level to condoms, but without the irritation and the ick smell?

[aramat]

Originally Posted by keeta

but yeah, i'd much prefer that magic wand method you mentioned (i accidentally just typed magic wang - if only! )

bwah!

[Ambystoma]

Originally Posted by HappiLeigh

I share some of your reservations about the hormones in the Mirena. I also had lots of side effects on BCP and am concerned that even the low dose could cause some, or mess with my milk supply, or just creepily give me extra estrogen at a time that I'm breastfeeding a baby boy. I think if I do go that route, I'll wait until he's a year.

Hadn't really considered the diaphram idea--does anyone else have experience with that? Seems like it would have a similar hassle-level to condoms, but without the irritation and the ick smell?

Yeah, I feel creepy about giving my kid hormones through the milk. I mean, I only ingest hormone free milk/meat/eggs, etc, because I worry about things like that. Not sure I feel good about my milk not being synthetic hormone-free!

Also, glad I'm not the only one who thinks they stink...bleh. I haven't used a diaphragm, but I've considered getting fitted after the baby is born. It seems like it would be a similar hassle--you have to put it in right before, right? That's why I'm getting with the sponge until I figure out what to do--you can put it in hours before. But, I imagine it would feel a heck of a lot better than condoms.

[Keeta]

Originally Posted by HappiLeigh

Hadn't really considered the diaphram idea--does anyone else have experience with that? Seems like it would have a similar hassle-level to condoms, but without the irritation and the ick smell?

I tried it, and HATED it. WAY more of a hassle than a condom and takes more prep. Instead of ripping open a packet and rolling something on, you have to a) go to a private place, cuz inserting it is seriously unsexy b) fill an applicator with spermicidal jelly c) apply it to the diaphragm correctly and carefully and d) insert the dang slippery thing e) making sure it's all sealed up and in the correct spot. Talk about breaking the mood! The whole thing just took way too much time, felt like a science experiment, and made me totally lose the mood and I think still smells gross (spermicidal jelly - ewwww!). I know you can insert it up to 6 (I think?) hours in advance of intercourse, but I'm seriously not a planner when it comes to sex. I guess if you're one of those date night people who plans on doing it no matter what, it might work for you, but I'm more of a spontaneous heat of the moment type, so it REALLY didn't work for me. YMMV.

[jul511riv]

Originally Posted by OlyR

agreed. I just need to read up on the breastfeeding and charting section. And then hope that sometime I have a normal cycle. I love that book and think it should be required reading for every female (and their partners!)

Agreed.

[QUOTE=HappiLeigh;14987206]Yeah, that's what I meant in the OP when I said charting. Love the book, and think it should be required reading for womanhood, but I tried charting after my DD was born, and it just was more than I could handle with the all-night breastfeeding. Plus, as I said, even without the precise charts it's pretty clear when I'm fertile--and the book itself doesn't provide any kind of actual birth control at all, unless maybe I throw at it at my partner during my fertile phase?

QUOTE]

Yeah, the temps thing might not be so accurate with the all night BF...but it's worth a shot. Either way, if you read the part on BF, she says that the BIG sign here is a change in your CF, and you can check that all throughout the day by either looking at your underwear/tp or just doing an internal check once or twice a day. As for not offering any kind of actual birth control, of course it does...but YOU choose what you want to use. You could use a spermicidal film (which I dont' really dig, cause you are putting poison right into your vagina and basically rubbing it all over your and your dh's intimate parts...just doesn't sound healthy to me...no matter WHERE you put a poison on your body, but even more so there because the body is not like one part is in a vaccum over here and another part over there, everything is interconnected and you put poisons in one place and the accumuluate in other parts of the body, etc...), condom, abstinence, etc... during your fertile phase. That is the beauty of it. You KNOW when you need to use something (or not have sex at all) and then you act accordingly and the rest of the time you are "home free" (G-d Willing)

[NicoleS]

I like the idea of natural family planning - but not sure how well it will actually work? I do not have a huge noticeable change in cervical fluid/mucous throughout the month. I've done charting in the past to try and determine why I'm so ridiculously irregular (a normal cycle for me can be anywhere from 28 to 42 days long) and all I found was that I seem to ovulate whenever the heck I feel like. My post-ovulation/luteal phase is pretty consistent, so I can predict AF once I get a clear ovulation pattern, but that's about it. And since I was charting when DS was conceived I know he was conceived by having sex 5 days before ovulation...so, when you figure AF lasts a week (and TMI but we don't "do the deed" when AF is on) and I have ovulated as early as CD 12 - pretty much that we couldn't have unprotected sex until after I ovulated if we wanted to be "safe". Having a 12 day window to have sex every 6 weeks probably isn't going to go over well...especially since we are also more "spur of the moment" people when there's time, desire, and all the kids are asleep...OH, and I start ovulating pretty much right away. I haven't tried temping before my first AF (which so far has happened at 3 months post partum every time) but have started when she does - and ovulated every single time after that. Even breastfeeding I haven't gotten anovulatory cycles - just irregular ones. Call me Fertile Myrtle I guess....

[lulu_n2]

I had a Mirena after having DS (only took one cycle after removal to get pregnant!) I loved it! I do want to wait several months b/f getting another, just to let my body regain some hormonal balance. I did charting b/f DS, and it worked because I had regular cycles, after DS they weren't regular and we had a serious pregnancy scare!!!! People get pregnant b/f they start periods again, people ovulate at odd times, sperm can last 4 or 5 days, after the last scare, I just won't risk it (and DS is a condom baby , so I neither like them, nor trust them)

I started the mini pill 8 M postpartum and hated it, made me feel crazy and made my periods horrible. Then I switched to the IUD, and even though the hormone is the same, the dose is SOOOOOO much lower. I felt normal, had very light periods (some cramping in the first month, no problems after).
The IUD has a string that comes out of your cervix. You are supposed to check it periodically. You are more likely to forget a pill, or have a condom malfunction, then have your IUD fall out. You could teach your partner to check it as foreplay

I have 2 friends who tried the copper IUD. One got pregnant w/it, the other had to remove it after 3 months because of cramping. The hormones in the Mirena ease cramping.

The IUD does do the 3 things NicoleS mentioned, and also one more
#4 - Maintains your mucus plug, which would normally thin out during ovulation to allow sperm to pass.

Eventually DH will get snipped, but I want him to wait a little longer. Just considering all the awful things that could happen, we are still young and may want another child later.

[jul511riv]

Originally Posted by NicoleS

I like the idea of natural family planning - but not sure how well it will actually work? I do not have a huge noticeable change in cervical fluid/mucous throughout the month. I've done charting in the past to try and determine why I'm so ridiculously irregular (a normal cycle for me can be anywhere from 28 to 42 days long) and all I found was that I seem to ovulate whenever the heck I feel like. My post-ovulation/luteal phase is pretty consistent, so I can predict AF once I get a clear ovulation pattern, but that's about it. And since I was charting when DS was conceived I know he was conceived by having sex 5 days before ovulation...so, when you figure AF lasts a week (and TMI but we don't "do the deed" when AF is on) and I have ovulated as early as CD 12 - pretty much that we couldn't have unprotected sex until after I ovulated if we wanted to be "safe". Having a 12 day window to have sex every 6 weeks probably isn't going to go over well...especially since we are also more "spur of the moment" people when there's time, desire, and all the kids are asleep...OH, and I start ovulating pretty much right away. I haven't tried temping before my first AF (which so far has happened at 3 months post partum every time) but have started when she does - and ovulated every single time after that. Even breastfeeding I haven't gotten anovulatory cycles - just irregular ones. Call me Fertile Myrtle I guess....

Nicole, you actually have to get thsi book (TCOYF) and read it to understand the ins and outs of it. And I've read it ZILLIONS of times. I learn something new every single time I read it.

I bought the book for my sister and she read "some" of the book and told me it wasn't going to work for her. I was asking her why and she was like "oh, well I'm not having periods and I don't know when I ovulate...and I don't ovulate...and..." and I was like how do you know? And I realized that she kind of just skimmed the book but didn't really READ it and teach herself the method. So I was like "listen, just READ the book and really LEARN it. Then take a class if you need to (there are FAM practitioners ALL OVER the place) and THEN decide if it won't work for you..."

I really believe that EVERYONE can get something out of the method...and probably more than one would realize. (like, you can learn about your luteal phase...or that you might have a thyroid condition, etc.. from charting...though she doesn't go into all those details in the book, once you've got the method down and you notice patterns...even if you are "irregular" there are patterns...then you can take a class or search some stuff or talk with other mamas who have and get more information about things.

Anyways, just my .02

[NicoleS]

Yeah, I haven't read the book - maybe I should see if the library has it. I've done charting though - but just with temps, noting AF, and when we did the deed. The whole cervical position eludes me (can't ever find it) and like I said I don't seem to have noticeable changes in CM/CF either.

[AustinKate]

Originally Posted by HappiLeigh

Hadn't really considered the diaphram idea--does anyone else have experience with that? Seems like it would have a similar hassle-level to condoms, but without the irritation and the ick smell?

I used a diaphragm before we were ttc, and really liked it. Keeta's right about it not exactly helping with spontaneity, though. And you have to leave it in for a certain period of time afterwards, I think about 8 hours? So it really depends on your lifestyle and preferences. For me, though, I was just so fed up with everything else I'd tried, and was so certain I don't want the hormones in my body, that this was a relief. I found it easy to use, and best of all, not painful like the Paraguard was. But I also have a friend who has the Paraguard and none of the cramping I had, so maybe I was just one of those people who can't tolerate it...

[hapersmion]

Yep, once I looked up the nuvaring it's a definite no-go. :P I wonder why my midwife recommended it at 6 weeks post-partum last time, how silly of her.

Looks like we'll just have to rely on condoms and charting. I've ruled out everything else! *shrug* Well, it worked for us for four months before, and we get pregnant easily, it seems.

My husband wants to get snipped eventually, but it freaks me out! Not only is it a body-alteration, which is drastic to me, but what if we change our minds? It's so weird to me that he wants this, he is scared of needles... But that's for the future, we probably want three kids anyway.