Ideas on how to physically disengage from a child - Page 2

[mommariffic]

I don't understand why 90% of the posts in this community that are referring to odd behavior are almost immediately "red flags" for emotional or sexual abuse. While this is the sometimes the case, it's not always the case. I know plenty of people that have clingy children and that's just the child's personality - they are sensitive, autistic, delayed emotionally etc and are cared for by EXTREMELY amazing parents.

I am just saying: instead of acting like this child is some sort of parasite, talk to her mother. Maybe she is a little delayed and doesn't understand -- maybe the mother just needs to explain to her daughter just HOW MUCH you don't like it. I'm not trying to sound rude, but I don't think honestly no, that I would be dismissive of a child -- I'm pregnant and if someone ran up to me I'd say "whoa gentle.." because a child is a child is a child.

[_betsy_]

My post came from this perspective:

We live in a condo complex. Lots of families. Last summer, there was a girl, probably about 8, who would sit in her bedroom window and wait for my DDs and I to take a walk and/or go to the complex's playground. She would bring her younger siblings (and a cousin, maybe?) (2, sometimes 3 kids, the youngest was just barely 2). I think they may have been left alone at home, or been with a grandma who couldn't corral them all day and shooed them outside, or something.

This little girl touches everyone too much. Gets much too close to me, wants to sit in my lap even when I was slinging a small baby. Isn't interested in playing with my 3 yo, wants my attention. And is willing to be loud, aggressive and intolerable in order to get it. She gives way too much information and asks me very pointed, much-too-personal questions.

They live 2 buildings down, and when we have the windows open in the summer, I can hear the father screaming at them. I've called the cops when I was pretty sure he was beating at least one of them.

They moved out a few months ago. I heard through the condo grapevine that the mom took the kids and got out.

So, yeah, sorry if that is coloring my opinion of this little girl.

[Subhuti]

I think using you as a jungle gym could be a form of social dominance. One of my daughters does it playfully to us, the other seems to want to assert her control over us. To claim us.

It's very primative. The way I handle it is say "let's have a hug, but what you're doing is painful"

Hope this helps

[Catubodua]

very interesting perspectives! and thank you for those who understand that my default position isn't to yell at her, but in the moment i just couldn't help myself.

as for the questions of her home life and / or any medical conditions - i barely know them, and can tell you their first names and the area of the condos where they live, but i couldn't tell you which unit or anything else about them. i have not gotten any weird vibes from mom or either of the kids. i have met the step-dad and he seems normal / average. i just assumed she was just an extremely affectionate / clingy child.

it would be next to impossible to speak to the mom without the child being there. i've never run into them except when they are outside playing / walking as a family. i suppose i could do a bunch of asking around to try to figure out their name or phone number, but it seems a stretch to do so. i'm really hoping that mom discusses the incident with her again to reinforce how not to do that to people (not just pregnant ladies!).

and, of course, i'll feel more comfortable next time reminding her "remember i asked you not to hold my hands?" now that i was forceful in telling her to stop at the party. i don't want to use the idea of switching it to a high 5 because i don't want physical contact with her.

for the ideas of crossing the street / avoiding them - i guess it's hard to explain for folks who don't live in a condo situation, but we've only got one "street" and it goes in a circle and it's just about wide enough to fit two cars that pass each other. you can see people coming from a good distance, and i have done about faces from time to time when i see they are outside playing, but it really screws up our evening walk. i hate that i have to shift around what i want to do or go back in the house early just because of them.


for the PP who said she's possibly just looking for some TLC - that's fine, but it's not my problem to fill that need for her. i continue to go back to my basic premise in these types of situations - the person being touched gets to decide where their comfort zone is. other people don't get to decide for them. it's nice that you wouldn't be bothered, but i am, and i find there to be no reason to accomodate someone making me uncomfortable, no matter how old they are.

[Kirsten]

Originally Posted by Comtessa

as their teacher - I really cannot ever be hugging my students, it's inappropriate. Even if they hug me first!

IME, the children who are most likely to do this are often very emotionally immature and use physical touch to communicate their needs. As a PP said, it's usually their way of saying "please pay attention to me!"

I have to second a pp that not hugging your students is very sad to me. My early elementary teachers hugged me. My daughters' preschool and early elementary teachers hug/hugged them - even dd1's 6'6" male 2nd and 3rd grade teacher, who is now my dd3's 1st grade teacher. When I first met him, the new principal told the PTA meeting that teachers were not to touch or hug students. I was horrified, and went directly to him after the meeting. I told him he had my permission to touch or hug my child is she was sad or proud or whatever reasonable situation that called for it. A pat on the shoulder or a hug is fine with me. I told him I'd sign something for him, but he said it wasn't necessary.

I think it depends on the age/grade to some extent, but although older kids may not need a hug as much or as often, they still do now and then. At any age, for some kids, a kind word, a smile, a compliment, or yes even a hug may be crucial for that child on that day.

I do agree that this girl's behavior (in the OP) is a sign of immaturity, and a way to force attention to be paid to the child.

Originally Posted by One_Girl

I don't think this is a sign of emotional immaturity. My dd loves to hug people and hold their hands as she talks to them, but she is also very aware of her emotions and the emotions of people around her and she will stop when asked to stop. She is offended when people don't want to talk to her or hold her hand, but she will stop. I think some kids, and adults also, are just more touchy feely. I don't think you should assume that the mother doesn't talk to her daughter about respecting different people or that the daughter has something seriously wrong with her. She probably talks to the child gently in public because she wants to preserve her childs self worth while also helping her to move away from the person who is uncomfortable being touched.

If you can I suggest crossing the street when you see these people coming.

It depends on how old your dd is - I wouldn't consider it emotional immaturity for a 4 year old. An 8 year old - definitely. As a child and as an adult, I love to hug people too - but being aware doesn't just happen after; it should happen before. Stopping when asked to stop is good, but better to understand that she doesn't get to hug and/or hold hands with anyone she encounters. Mom and dad - yes, probably anytime other than sickness or in the middle of something that precludes it. Gramma, auntie, best friend's mom, family friend who lives across the street - probably most of the time but don't go overboard with it. Everyone else - wait and see.

And I think it is the job of the parent(s) to teach her who she can hug/hold hands with and who she can't. To hug or hold hands for a short while then give the person some space. Even role play reactions - facial expressions and body language for example.

I would assume the girl's mother isn't teaching her appropriately because 1) the 8 year old is still doing it, and 2) mom's response to about taking out a pregnant lady and spilling a drink on another person was "be more careful around pregnant ladies". It should have been "honey, don't grab people's hands when they don't know you are there - she almost fell!" That isn't self-esteem damaging - it is self-esteem damaging to let a kid continue in a behavior that makes people want to avoid her, and the girl doesn't know why. THAT is damaging to her. Explaining social graces isn't.

And crossing the street isn't going to deter an 8 year old who is that clueless about the OP not wanting her to accost her.

Honestly, I'd cut her off before she could start - with "Hi Junie! Pretty blue top you have there! Hey, I wanted to let you know that I like to see you and hear how your new puppy is but I don't want to hold hands. I need to keep a good hold on my dog's leash. Ok? So what are you working on in 3rd grade this week?" as you continue walking along.

But I'd be annoyed that I had to do the mom's job. And I feel sorry for that girl who is going to be unliked in most social situations - kids and adults alike - if mom/dad don't teach her how to respect boundaries.

[baltic_ballet]

The only thing I can think of for you to try is crossing your arms and tucking your hands under so she can't grab them and ask her not to touch you.

[One_Girl]

Originally Posted by Kirsten

I have to second a pp that not hugging your students is very sad to me. My early elementary teachers hugged me. My daughters' preschool and early elementary teachers hug/hugged them - even dd1's 6'6" male 2nd and 3rd grade teacher, who is now my dd3's 1st grade teacher. When I first met him, the new principal told the PTA meeting that teachers were not to touch or hug students. I was horrified, and went directly to him after the meeting. I told him he had my permission to touch or hug my child is she was sad or proud or whatever reasonable situation that called for it. A pat on the shoulder or a hug is fine with me. I told him I'd sign something for him, but he said it wasn't necessary.

I think it depends on the age/grade to some extent, but although older kids may not need a hug as much or as often, they still do now and then. At any age, for some kids, a kind word, a smile, a compliment, or yes even a hug may be crucial for that child on that day.

I do agree that this girl's behavior (in the OP) is a sign of immaturity, and a way to force attention to be paid to the child.


It depends on how old your dd is - I wouldn't consider it emotional immaturity for a 4 year old. An 8 year old - definitely. As a child and as an adult, I love to hug people too - but being aware doesn't just happen after; it should happen before. Stopping when asked to stop is good, but better to understand that she doesn't get to hug and/or hold hands with anyone she encounters. Mom and dad - yes, probably anytime other than sickness or in the middle of something that precludes it. Gramma, auntie, best friend's mom, family friend who lives across the street - probably most of the time but don't go overboard with it. Everyone else - wait and see.

And I think it is the job of the parent(s) to teach her who she can hug/hold hands with and who she can't. To hug or hold hands for a short while then give the person some space. Even role play reactions - facial expressions and body language for example.

I would assume the girl's mother isn't teaching her appropriately because 1) the 8 year old is still doing it, and 2) mom's response to about taking out a pregnant lady and spilling a drink on another person was "be more careful around pregnant ladies". It should have been "honey, don't grab people's hands when they don't know you are there - she almost fell!" That isn't self-esteem damaging - it is self-esteem damaging to let a kid continue in a behavior that makes people want to avoid her, and the girl doesn't know why. THAT is damaging to her. Explaining social graces isn't.

And crossing the street isn't going to deter an 8 year old who is that clueless about the OP not wanting her to accost her.

Honestly, I'd cut her off before she could start - with "Hi Junie! Pretty blue top you have there! Hey, I wanted to let you know that I like to see you and hear how your new puppy is but I don't want to hold hands. I need to keep a good hold on my dog's leash. Ok? So what are you working on in 3rd grade this week?" as you continue walking along.

But I'd be annoyed that I had to do the mom's job. And I feel sorry for that girl who is going to be unliked in most social situations - kids and adults alike - if mom/dad don't teach her how to respect boundaries.

Social graces depend on where you live and what the community around you is like. I can't even tally up the number of times I have had people undermine me when my dd was little and gave them a hug and that has made it harder to teach her who it is okay to hug. The community of people we hang out with is a very huggy community and that also makes it hard because she assumes that everyone must be like the people we hang out with. Kids don't automatically switch gears, it isn't uncommon for a child to think that because they like something and everyone they knows likes something then the whole world must be the same. And when you have people undermining you and telling your child they are fine when you tell them to stop it makes it really hard to have any credibility with your child, especially when you are trying to tell them to go against their nature. My dd thought that I was just being mean and not letting her be herself for a long time, she still does when I tell her not to talk to other people at the restaurant and they tell her it is fine. It is very hard to counteract that when you have a child who is wired to want affection, conversation, and attention more than shy children tend to. Everyone is free to assume the worst, and usually we do when a child isn't acting just like our children act or living up to our idea of what a child of a certain age should be doing, but I think it is possible that there are other factors at work.

[Kailey's mom]

aww, she likes you. I wouldnt' say anything to her that you wouldn't say to your (for example 8 y/o dd) Sounds like a very loving child. Kids seem to always want to hold my hand, or pretend I'm a toy to climb on It doens't bother me because I know they are kids. Love them.

[bebebradford]

Op.. I don't blame you. You probably agree that it's not so much the child, but the MOTHER allowing this to happen. I have really big personal space issues( I wasnt' abused/etc) , but I don't like to be touched,hugged,etc. I mean, I make exceptions for my kids.. but that's about it. I'd try to stay away from the child, and if it continues tell the mother she is going to HAVE to make the child behave.

[mistymama]

Originally Posted by Jenifer76

The only kids I know who would do that are my son and his friend -- both have autism and lack understanding of personal space. Both are 8 years old. I work hard with my son to make him understand personal space and why he can't just hang on to everyone. His radar is random too -- I never know what makes him like one person over another. I am not implying that the child in this scenario has autism - just relating my experience. Hopefully her Mom has a talk with her about it. I am a bit sensory defensive so I don't like anyone hanging on me.

My son has Aspergers and we also had to work on the whole personal space thing. While he's very sensory defensive (and so am I!) he would at the same time not respect other people's space when he was excited. But that was a few years ago, and he's MUCH better now.

One of ds's good friends is also Autistic and he's a very affectionate child. But even as severe as he is - he does listen when you tell him to please not do something - he's almost 9.

This is probably more of an issue of the girl's Mom not being sure how to handle it.

OP, hope you can find a solution that works for you and does not hurt the little girl's feelings.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

aww, she likes you. I wouldnt' say anything to her that you wouldn't say to your (for example 8 y/o dd) Sounds like a very loving child. Kids seem to always want to hold my hand, or pretend I'm a toy to climb on It doens't bother me because I know they are kids. Love them.

And that's fine for you. The OP's point is that she *doesn't* like random people to hold her hand.

I've been around children like that, and I've just had to flat out say "I don't want to hold your hand." The other choice is dreading seeing them coming or trying to avoid them, but in a condo community, that can be difficult.

[VisionaryMom]

Originally Posted by One_Girl

Kids don't automatically switch gears, it isn't uncommon for a child to think that because they like something and everyone they knows likes something then the whole world must be the same.

I get what you're saying, but this seems to be an on-going thing. The op said she sees them several times a month. If you see someone at minimum once a week, you should be able to understand that they don't want to be touched.

OP, my husband seems to be the one who attracts the affections of people. Everyone loves him (except my mother ), and he's had to learn to look for signs to detour them before they start, even if it means being otherwise pre-occupied. Of course you already are holding the dog's leash, but maybe you could take a water bottle, too, so there's no free hand to grab.

[lonegirl]

Originally Posted by Catubodua

.

it would be next to impossible to speak to the mom without the child being there. i've never run into them except when they are outside playing / walking as a family. i suppose i could do a bunch of asking around to try to figure out their name or phone number, but it seems a stretch to do so. i'm really hoping that mom discusses the incident with her again to reinforce how not to do that to people (not just pregnant ladies!).

Why not ask the child. Say you'd like to talk to her mom and could she take you to their unit? Then go and ask if you can have a word with her. Explain that while you like her daughter and think it is sweet that she has attached herself to you that you need her not to hang all over you. Explain that it is not just because you are pregnant but that in general you don't want children clinging to you. If the child happens to be with her when you talk to the mom....that is ok because you can explain it to both of them that you appreciate the affection but it can not be shown by hanging on you. She is not a baby and you aren't being mean/rude by explaining this.

[Kailey's mom]

If this is really a big problem... talk to her mom, but please dont' do it in the presense of this 8 y/o girl. Who knows how she'll be effected emotionally. I don't think this is a lack of parenting situation btw.

[kathteach]

Can I ask why a high-five is not a good solution? Is even that much physical contact not okay with you, or is it that at this point you just don't even want to acknowledge her by any communication physical or otherwise?

My son is autistic and can do some age-inappropriate things too, and I can tell you when he grabs me and tries to climb on me or crash into me there are times when it invades my physical space and just drives me crazy, so I know that feeling. At times he's even unintentionally hurt me or his brother. I just try to help him express himself in a different way or have him get out his sensory needs in other ways.

I kind of feel sad that there is another human being trying to connect with you and she won't be met in the middle or have an adult try to work with her to communicate in a way that feels good for both adult and child.

When I became a mom I kind of "lost" my body in that it became my child's and it was not my own anymore. I can't explain it, it sounds weird....I think you will go through it too and maybe see the little girl's side, or see her in a different light.

Hope things work out for you and for the little girl.

[Catubodua]

Originally Posted by kathteach

Can I ask why a high-five is not a good solution? Is even that much physical contact not okay with you, or is it that at this point you just don't even want to acknowledge her by any communication physical or otherwise?

i guess in my mind it's going to be a give an inch, she'll take a mile problem if i do that. i don't want to touch her, don't want her touching me, so even though a high five wouldn't bother me, i don't want to send the message that i didn't mean what i said when i told her at the party she had to stop. i can just see the behavior creeping back to where it was.

i understand that many of the moms here are sad on her behalf, but i can't change the way i feel about strangers touching me. and, she is a stranger, and will remain so. as i said earlier, i see them outside about once a week / few times a month (although it does go up a bit once the nice weather hits) and while i don't mind saying hello or having a quick chat as i walk by, these folks aren't going to become our friends. they will remain just neighbors who we know casually.

and, i know it sounds harsh, but it's her mom's job to help her in these social situations, and it's like she's not doing anything about it. i've expressed my need to have her stop grabbing my hands, but child persists. mom has been two or three feet away each time (except at the party where mom was probably 10 feet away) and will say "oh, stop pestering her" when she sees me trying to get my hands back but doesn't do anything else. how i wish mom would do something low key to correct it - as in, take her daughter's hands herself when she sees us coming so that she's kind of heading it off. or something like make simple, quick statement, "remember to leave Mrs X's hands alone, she needs them for her dog" before their family gets near us.

if it had happened one time and then she stopped, i wouldn't have given it a second thought. but repeatedly being touched by someone you don't want to touch you, even after they are told to stop pushes me over the edge into a place where, no, i really don't want anything to do with her.

while we can all do our part as parents to help children (not just ours) figure things out, this mom has had multiple opportunities to correct her daughter or help her understand the situation better and she doesn't seem to be doing that which brings my annoyance level even higher. so rather than me take this on as a challenge, i think it's best to disengage completely - wave as i go by or call good afternoon and keep walking kind of thing - rather than try to "fix" it with her and her mom and possibly really cause hurt feelings with the child. so far, i don't think the little girl sensed anything "wrong" since she still liked to run over to me and try to interact despite me telling her to stop grabbing my hands. although i haven't seen them in the week or so since the party, so that may have changed. i guess i'll see when i encounter them next.

again, i really appreciate the different perspectives. i don't have any interactions with that age group beyond my niece whom i adore and who can use me as a jungle gym and where i welcome hugging and / or hand holding anytime.

[Evan&Anna's_Mom]

I completely understand where you are coming from. I am not a touchy person either and this would drive me nuts. There are times when I get frustrated with the way my own kids are all over me, let alone a neighbor child. And yes, her mother should be addressing this situation. But since she isn't, and doesn't appear likely to, then you are going to need to take some steps to address things yourself. The obvious first step is to avoid the situation when possible, but I agree you should have to do that. If you see her coming, can you place your hands where they can't be reached -- holding the stroller handles or dog leash, for example? Orr even in your pockets. If she still tries for your hands (at which point we've reached the "something is off point, IMHO"), then I think you are perfectly OK to say, sternly, "Please do not touch me" and take a step backwards. Put a stroller or bag (or dog) between yourself and this child if necessary. If she grabs your legs, say "Please get off of me" and if necessary, physically remove her.

If you need to do this, you should also address the mother very directly, "Please help X remove herself from me" or even "Please come take X's hands so she cannot climb on me". You have tried being polite and vague, it seems. Now you need to be direct and protect yourself.

If she were 2, I would handle it very different. But this child is 8. And really, if she does this to everyone she is putting herself in danger and really needs to stop.

Having said all of that, I have a 7 YO who climbs on several specific people, despite my admonishments to her to stop. While these are family friends that seem to be OK with it, I realize I probably need stronger measures to help her control herself in these situations.

[MammaG]

In our house we have a rule about touching; you ASK before you touch, all the time.

Of course my kids still come up and fling themselves on me, but as a rule they know that they need to ask one another or anyone else before touching. This helps my kids try to engage with a person before they interact physically and gives them a fighting chance to be able to act with each individual's comfort in mind. I've been extending this rule with kids they play with too, especially with H1N1 season going and a newborn in the house.

Do you think you could tell this girl (and others) that your family has a rule that you must ask before touching and then enforce that rule. We all teach this skill to our kids with regard to dogs (you have to ask permission first, both of your mother and the dog's owner), why not people too? In fact, does this girl seem to know the rules about dogs?

I would be angry if my 5.5 year old made such a misstep at a party, much less an 8 year old. A child of that age certainly can judge the consequenses of her actions (and just the interruption of adults talking is inexcusable, never mind the grabbing) and very most certainly can apologise profusely if it was genuinely a mistake, even if her mother hasn't specifically taught her this skill...she doesn't live in a vaccuum. OP, as I understand it, you raised your voice in anger, surprise and concern for your baby. Totally understandable and appropriate in my mind. I also hear that yelling isn't how you want to communicate with this youngster regularly, so I do hope you find an alternative that works. Maybe being strongly rebuked will finally have driven the message home to her and if not, I'd bring the behavior up with her mother even if it means going out of your way a bit...as pp said, it's a vaulauble safety skill for children to be aware of appropriate physical interactions with others.

That said, I also think that you do need to find a way to make sure that your instinctive and appropriate reaction didn't really hurt her feelings. I'd personally reach out next time you see her and ask if she remembers the incident, how she feels about it and if she understands your boundaries now and why you yelled at her.

[childsplay]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

aww, she likes you. I wouldnt' say anything to her that you wouldn't say to your (for example 8 y/o dd) Sounds like a very loving child. Kids seem to always want to hold my hand, or pretend I'm a toy to climb on It doens't bother me because I know they are kids. Love them.

I agree with most of this and just wanted to barge in and ad a couple things... ( ? )
Often little girls (or ones I've been around anyay) can get almost infatuated with a grown up lady. Almost in awe of her I guess is the best way to describe it. Maybe the OP has something about her that just fascinates this L/O ? Nice shiny hair that may be quite different than anyone in her family, a kind soft voice, pretty clothes, a kind manner, or a baby in her belly?
She probably just wants attention and is doing annoying, show offy things to get it.
OP, could you maybe find a distraction for her? What I mean is, get her attention before she grabs you and ask her to (for example) tell you about her day at school, or ask her if she has any pets, what are their names, etc, ask her where did she get the pretty barrette/shirt/shoes/whatever. When's her birthday? Is she having a party? Who's her best friend? Just easy stuff that will get her talking and most importantly it's all about her.
If she still tries to grab onto you I'd just say, hey, I don't like that, please don't do it again. Then fire another question at her or tell her something interesting about yourself (like guess what my favorite show was when I was your age....)
Also, she may be curious aout the baby you're carrying, maybe ask her if she has a baby brother or sister?
After a few minutes simply say thanks so much for coming to talk to me, come visit again soon. Or something like that.
I can clearly remember being that age and just being absolutely infatuated with grown up ladies, they were so glamorous. So I've kind of got a soft spot for these funny little girls who appear from time to time trying to climb up my arms, hug me, and just totally show off and make nuisances of themselves......and I'm not glamorous by any means : )

[noobmom]

I'm surprised at so many people referring to an 8 yo girl as a "little kid". The 8 year olds I know are BIG and could easy take down an unsuspecting pregnant woman.

OP, I sympathize with you and I wish I had some good advice. Maybe the next time she grabs your hands when you're walking the dog you could say, "Oh, don't touch my hands I just picked up dog poop!"? Either way, I think you're entirely within your rights!