Another SIDS death "not" attributed to vaccines

[Marnica]

http://7thspace.com/headlines/332501...estigated.html

The boy received the second dose of both Diphtheria, Tetanus, acellular Pertussis and Inactivated Poliovirus Vaccine (DTaP-IPV Vaccine) and pneumococcal conjugate vaccines at Lek Yuen Maternal and Child Health Centre yesterday (January 25) morning.

The vaccines are not known to be cause sudden death

yes...it is a big old co-inky dinky isn't it??

[MommytoB]

dying after the vax and it's like sheesh why can't people admit yes that baby did die from that vax doesn't mean everyone is going to die from Vaxes or get reactions but all they have to do is tell the truth . Because they list death risk in vax area tooo besides .

[Mosaic]

Just a friendly reminder that per our user agreement, news and current events discussions need to focus on general topics (e.g., connection of vaccination and sudden death) and NOT about individual cases.

[MamaMelis]

*censored*

[Emmeline II]

Originally Posted by MamaMelis

Are you literally diagnosing a cause of death in a baby you do not know from an article that you read in a newspaper?

Amazing.

I believe she is implying that vaccines are routinely ignored as the cause of harm.

If someone is prescribed a drug, then develops hives a couple of days later, a doctor would have no problem identifying a connection between the two.

If someone vaccinates a child who dies the next day, the "officials" will invariably say that though they do not know the cause of death, vaccines are most definitely NOT the cause, or that vaccines are not known to provoke such a reaction.

There are many people here who have been told variations of the above when they report post vaccination reactions.

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by Emmeline II

I believe she is implying that vaccines are routinely ignored as the cause of harm.

If someone is prescribed a drug, then develops hives a couple of days later, a doctor would have no problem identifying a connection between the two.

If someone vaccinates a child who dies the next day, the "officials" will invariably say that though they do not know the cause of death, vaccines are most definitely NOT the cause, or that vaccines are not known to provoke such a reaction.

There are many people here who have been told variations of the above when they report post vaccination reactions.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[carmel23]

I think that Dr. Sears has an interesting point about this when he discusses one patient that had a seizure right *before* he was going to give him a vaccination. What if the seizure occurred immediately *after* administering the vaccine? Would we all say that the vaccine *caused* the seizure?

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by carmel23

I think that Dr. Sears has an interesting point about this when he discusses one patient that had a seizure right *before* he was going to give him a vaccination. What if the seizure occurred immediately *after* administering the vaccine? Would we all say that the vaccine *caused* the seizure?

Good point, I problably would have if it was my dd's first seizure ever.

[carmel23]

But the OP does have an interesting point about the strangeness of the article, its like "pay no attention to the man behind the curtain," well then of course you are curious about the man behind the curtain... or "don't think of a pink elephant."


What do you think of?

I wonder if they offered that he co-slept, "but co-sleeping isn't the cause of death." or his mom drank a beer, or some other detail in the story, merely suggestion it-- in such a brief article where there is very little information about the baby give-- gives it an importance... the author thought that this was remarkable.

[MyLilPwny]

Its because vaccines have killed and harmed millions of people (I actually calculated the figures for this before in another thread in this forum) and the media has to hide that vaccines kill people because if too many people find out, then it will become very difficult to sell vaccines.

[Deborah]

What I've always found interesting about the Dr. Sears story:

What if he had given the baby the vaccine? Would the seizure have occurred in exactly the same way? Since certain vaccines are contraindicated for children with seizure disorders, if a child was on the verge of a seizure and was then given a vaccne that has that contraindication, it seems likely that the outcome would be more severe seizure at the least or some other problems.

I'm reading the sub-text as: parents blame vaccines for completely unrelated stuff. But I don't think it works that way.

I'll give another example. A baby goes in who is slightly ill, is given a complete load of vaccines and then gets really, really, ill. The doctor says that the child caught a virus at the office and it turned bad because the kid was already a little bit sick. The vaccines had nothing to do with it. So, if a parent connected the child's severe illness with the vaccines, were they imagining things, or not?

Or another:

A child gets her vaccines, becomes extremely ill, and is later diagnosed with a hereditary problem, unrelated to the vaccines. But the degree of severity of the illness may have, indeed, been related to the vaccines. Because even with hereditary conditions there can be a range of severity.

Do you see what I'm trying to get at?

[Kailey's mom]

Originally Posted by ThereseReich

Its because vaccines have killed and harmed millions of people (I actually calculated the figures for this before in another thread in this forum) and the media has to hide that vaccines kill people because if too many people find out, then it will become very difficult to sell vaccines.

I wish more than anything that one of the "big nationwide" newpapers would just do a factual story..not to scare people, but to open their eyes, and let them know that vaccines are not 100 percent safe, and that there are side effects more than just redness at the injection site. Many people that I personally know, have had neurological differences after vaccines, and did not even know to report that this started after the flu vaccine. They just went into the office and reported a sudden onset of neurological problems. It's really sad

[majormajor]

Originally Posted by Kailey's mom

I wish more than anything that one of the "big nationwide" newpapers would just do a factual story..not to scare people, but to open their eyes, and let them know that vaccines are not 100 percent safe, and that there are side effects more than just redness at the injection site.

i'm a science journalist and i've been reading up on vaccines for years now, with an eye towards focusing on children's health topics once i get back to writing.
i'm actually very satisfied with the risk/benefit ratio of most vaccines, expecially the DTaP. while there are risks that probably aren't on the forefront of the general public's mind, a story presenting only the risks would be unjustified, IMO.

as far as SIDS and vaccines, you have to remember that there are 3 or 4 days upon which a typical child gets vaccinated in his first 6 months of life. most SIDS occurs within the first 6 months, with the instance peaking at about 2 months of age. with 2,500 cases of SIDS per year in this country, you can easily expect to see about 50 cases per year of kids who die of SIDS on the day that they were vaccinated; maybe 350 within a week of vaccination. each year! that's why anecdotes here can't prove anything.

[amnesiac]

I have removed a number of posts from this thread which were either in violation of our UA/Vax forum guidelines or were responses to such posts. Any further issues will result in closure or removal of this discussion from the board.

Please remember to post in a respectful manner and refrain from posting to take direct issue with another member's behavior. If you feel someone has behaved inappropriately, please PM a moderator or click the report button rather than posting to the thread.

If you have any questions or concerns please feel free to PM either me or Mosaic at any time.

[ema-adama]

I have to agree with carmel23, the mention in the article only opens the issue for debate. Why was the infants food, sleeping arrangement, care environment etc not mentioned.

What I find very frustrating in these discussions is that even if vaccines were found to have been the cause of SIDS for some children, they are obvisouly not killing the vast majority of babies. I honestly do not understand why there is a reluctance to investigate how and if vaccines can cause such a horric outcome in a very small number of babies.

I find if hard to understand the lack of curiosity on the potential link between vaccines and SIDS. Ignoring the issue by saying that correlation does not equal causation is the lazy way out and does not address the question with any real evidence from studies done on babies.

Maybe in a percentage of SIDS cases there is a connection. Maybe not. But it is frustrating to be told it CANNOT be vaccines, we just don't know what it is.

[Deborah]

Yes, that sort of silly denial is guaranteed to lower trust in vaccines. Ditto with large epidemiological studies done from the medical equivalent of 30,000 feet.

[Gladiolus]

Originally Posted by ema-adama

But it is frustrating to be told it CANNOT be vaccines, we just don't know what it is.

This statement always bothers me... if they don't know what it is how can they rule out that it wasn't a vaccine? If they don't know then they don't know.
It did perk my interest that this wasn't in the USA. It seems like there is denial across the board with admitting the possibility that vaccines damage some (although, I'm not saying this SIDS case absolutely is attributed to vaxes).

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Gladiolus

This statement always bothers me... if they don't know what it is how can they rule out that it wasn't a vaccine? If they don't know then they don't know.
It did perk my interest that this wasn't in the USA. It seems like there is denial across the board with admitting the possibility that vaccines damage some (although, I'm not saying this SIDS case absolutely is attributed to vaxes).

Yes to this. This is what I was attempting (apparently quite poorly) to convey in my original post. To declare the cause of death "unknown" and then declare it to be NOT caused by something (vaccines or anything else) flies in the face of logic IMO.


ema-adama - I believe the reluctance to investigate how and if vaccines can cause such a horric outcome in a very small number of babies is there because there is far too much at stake. I think public health officials believe that everyone will get scared and start refusing that vaccines and then there will be a resurrgence of disease (whether this is the case or not is a whole other topic!!). The pharmaceutical companies also have a great deal to lose profit wise and the regulatory government agencies are largely funded by big pharma. and around and around we go. I think, however, that their current strategy of denial is not working for them either. People like us here on MDC know their logic is flawed and this makes us all the more suspicious.

[Deborah]

Originally Posted by majormajor

i'm a science journalist and i've been reading up on vaccines for years now, with an eye towards focusing on children's health topics once i get back to writing.
i'm actually very satisfied with the risk/benefit ratio of most vaccines, expecially the DTaP. while there are risks that probably aren't on the forefront of the general public's mind, a story presenting only the risks would be unjustified, IMO.

as far as SIDS and vaccines, you have to remember that there are 3 or 4 days upon which a typical child gets vaccinated in his first 6 months of life. most SIDS occurs within the first 6 months, with the instance peaking at about 2 months of age. with 2,500 cases of SIDS per year in this country, you can easily expect to see about 50 cases per year of kids who die of SIDS on the day that they were vaccinated; maybe 350 within a week of vaccination. each year! that's why anecdotes here can't prove anything.

Unless you have pre-vaccine numbers on the cases of SIDS and the pattern of occurrence this data is meaningless. A comparison of the rate of SIDS in unvaxed babies is the only way to see if there is a connection or not.

Background rates that include the intervention are not background rates.

[majormajor]

but there has been a good deal of research into SIDS and vaccination. you can take issue with the research that has been done, but you can't say that no one has looked into it.