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WWYD? Buying a home

post #1 of 36
Thread Starter 
Currently, I live in a 2 bedroom apartment above a bar in a not so awesome neighborhood (not dangerous, just not great - the bar is fine though - we are friendly with the owners, bartenders and bouncers). DP and I do not live together, he owns a house a few minutes away - in a much worse neighborhood, terrible school district.

Baby #4 will be here soon (8 weeks!) and DP is planning to purchase a home for us.


My ideal home? 4 bedrooms (we really need an office, as DP works from home almost everyday), more than one bathroom, land, a garage (DP kinda needs a workshop - for his own sanity), no neighbors or at least not on top of each other

DP has $40K to put down. He has another $15 set aside. He is a tenured prof, no worries about losing his job. He is very frugal. He outright owns two homes already (one is a rental, he is looking to sell for around $70K if he can). He has been a bachelor for years - and we frequently joke that his house is the 'russian army barraks' or 'Paperstreet Soap Company' (Fight Club reference). It's very spartan, and needs a lot of work - IE: the hardwood floors NEED refinishing, all the walls need painting. He doesn't care to do the work on the house he lives in, but he would do it for a house I lived in.

I would be moving no sooner than June - With a new baby, it would be a real challenge for me to get the kids too and from school each day if I moved before that - we won't change districts this school year.

I have two homes in mind. Both homes are in the same awesome school district. Neither come with appliances. Both have really nice views.



Home #1: Awesome location - a 15-20 min commute to work (current commute....5 minutes) , 3.36 acres, very close to my family. The house is TINY! I have a feeling it's smaller than my apartment - maybe 1000 sq ft. It needs a new kitchen and bathroom to be functional. The bathroom is impossibly small - literally as wide as a tub, with the toilet and sink almost touching the tub. There is no possible way to expand the bathroom without removing the 3rd bedroom. There are no closets, no linen closet, no storage in the bathroom. The bedrooms are very small, adding closets is out of the question. There is a great garage, and the possibility of putting on an addition - but we can't do that right now. The house needs far too much work. The attic/basement spaces cannot be converted to additional living space. It's the last tiny house (in an area of tiny houses) before a string of mansions. There is a possibility that sometime soon there will be an offer for a gas lease on the property (Marcellus Shale thing -- it's happening right in the neighborhood). This could be good, or bad. Good - the income potential. Bad - potential environmental damage. We may not have an option regarding the lease (by law, if the owners of 60% of the land in a 'block' sign the leases, the gas ppl can drill and give you the minimum payment). The house has potential, but it's very small, and we were really hoping for more space. Oh, and DP won't be living with me. Not yet. We aren't ready for that. We both want/need our own space. If we choose this house, we will lose the option of DP moving in at some point. It's just too small. For sale by owner : 65,000 it needs a minimum of 5,000 in materials to be livable. It may need a new roof also - not sure. My father is a home builder and willing to do the work for us. I don't mind doing the work either, and would like to do things 'my way'.


Home #2: 4 bedrooms, 1.25 acres, BEAUTIFUL! Brand new kitchen, 1.5 baths, very clean - sparkly even. 2200 sq ft, unfinished basement, no garage. Move in ready. Nothing needs to be done. The sellers dropped the asking price $10K yesterday to 100K. The downside...it's pretty far out in the country. I grew up in that area, just not that far out - commute is 25-30 minutes. 15 minutes minimum to the grocery store. No cable service (not that we need it - use it for the internet, it's just that is how far out the place is). The option of DP and I living together is much more reasonable in this house - we would have the space we need for it to happen. DP may or may not go for it - given the price, location. Originally he set my home budget at $80K, they are all fixer-uppers for that price or tiny or in bad areas/school districts. Believe it or not - the taxes on this house are about half of the taxes for home #1. The big issue here is how far out in the 'country' this house is - up and down steep hills in the winter/snow/ice, plus it's more expensive. But it is a beautiful home, and an excellent price. It's almost exactly what I would like in a home.


The homes are about 'equal' to me. I'm very much torn. Either house saves me $$ - no more rent, DP is paying/carrying the mortgage/taxes/ins.

Which home would you choose?
post #2 of 36
I'd kinda hang out for option #3 since you have a few months. Or is that entirely too evil? I know some folks have that "this is it and only it" feeling about a house, but I'm more of the "eh, it's a house, there's always going to be something out there" camp. Every house is going to have it's own quirky set of imperfections.

Definitely not #1 - way too small unless it's just laid out insanely smart. And doing an addition... I know I'm not cut out for that kind of thing, but that's just me and hubby and our DIY-ness.

But the commute with #2 would also royally suck. Especially if/when you have to take kids to school yourself, or when gas is $7-$10gallon and so on.

And neither of them has a shop, correct? Or would you try to turn the garage of #1 into just storage or another bedroom or something?
post #3 of 36
I vote for option #3 as well. If you have a few months and aren't in a rush wait for the perfect house to come up for sale then jump on it!

#1 is going to be too small for you and it doesn't sound like it's exactly what you want.

The drive on #2 would scare me. We made that mistake and ended up selling and moving closer after only 2 years in the house because the commute just got too tough.

good luck!
post #4 of 36
Gas drilling & your DP not being able to move in if/when you want both turned me off of option #1. Those are both pretty big things.

Option #2 resonated with me - we live rurally, and bought a house closer to town (5 miles to grocery store) last year. We have friends who have bigger houses/more land and live further out, but when I was talking to them recently, they really regretted that it was a 30-45 minute drive in the winter (20-25 minutes in the summer) to get their kids to school, go grocery shopping, etc. They've started planning their trips each week, and the default is staying home. It's tough when they have 3 kids and each of them plays a sport "in town", etc. -they are in their car all the time. I am glad we decided to buy closer to town, even though we have a smaller house and no land.

Is there an Option #3? ((It's MDC ... there's always an "other" in these sorts of polls! ))
post #5 of 36
I don't think you sound ready to buy a house together. It sounds like you have done zero merging of finances to date and haven't lived together.

That fact that you state that him purchasing a house will save you rent money seems sort of off to me. If I was DP it would make me feel less like a DP and more like a meal ticket. The fact that he only wants to spend 80 grand despite that won't yield you house in an acceptabile school district also seems off to since you are going to have kids of K-12 age for the next 20 years or so. He'd rather have three little houses than one nicer house that would cost less than the three together that would work for all family members?

The more I write the more concerns I see.

To me the most logical (but certianly not the only way) would be for DP to sell both of his current houses and buy a third house in a proceeds (picked out together). Given that there are two house, they both need work, and that real estate sometimes even well priced real estate moves slowly. I think I'd stay put in my current apartment for now.
post #6 of 36
Sounds like you live in the same area as we do! We're also currently looking for a house, so here's my take:

Don't buy house #1. Its too much work, and the house is too small. Our house is about 1100 sq ft with 4 bedrooms (2 up, 2 down) and 1 bathroom. We have 2 preschool kids, and its a tight squeeze. (Maybe its because this house is laid out poorly?) I couldn't imagine 4 kids in this space. Not to mention, 4 people using a small bathroom in the morning to get ready is not fun. I think that lack of closets (especially a linen closet) will drive you nuts. You'll have *stuff* just everywhere, since you'll have a difficult time finding a safe place for it. Oh, and that amount of work, the house could just become a money pit. Even if your dad will do the work for free, materials can get expensive.

The 2nd house sounds nice, but I'd also keep looking. Are you working with a real estate agent? Maybe tell the agent to keep you updated on the status of that house (ie, if someone is going to make an offer on it- but then you might get into a bidding war, but you might have an edge cause you dont have a house to sell).

For this area and everything you want, your budget seems a bit low. It seems like we've been looking for most of the same things that you are. A lot of houses in that price range are as you described- need a LOT of work, small, not a lot of land, iffy area or bad school district, are way out in the boonies (a 35-40 min drive for him to go to work), etc. You may have to make a list of your "wants" in a house and put them in order of importance. It seems like there's a lot of gorgeous homes that are a bit "out there" in the country. I hope that I'm not sounding too harsh, since this is what dh and I have discussed, and we've have to give ourselves a reality check and change our standards a bit.

Also, on the subject of property taxes, they can vary a LOT from town to town (and even in different areas of the same town, like if there are "village" taxes in 1 part of the town but not in another). For example, a house in "M" is assessed for $147,000 (but asking price is about $130k), and the taxes are $6,000. In town "L" another house is assessed at $145,000 (asking price is $120k), and the taxes are $3700. The house in "M" has village taxes while "L" doesn't. I'm pretty sure that both include the basic STAR tax exemption.

The taxes that realtors put in the listings are not always accurate, and this drives me nuts. Sometimes the house is owned by an older person, so they will have the Senior STAR exemption along with a veterans' exemption. As a result, taxes will be significantly lower than what they would be for you. (We looked at a house where the owners were paying $1500 or so in taxes, but they were actually over $4,000 because of all of the exemptions.) You can look at the county's "real property tax" part of their website to see what exemptions the owners have. You can also call the town assessor and ask what the actual taxes are on the house and what they would be if you paid x amount of money for the house.

I was told that the spring market in our area starts between Feb 15th and March 1st. Spring buyers start to come out, so sellers are encouraged to have their homes on the market at that time. Hopefully something that suits your needs will come on the market soon!
post #7 of 36
Stay away from option #1. I'm talking as someone who is currently sitting in a very similar house (half the rooms are bare studs and subflooring and the rest are just partway finished, the rooms are impossibly small and there is potential for an addition but no way could we afford it any time soon!!) I'm currently working on my laptop on a crib mattress on the floor of our way-too-tiny bedroom... no room for an office or a desktop computer. I thought I'd love to redo everything and do it "my way" but we've been here 3 years and the house still isn't even close to truly livable. It's a constant source of stress because every time I want to do something "fun" I think, oh we really need to finish the upstairs or tile the entryway etc. I was upstairs hammering & installing stuff while I was IN LABOR with DS!!!

OK that's my take on it. Option 2 sounds nice but the distance does sound pretty inconvenient, especially if you like/need to get out of the house a lot. I'd honestly wait a bit longer, if you're not moving anytime soon anyway I don't really see the rush to buy something that's not *perfect* for your situation. I rushed into buying this house kind of... and I honestly regret it frequently.
post #8 of 36
Home 2 or another option.

Home 1 is too small for six people. IMO.
post #9 of 36
I'd vote for #2 if there were no other options.
post #10 of 36
I agree to wait for option #3. House #1 sounds like a lot of work and a lot more than 5K in materials to fix up. House #2 is ok but the commute may be isolating for you, but only you can decide that.

I know this is none of my business, but just make sure you and the kids are protected in case something happens to your DP or things go south there.
post #11 of 36
I too vote for trying to find an Option 3.

The first one is too small unless you are ardent minimalists and can get away with converting the garage to DP living space.

The second one doesn't appeal to me because everything's all done and there's nothing left to tear into and leave your own mark on. (At least that is what I plan on doing when I finally get my first house.) How's the drive up/down to it been lately?
post #12 of 36
Neither, keep looking.
post #13 of 36
I agree: keep looking around for awhile. Option one sounds just terrible, and option two is pretty far away.
post #14 of 36
I love living rural!!! I love the space for my kiddos to play, I easily adapted to meal planning with groceries 20-30 min away. Do you have your own vehicle? Will you feel lonely? How do you feel about winter driving? Will you be able to afford good winter tires?
post #15 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lmonter View Post
I'd kinda hang out for option #3 since you have a few months. Or is that entirely too evil? I know some folks have that "this is it and only it" feeling about a house, but I'm more of the "eh, it's a house, there's always going to be something out there" camp. Every house is going to have it's own quirky set of imperfections.

Definitely not #1 - way too small unless it's just laid out insanely smart. And doing an addition... I know I'm not cut out for that kind of thing, but that's just me and hubby and our DIY-ness.

But the commute with #2 would also royally suck. Especially if/when you have to take kids to school yourself, or when gas is $7-$10gallon and so on.

And neither of them has a shop, correct? Or would you try to turn the garage of #1 into just storage or another bedroom or something?
Option #3 - Well, I've been looking since last August. There was one home I loved, but it was already pending sale when I found it.

My dad would do an addition, just not this year. Maybe next? He is a custom home builder, so it's not a big deal for him.

With Option #2 - The kids elementary school is fairly close, the middle school is a hike (it's a hike from house #1), The highschool is as close as the elementary school, just the opposite direction.
post #16 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulfaith View Post
Gas drilling & your DP not being able to move in if/when you want both turned me off of option #1. Those are both pretty big things.

Option #2 resonated with me - we live rurally, and bought a house closer to town (5 miles to grocery store) last year. We have friends who have bigger houses/more land and live further out, but when I was talking to them recently, they really regretted that it was a 30-45 minute drive in the winter (20-25 minutes in the summer) to get their kids to school, go grocery shopping, etc. They've started planning their trips each week, and the default is staying home. It's tough when they have 3 kids and each of them plays a sport "in town", etc. -they are in their car all the time. I am glad we decided to buy closer to town, even though we have a smaller house and no land.

Is there an Option #3? ((It's MDC ... there's always an "other" in these sorts of polls! ))
Option #3 is that I keep looking - I've been looking since August. It's not that there aren't homes for sale, they just aren't 'great homes' in my price range.

I do keep hearing the same things about a house that is so far out...It's 10 or 15 min to the gas station, grocery store etc.
post #17 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mnnice View Post
I don't think you sound ready to buy a house together. It sounds like you have done zero merging of finances to date and haven't lived together.

That fact that you state that him purchasing a house will save you rent money seems sort of off to me. If I was DP it would make me feel less like a DP and more like a meal ticket. The fact that he only wants to spend 80 grand despite that won't yield you house in an acceptabile school district also seems off to since you are going to have kids of K-12 age for the next 20 years or so. He'd rather have three little houses than one nicer house that would cost less than the three together that would work for all family members?

The more I write the more concerns I see.

To me the most logical (but certianly not the only way) would be for DP to sell both of his current houses and buy a third house in a proceeds (picked out together). Given that there are two house, they both need work, and that real estate sometimes even well priced real estate moves slowly. I think I'd stay put in my current apartment for now.

DP and I stay together every night (my place usually - he spends more time here than at his house) - but neither of us WANTS to live together right now. We have both been married before and been through hard divorces. I don't WANT to share my space with another adult. Neither of our current homes are acceptable for the other party to live in (his: bad neighborhood, mine: small apartment) I realize it's not a traditional living situation, but it does work well for both of us right now - neither of us has hard feelings about it. At some point we do plan to live together, neither of us is ready for it yet.


We won't ever merge finances completely. His last wife screwed him over royally - he supported her through college, then she took off. She remarried in another country before their divorce was final. DP and I work out who pays for what - and it (IMO) comes out pretty fairly. For example we have 4 shared vehicles and split other bills. (I take care of food, he takes care of cars, I pay for netflix, he pays for the newspaper). He is purchasing the house, because I'm not in a position to do so. He will pay the mortgage/taxes. I'll take care of the household expenses - groceries, utilities, minor repairs.

DP's rental home is going on the market, it could take years to sell around here though. His long-term tennants are moving out this summer and he doesn't want to be a landlord. He won't sell his house, it's been in his family for a long time. He is considering renting his side at some point (on half of the house is already rented) if we want to live together. I realize selling both his houses, then using the proceeds to buy a 3rd we both chose together is a very reasonable idea - it just isn't going to happen. He won't sell his house, and again, he is very frugal. If he had a million dollars sitting in the bank, he still wouldn't up his budget by much.

Again, I know it's not a traditional living situation. We've talked a lot about it over the last few years. We are at a point where we are both happy and comfortable with the course we are on.
post #18 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hopefulfaith View Post
Gas drilling & your DP not being able to move in if/when you want both turned me off of option #1. Those are both pretty big things.

I'm not sure how I feel about the gas drilling. It is a bit of a turn off - although in that particular neighborhood the 'drilling station' would be miles away. The upside is only financial. A gent with 90 acres near my parents house (10 minutes away from this house) is pulling in $15,000 a month right now, after an initial payout of $50,000 for his lease - he doesn't live on the property though.
post #19 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xmysticprincessx View Post
Sounds like you live in the same area as we do! We're also currently looking for a house, so here's my take:

Don't buy house #1. Its too much work, and the house is too small. Our house is about 1100 sq ft with 4 bedrooms (2 up, 2 down) and 1 bathroom. We have 2 preschool kids, and its a tight squeeze. (Maybe its because this house is laid out poorly?) I couldn't imagine 4 kids in this space. Not to mention, 4 people using a small bathroom in the morning to get ready is not fun. I think that lack of closets (especially a linen closet) will drive you nuts. You'll have *stuff* just everywhere, since you'll have a difficult time finding a safe place for it. Oh, and that amount of work, the house could just become a money pit. Even if your dad will do the work for free, materials can get expensive.

The 2nd house sounds nice, but I'd also keep looking. Are you working with a real estate agent? Maybe tell the agent to keep you updated on the status of that house (ie, if someone is going to make an offer on it- but then you might get into a bidding war, but you might have an edge cause you dont have a house to sell).

For this area and everything you want, your budget seems a bit low. It seems like we've been looking for most of the same things that you are. A lot of houses in that price range are as you described- need a LOT of work, small, not a lot of land, iffy area or bad school district, are way out in the boonies (a 35-40 min drive for him to go to work), etc. You may have to make a list of your "wants" in a house and put them in order of importance. It seems like there's a lot of gorgeous homes that are a bit "out there" in the country. I hope that I'm not sounding too harsh, since this is what dh and I have discussed, and we've have to give ourselves a reality check and change our standards a bit.

Also, on the subject of property taxes, they can vary a LOT from town to town (and even in different areas of the same town, like if there are "village" taxes in 1 part of the town but not in another). For example, a house in "M" is assessed for $147,000 (but asking price is about $130k), and the taxes are $6,000. In town "L" another house is assessed at $145,000 (asking price is $120k), and the taxes are $3700. The house in "M" has village taxes while "L" doesn't. I'm pretty sure that both include the basic STAR tax exemption.

The taxes that realtors put in the listings are not always accurate, and this drives me nuts. Sometimes the house is owned by an older person, so they will have the Senior STAR exemption along with a veterans' exemption. As a result, taxes will be significantly lower than what they would be for you. (We looked at a house where the owners were paying $1500 or so in taxes, but they were actually over $4,000 because of all of the exemptions.) You can look at the county's "real property tax" part of their website to see what exemptions the owners have. You can also call the town assessor and ask what the actual taxes are on the house and what they would be if you paid x amount of money for the house.

I was told that the spring market in our area starts between Feb 15th and March 1st. Spring buyers start to come out, so sellers are encouraged to have their homes on the market at that time. Hopefully something that suits your needs will come on the market soon!
Option #1: The lack of closets and the tiny bathroom do drive me nuts! I thought I had minimal closet space where I live now - I was wrong about that! Plus I'm used to a huge bathroom - double sinks, w/d in the bathroom (great idea btw if anyone is building...)

We haven't signed a contract with a real estate agent (sellers agent) but we are talking with the agent for Option #2. Option #1 is For Sale by Owner.

It does sound like we are in a similar position. I'm trying to stick to the budget (with a bit of leeway), because there will always be a nicer house that I would like better. I can compromise on the # of bedrooms, as long as there is a space for a home office. I can compromise on land...as long as there is a LARGE yard.

We have left messages trying to get accurate property tax info for house #1 - a senior/veteran was living there and his son (selling the home) isn't quite sure what he was paying anyway. I'll double check on property #2 also - I had assumed they were accurate, I didn't realize they would mislead you on something as straight forward as taxes on the listing. It is a higher taxed town that other areas, but it's a great school district.
post #20 of 36
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by crunchy_mommy View Post
Stay away from option #1. I'm talking as someone who is currently sitting in a very similar house (half the rooms are bare studs and subflooring and the rest are just partway finished, the rooms are impossibly small and there is potential for an addition but no way could we afford it any time soon!!) I'm currently working on my laptop on a crib mattress on the floor of our way-too-tiny bedroom... no room for an office or a desktop computer. I thought I'd love to redo everything and do it "my way" but we've been here 3 years and the house still isn't even close to truly livable. It's a constant source of stress because every time I want to do something "fun" I think, oh we really need to finish the upstairs or tile the entryway etc. I was upstairs hammering & installing stuff while I was IN LABOR with DS!!!

OK that's my take on it. Option 2 sounds nice but the distance does sound pretty inconvenient, especially if you like/need to get out of the house a lot. I'd honestly wait a bit longer, if you're not moving anytime soon anyway I don't really see the rush to buy something that's not *perfect* for your situation. I rushed into buying this house kind of... and I honestly regret it frequently.

I understand! Completely! I grew up with a dad who built houses, my mom basically lived the same way you are living now for the first few years of their marriage (with a baby too). In fact - their main bathroom has been unfinished for 14 years now. I wouldn't be moving into option #1 until it was livable (buy now, have a few months to get the work done....)


The distance on house #2 is the one factor that I don't like. I'm not sure if I would want to get out of the house everyday or not...I tend to stay home more in the winter (IE: didn't go out tues or wed this week), but otherwise I try to get out every single day - esp when I'm SAH. BUT that could be because we live in a small apartment with no yard and HAVE to get outside for our sanity.
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