Why is it ok to admit that animal vaccines may cause issues?

[KLM99]

I occasionally read "Animal Doctor," a syndicated column that appears in the newspaper. About four or five times now, the answer includes something similar to the following sentence:

"Obsessive dirt eating by dogs and cats can be a cardinal sign of anemia. In many cases, it's caused by an autoimmune disease that might have been triggered by vaccinations; or it might be hereditary."

I've also read a response about a dog with some kind of cancer and the answer asked the owner if the site of the cancer was where the dog had had it's vaccine.

Why is it ok to admit that vaccines may cause animals autoimmune disorders or cancers? But no one would ever say that a vaccine could possible have caused any issue in a child. And why would an animal be different from a child in this regard?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, I'm actually wondering.

[prothyraia]

Because if you were to sue someone because of your dog's health issues, you wouldn't get nearly as much money (if any) as you would if you were to successfully sue because of your child's (or your own) health issues.

[Marnica]

Beacuse there is much less at stake, both financially and ethically.

[Deborah]

However, it is careless of the vaccine defenders not to fight the animal vaccine questions, too. Because if someone finds out that their cat has cancer or an auto-immune disease due to a vaccine...are they going to have a really good feeling about getting their kid 8 or 9 vaccines at a time when they go to the doctor?

This is a major breech in the "vaccines are really, really safe" mantra.

Careless.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by Deborah

However, it is careless of the vaccine defenders not to fight the animal vaccine questions, too. Because if someone finds out that their cat has cancer or an auto-immune disease due to a vaccine...are they going to have a really good feeling about getting their kid 8 or 9 vaccines at a time when they go to the doctor?

This is a major breech in the "vaccines are really, really safe" mantra.

Careless.

I agree although there seems to be such a disconnect in terms of this. I know several families who have lost animals to vaccine reactions (both immediate and due to onset of cancer or other disease related to the vaccine). These people have young children and vaccinate on schedule. I even asked one woman once "doesn't it make you pause and think that maybe our kids are over vaccinated as well and all these vaccines may be harmful to our kids as they are to our animals? She didn't miss a beat and she said, no. That's ridiculous. If they were dangerous to children, doctors would not give them to children. I then said yes but Vets give them to animals and acknowledge that they can be harmful and vets are still in the business of helping animals. She looked at me like i had two heads.

[miriam]

I have read the vet's admonitions about vaccines. I understand that many vets do not give more than one vaccine at once because they know that it will make the animal sick and the animal will be back within the week.

I have also read somewhere that vets now give the animals the vaccines in the leg instead of the the back of the neck since they KNOW it can cause a cancerous tumor at the site of the injection. Which is why the injection is given in the leg since the leg can be amputated but the head, no.

[Deborah]

Well, I guess it is possible to avoid making obvious connections and some people will do so.

I still think that this is a gap in the "vaccines are wonderful" fence which will come back and bite the vax pushers, sooner or later. There is a limit to how dense even parents who are totally trusting can be. If their child gets sick following vaccines? If their child develops an auto-immune disease? At some point, the dots connect and then...

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by miriam

I have also read somewhere that vets now give the animals the vaccines in the leg instead of the the back of the neck since they KNOW it can cause a cancerous tumor at the site of the injection. Which is why the injection is given in the leg since the leg can be amputated but the head, no.

My cat died of cancer in the back of the neck. Eventually on his neck and back were a huge fluid filled sac full of tumors, at least 6 inches by 4 inches. The vet admitted it was due to the vaccine.

[jendodd]

very interesting thread that I'm going to file away for use in the future...

[Kailey's mom]

wow, I live under a rock. So they will admit that vaccines are harmful, or potentially harmful to animals, but not us . I'm subbing to show family. Thanks for bringing this topic up.

[ASusan]

My aunt shows dogs, breeds them, raises them...she says that dog owners and vets in her circles have known for years that there are problems with vaccines. She never thought about human vaccines until I had my son (she is elderly and childless). I don't think she knew how much the child schedule has increased in the past decades.

[lotus.blossom]

Are animal vaccines made the same way as human vaccines? With the same kind of ingredients? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

My dog reacts to shots so we are selective with him. And it very much affected our decision to research about and delay our childrens shots. Thanks to my dog for taking one for the team!

[cyberfish]

There is even a term for it when an animal has had more vaccines than its body can handle: vaccinosis. No such term exists for humans.

My mom lost a very sweet cat a number of years ago due to a cancerous tumor at the site of a vaccine injection. Interestingly, the cat had received the injection many years before. It lends credibility, for me, to the argument that just because a vaccine does not cause an immediate reaction does not mean it will never cause a reaction.

This cat died quite painfully and horribly, poor thing. I think it may be one reason my mom backs my decision to not vaccinate my child.

[Ruthla]

With the single exception of the rabies vaccine, an unvaccinated animal poses no threat to humans. So it's just not as "dangerous" to admit to vaccine dangers for dogs- if you don't vaccinate your dog, who really cares? Who does it affect?

But ZOMG if you don't vaccinate your child, then my child might get chicken pox from your child and my child could die!!!!!

[an_domhan]

Originally Posted by lotus.blossom

Are animal vaccines made the same way as human vaccines? With the same kind of ingredients? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

My dog reacts to shots so we are selective with him. And it very much affected our decision to research about and delay our childrens shots. Thanks to my dog for taking one for the team!

I tried to point this out on a very pro-vaccine platform, and was told not to compare animal regs to human regs. On a small level, they may be right as certain feed products etc... that comprise commercial feed start with items that are not fit for human consumption. So, in their eyes, it's not apples and apples regardless of the outcome. At least that is what I gathered.

[SunshineJ]

Originally Posted by lotus.blossom

Are animal vaccines made the same way as human vaccines? With the same kind of ingredients? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

I wouldn't see why not. Many of the prescriptions for animals are the same exact thing for humans, just labelled "not for human consumption". I'm not sure if this is so they can be less stringint on the manufacturing sanitation or if it's a liability thing or what, but a lot of times there's no difference. I know our dog is allergic to pork and we've been told for years to give him generic Benedryl. I've also been told to give a dog plain aspirin before, and was warned that a virus I had could possibly transfer to the dog, so it seems logical that there wouldn't need to be a huge distinction in the ingredients.

In the US at least we have a different set of rules and ethics we apply to pets vs humans. An obvious example of this is euthanasia - it's accepted and encouraged for pets in terminal and painful situations but illegal for humans (not arguing right or wrong, just an example of different rules). So I can see how people could compartmentalize that vax's for pets are a totally different subject than vax's for children. I disagree with it, but I can kind of see how it can happen.

I just started hearing about vacinosis within the past year and was floored. I've lost 3 cats in the past 3 years, and now wonder if any of it was caused by vaccines. The 7 yr old is questionable as she was almost dead when I found her and I'd been warned she may pass on early because of the damage done, so maybe they made her worse but I can't say for sure. My eldest cat died of cancer, but she was also 19 yrs old! If the vaxs did cause damage, it was a very slow moving kind. The middle cat though, I'm not so sure. He wasn't that old and ended up riddled with cancer. I've had cats all my life and never until recent years even heard of cats getting cancer, so I do wonder about that one.

[KLM99]

Originally Posted by lotus.blossom

Are animal vaccines made the same way as human vaccines? With the same kind of ingredients? Or is it like comparing apples and oranges?

This is what I'm wondering. I think I'll ask my pediatrician next time we go.

[Marnica]

Originally Posted by KLM99

This is what I'm wondering. I think I'll ask my pediatrician next time we go.

Most medical dcotors have no idea how human vaccines are made....I would doubt they had any useful information about animal vaccines!
Animal vaccines are made in the same fashion that human ones are (makes sense) There are live, modified live, killed and recombinant ones as well as monovalent and multivalent ones (combo shots). Many of them seem to be live virus vaccines...the virus substrates are grown on a variety of cell lines just like human ones are. Canarypox, feline or pig kidney cells seems to be a popular one for animal vaccines! The killed vaccines seem to contain thimerosol as a preservative and/or adjuvants.
There is no difference in how animal and human vaccines are made. The only thing that may differ slightly is the growth medium used (ie feline kidney cells vs. monkey kidney cells). Here is a patent application for a feline vaccine that details exactly how it is made.
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/54...scription.html

this has some interesting info about aminals and vaccines
http://natural-akita.com/NaturalCani...ccination.html

[bbrandonsmom]

All I can say is those of us that I know personally who've worked in the vet field, have known for years and years the harmful effects of vaccines on animals. They association has changed the way they vax-from yearly to every 3yrs, and I know some vets are even trying to change that. They change where they give the vax. There are vets that don't vax non showing animals, because there's no real need. All sorts of things.
I too have seen the oddity of people who believe that animal vax can harm, but human vax can't. I don't understand.

[Sileree]

Originally Posted by bbrandonsmom

I too have seen the oddity of people who believe that animal vax can harm, but human vax can't. I don't understand.

Well, people who don't vaccinate are claimed to suffer from "denialism". Maybe it's the same sorta thing.