Do you ever feel like you are living in another dimension from everyone else?

[angelachristin]

I am sitting here trying hard to hold back tears. I can't really post much abuot it because I know we're not supposed to talk about other message boards, etc. But I am just so sick of speaking out about what I believe in and getting attacked by women saying that it is their right to circ if they want to and that I am crazy and stuff for saying that circ should be illegal. They really believe that they are right and I am crazy. And I'm just so sad about this tonight, that we live in a society that really mostly doesn't think twice about parents lopping off part of a baby boy's body. That they just DON'T FREAKING GET that this is inherently wrong. What is wrong with the world, mamas? Sometimes I feel so alone...in circ and in everything...I feel like I am the only one who knows things that should be so evident and it's sad and scary. They said I shouldn't make people feel bad. That I feel guilty about letting my son be circed and that I want everyone else to feel guilty too, but that they just don't and that is just a-okay because it's their right to circ and I am a lunatic.

[MCatLvrMom2A&X]

I have felt that way many times. I no longer visit other message boards because I cant deal with it.

Try to keep in mind that there are lurkers reading any they can see for themselves how things are and it very well could make the difference.

[Quirky]

It is simply an alternate reality. It's the Matrix. Those of us who are awake to the reality of circumcision chose the red pill, and everyone else living in denial about their sons' "pretty penises" just keeps on swallowing those blue pills, reinforced by the media who tend to print the stories that confirm our societal beliefs about the foreskin as a harbinger of filth and disease.

And believe me it's not just on other boards....it's in the newspapers, our schools, TV shows, our families that we see this (unless we're very lucky).

I about threw up the other night watching really trashy reality TV (Launch My Line, not nearly as good as Project Runway) I was expecting escapist TV and all of a sudden one of the designers and his seamstress are in a discussion about whether the dress they're working on could be worn to a religious circ ceremony, and the designer is all "I had no idea I just had my son snipped in the hospital! Ha ha it's all so funny."

[an_aurora]

Yeah, it gets depressing, doesn't it?

I found out that I had a choice about circumcision from reading a thread on a mainstream message board where everyone was talking about it, and ONE person said "No way would I do that" and it made me go WHAT? You can NOT circ?! And it made me research and we decided to keep our DS (who surprised us and was born sans penis) intact! And now I have three beautiful intact children, and I post on message boards even though it seems hopeless, because someone will be reading and realize they have a choice

[GoodMomma]

This is why I stopped going to other sites. I've doing it for far too long and the years of the crap I've heard I just couldn't do it anymore. That's why I love this site because everyone here feels the same as I do. Save your sanity.....delete your accounts elsewhere, lol.

[Night_Nurse]

Here's my take on it...don't give up and don't get too discouraged. It's true, you're probably not going to convert the pro-circers on other boards, but you might help educate undecided parents and you'll certainly let the one who think there is no other choice know that intact is an option. I always try to be sensitive because you never know who is reading. If you just present the facts and dispel some of the myths, you'll reach people without sounding fanatical (someone on another message board just reminded me of this recently ). People will still circ - some who have researched both sides and others who refuse to see any other way than to circ. People will do what people do. But we reach undecided parents everyday. There are also plenty of parents who have circed one or more boys but after learning more decide to keep other boys intact.

You'll never get people to agree about every issue, even on this site. But do know you are making a difference. Please keep reaching out to those on other sites, especially the more main-stream ones. It's important. Please keep up the good work!

[philomom]

I hear you. It's like ear docking for certain breeds of dogs... it's just done and no one thinks otherwise.


I'm so glad my husband and I chose a different path for our son.

[Claire and Boys]

Living in a non-circing culture where being intact seems to be a complete non-issue for men, and outside of religious groups infant circumcision is just not even thought about, I *do* find it very strange reading American message boards. People saying that intact men are all gross and stinky (well in my experience they just are not!) saying that intact boys will have lots of problems and be so hard to clean, etcetcetc. I just really wonder what planet they are on. Why it is that everyone here seems to manage fine with the parts they were born with, but in America a foreskin is considered a ticking time bomb.

[proudmomof4]

Originally Posted by Claire and Boys

Living in a non-circing culture where being intact seems to be a complete non-issue for men, and outside of religious groups infant circumcision is just not even thought about, I *do* find it very strange reading American message boards. People saying that intact men are all gross and stinky (well in my experience they just are not!) saying that intact boys will have lots of problems and be so hard to clean, etcetcetc. I just really wonder what planet they are on. Why it is that everyone here seems to manage fine with the parts they were born with, but in America a foreskin is considered a ticking time bomb.

Well, same here! (Did I mention I'm a Middle-European? )

Night_Nurse
"Here's my take on it...don't give up and don't get too discouraged. It's true, you're probably not going to convert the pro-circers on other boards, but you might help educate undecided parents and you'll certainly let the one who think there is no other choice know that intact is an option. I always try to be sensitive because you never know who is reading. If you just present the facts and dispel some of the myths, you'll reach people without sounding fanatical (someone on another message board just reminded me of this recently ). People will still circ - some who have researched both sides and others who refuse to see any other way than to circ. People will do what people do. But we reach undecided parents everyday. There are also plenty of parents who have circed one or more boys but after learning more decide to keep other boys intact."


I agree but you still have to know how much you can take - if it depresses you too much, take a "break from mainstream" or unsubscribe from a couple of sites if you've got several accounts.

[hakunangovi]

[QUOTE=angelachristin;15001771] That they just DON'T FREAKING GET that this is inherently wrong.

This is the issue that is so frustrating. Hang in there. Know that you ARE making a difference - even if you don't see it right now. Feel proud of yourself.

[Galatea]

I was one of those parents who thought that everyone circ'ed, and just seeing people on message boards who were against it was enough to make me think about it, and now I have 2 intact sons. So don't get discouraged. Remember you are arguing with either uninformed people, or rabid pro-circers, so you are unlikely to get them to come to your side, but you are arguing for the silent readers.

[PiesandAbrosmama]

The thing about it is when you as a mother choose a path *most* not all that I have found have to DEFEND what they have chosen to do as a mother. This comes into play regarding birth, breastfeeding, circ, spanking, being *afraid* to baby wear ect. I have found people are not to open to admit that maybe they made a wrong choice and wish to change it and because of this reality they must not only defend themselves they will attack others they feel are "attacking" there style of parenting. So really your just dealing with insecurity and need to recognize it is themselves that they are defending not really attacking you.
It still is amazing to me that circ is such an intense thing though. even in places like LLL and attachment/baby wearing circles I still here "We wanted him to look like his dad" I really don't get that frame of mind.
Hopefully you will still stand by your convictions!

[QueenOfTheMeadow]

Just a reminder:

Do not negatively discuss other communities or discussions elsewhere (this includes blog comments), regardless of whether or not you link to that discussion or community. This is to maintain and respect the integrity of our own and other communities.

[MyBoysBlue]

Originally Posted by Galatea

. . . . you are arguing for the silent readers.

This is what brought me to MDC. I never considered circing my boys but that is just a result of being raised here in Canada. I was a silent reader elsewhere. I learned a little bit from someone who spoke up against Circ when the topic was raised. I was intrigued that this was an issue, I always though it was just a choice parents can make. I didn't know what was going on or how horrible circ was. I was shocked that so many North American Parents were doing this to their boys. " Circumcision, the more you know the worse it gets." Well I know more now and am still learning but now I can't be silent. I speak up when I can and try to get good info out there.

So remember, you may not always see the results of your efforts, but it is still worth it. I understand the frustration though. I am working on getting through to my SIL.

[claddaghmom]

I agree about the silent readers!

It's a silent reader on my FB who now has an intact son, after 2 other sons were cut. I not ONCE talked to her, nor did she talk to me about it. I was arguing w/ other people and she read my history on my wall.

I always try to think of the silent readers. The ones who protest rarely change. They have something to die for that is more important than the argument they carry into battle. Ego, stability, denial, whatever it is, they won't let go of it. If you know this ahead of time, it helps.

[Galatea]

Remember that someone who is defending elective genital cosmetic surgery on an unconsenting infant is unlikely to be entirely rational on the subject. I have been at this for 6 years and the change is huge - most people are even ignoring the current HIV hoopla - so we are winning. Try not to let them get to you.

[beru]

I know how you feel.

I don't know where I got my ideas about circumcision before I got pregnant but to me, it was a no brainer that you don't remove parts of your babies' genitals. I thought the people making the choice to circumcise their boys were uneducated and, frankly, stupid. I just simply assumed that my friends (of my same socioeconomic and educational background & not religious) also understood what a no-brainer it was. Three of us got pregnant at the same time and the other two decided they would circ their boys! I was completely incredulous. It completely rocked my world. These were people I loved that I never expected such complete idiocy from. It made me lose respect for them. Then I noticed that the majority of women I worked with were circing their boys. These are all women with college educations, most with masters' degrees! I just can't understand it. After 5 years of motherhood it does not cease to absolutely amaze me that people see this as a reasonable thing to do. Stunned! That's how I feel everytime I think about this subject.

I do sometimes think if I am the one that is so completely out of sync with what all these educated, intelligent women think maybe it is me that is crazy. And my friends? They have turned out to be absolutely wonderful mothers in every other way-I mean absolutely superb. That has restored my respect and faith in them as people...but the inane choice they made for their sons causes me such dissonance. It's really hard to cope with and I feel like I am in the Twilight Zone.*

*Remember this episode ?
I feel like the woman with the normal face surrounded by the pitying, ugly people.
"Where is this place and when is it? What kind of world where ugliness is the norm and beauty the deviation from that norm?"

[angelachristin]

Originally Posted by beru

"Where is this place and when is it? What kind of world where ugliness is the norm and beauty the deviation from that norm?"

Oh my gosh. I almost started to cry reading that quote. It is exactly how I feel. Wow. Thank you.

I wonder why it is so hard for people to admit they might have made a mistake, to swallow the red pill? I circed my son. I didn't know any better. I have beat myself up about it for 3 years now. But as the wonderful mamas here reminded me and I keep reminding myself, "When you know better, you do better." I just don't understand those who have no interest in knowing better. When I saw the truth about circ I didn't try to shield myself from it because I let it be done to my son, in an effort to protect myself. I read everything I could. I cried for days. One day when he is an adult, I will talk to my son about it. I can't unsee what I have seen and un-know what I know. But it seems like others can, and it infuriates me and saddens me and sickens me. Someone asked me how I could possibly think it should ever be made illegal. She said she was "amazed at people like me" that I could ever think so. I feel like my head is spinning in a circle. How can it NOT be illegal? You can't remove other parts of your child. Why this one?

[Quirky]

Oh, mama. Not everyone is as brave as you are to see the truth and admit what happened to your precious baby.

I do think it helps as others have said to realize that other parents love their babies, too, and some just really, really, really can't face that they might have harmed their babies. That's why they have to be so defended against circ -- because the alternative is so painful.

This is one reason I mostly blame the doctors -- I hate that so many in the medical profession are secretly against circ but still do them or don't speak up and do. their. freakin'. JOBS of ensuring informed consent. So it's left to parents to do their own research, and then it's left to parents to defend those choices they've made even when they were actively or passively misled.

[MamaChicken]

I was one of those "Silent Readers". I now have two intact sons. I was educated from reading posts, but not engaging in an arguement.

You may never know what a difference you are making.