Did anyone here leave a perfectly nice, loving, wonderful father and husband . . . - Page 3

[slylives]

Originally Posted by meandmine

By staying and working on a marriage you are not living an empty life. You may be demonstrating self-sacrifice and having certain priorities (the kids). When choosing to have children one should be choosing to put their needs, not your passions and dreams, first. They have no choice. Children should not pay the price of their parent's "fulfillment."

Except in the case of abuse (physical, emotional or verbal) or neglect, I think the *adults* should work very hard to preserve and improve the marriage rather than walk to achieve their "passions." Children before passion every time in my book.

I could not have put it better myself.

[LoMaH]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

How can i teach my children to seek happy lives by demonstrating to them how *I* am living an empty one? Or am i meant to be teaching THEM to put up, make do and put their dreams and passions away too?

IMO, kids learn more from the relationships that they're in (w/ their parents, siblings, etc. ) than from the ones they observe (barring abuse).

I'm not saying that their parents' relationships to one another doesn't make an impact on them. But, I believe that their relationships with each parent is more significant to them and are the skills that they'll transfer over to other relationships as they grow up.

[GoBecGo]

My parents stayed together. My parents almost NEVER fought. My parents both felt trapped, unappreciated and unfulfilled in their own way. Neither of them ever told me this, i could plainly see it by the time i was 5. And i spent 5 years of my OWN adult life with a man who made me feel trapped, unappreciated and unfulfilled, AND i had a baby with him before i realised that whatever my parents thought, theirs was not the only "right" way. They did NOT teach me good things about how to live my life in that regard. Not at all. Both of them ended up having depression. I think a lot of people on this thread are underestimating the long-term impact living like this can actually have on someone. It should be noted that i am from my mother's second marriage, the first she stayed in despite frequent rapes and beatings for FIFTEEN years until one day he threw her down the stairs, breaking her nose and arm, and she saw her 14 year old son, looking completely indifferent to it all by then, standing at the top of the stairs looking at her. She was someone who believed she had to stay and work at it. She left because she realised she was going to be murdered or raise wife-beaters if she didn't. Clearly it was a too-gentle lesson for her because she stayed in an entirely different kind of unhappiness with my (good, loving) father.

I appreciate there are some who would put their mental health before their children, but i have had mental illness, and i know it will make me into an unfit parent, so i am not about to do that. It would not benefit my child in any way.

IMO, kids learn more from the relationships that they're in (w/ their parents, siblings, etc. ) than from the ones they observe (barring abuse).

TBH that seems very convenient! That children CAN be terribly detrimentally affected by seeing mommy slapped or punched by daddy but if daddy is just indifferent to mommy and mommy doesn't give a hoot what daddy's opinion or interests are the kids won't notice...? Maybe your kids, but not mine, she already makes VERY piercing observations and questions about relationships around her, and she has never been exposed to abusive relationships.

By staying and working on a marriage you are not living an empty life. You may be demonstrating self-sacrifice and having certain priorities (the kids). When choosing to have children one should be choosing to put their needs, not your passions and dreams, first. They have no choice. Children should not pay the price of their parent's "fulfillment."

They DO have no choice. And they have no choice but to see you're not happy and feel it is all their fault, because you are prostrating yourself on the cross of mummy-hood for them (and i did feel that as a child "if it weren't for me mummy would be happy"). I think it's a ridiculous myth that children do better with unhappy but together parents than happier separate ones. My DD sees me work on my HAPPY marriage, that's why it is happy! She sees both the work and the rewards. As a kid i saw a lot of work, and yes, i was in my mid-20's before i realised a marriage didn't have to be misery and effort for nothing.

I am all for working on failing relationships, and i work hard to prevent my relationship from getting to "failing". But let me tell you, in my last relationship i got to basically flogging the ground where the dead horse used to be, and he was not at all interested in me or my efforts, he was NOT working at it, he was not willing to work at it or interested in working at it. He was not abusive, or a horrible person, he just wasn't interesting in doing anything to protect, enrich or maintain our relationship with me. He wasn't in love with me any more, and he wasn't able or willing to pretend. And why should he? And if he isn't going to, what am i teaching my daughter about what a woman should be, about what a wife should be and do and expect, by staying with him to "try" some more?

I know lots of people who are the children of unhappy or unfulfilling marriages. Some of them have gone on to repeat the situation and some haven't. I accept that it isn't by any means the ONLY way, to leave and find happiness somewhere else, but it isn't an inherently bad way either.

I take DD's happiness, for now and for the future VERY seriously, as i know everyone posting does. Many will look at me and say i put my own happiness first, maybe that's how it seems. But i read a poem as a child called "children learn what they live". It was certainly incredibly impactful (because it was so true for me) when i read it aged 10, and i cannot forget it. The way i treat her and the way she sees me treat and be treated by other people is too important for me to let something as huge as marital misery just slide.

[Teenytoona]

Great post, GoBecGo.

[changingseasons]

I do agree with what you're saying GoBecGo, BUT... the op doesn't really sound like a case of relationship-caused stress/unhealthy mental state... it sounds like "I'm bored with my husband." I think that is 2 TOTALLY different things. The first is definitely grounds for looking in a new direction, the second (IMO) is a reason to get help and see if things can be revived.

[Ceinwen]

Originally Posted by changingseasons

I do agree with what you're saying GoBecGo, BUT... the op doesn't really sound like a case of relationship-caused stress/unhealthy mental state... it sounds like "I'm bored with my husband." I think that is 2 TOTALLY different things. The first is definitely grounds for looking in a new direction, the second (IMO) is a reason to get help and see if things can be revived.

And if things can't be revived, with help - it's okay to get out.

My ex and I were together for ten years, two kids. We did marital counselling, all the things you should attempt to do to re-fire a marriage. I could have written the OP's post... except my ex felt the same way about me. We irritated each other, the attraction was long gone, and there so wasn't enough there for us to stay together - unhappily.

I think everyone owes it to themselves to put 110% into a relationship, but they also owe it to themselves to get out if they need to. I live for me - not for my children.

[LoMaH]

Originally Posted by GoBecGo

That children CAN be terribly detrimentally affected by seeing mommy slapped or punched by daddy but if daddy is just indifferent to mommy and mommy doesn't give a hoot what daddy's opinion or interests are the kids won't notice...?
snip
I appreciate there are some who would put their mental health before their children, but i have had mental illness, and i know it will make me into an unfit parent, so i am not about to do that. It would not benefit my child in any way
snip
he was not at all interested in me or my efforts, he was NOT working at it, he was not willing to work at it or interested in working at it. He was not abusive, or a horrible person, he just wasn't interesting in doing anything to protect, enrich or maintain our relationship with me. He wasn't in love with me any more, and he wasn't able or willing to pretend.

GoBecGo
I'm sorry that you've been through all of that.

From Oceanbaby's description, her situation isn't anything like what you just described.

She wrote:
We have a wonderful life -
We're best friends, total trust and commitment, he's a wonderful father.
He adores me and finds me sexy and attractive
I don't want to be divorced.
I don't want to be a single mom.
I don't want to date
I don't want my kids to deal with mommy's boyfriend or daddy's girlfriend.
I feel worse for him than me - he should be with someone who doesn't cring when he tries to be intimate.
It's not that he's lazy - he takes out the garbage and cleans just as much as I do, lawn care, etc. etc.

These are the issues she listed:
I just don't respect him as a "man"
He's very insecure in social situations
The way he interacts at social events just makes me angry.
He has a nervous laugh when talking to waitstaff in restaurants.
At parties he either doesn't engage with anyone or else he talks like a frat boy
he has no initiative
no initiative, no ideas, no take charge, no . . . umph
I find his body very unattractive . .
zero sexual interest in him.
his weight, but the shape, the massive amounts of hair
I used to have compassion for him, but I feel like I've just lost my patience.
How long is he going to just stay stuck being the same ole schlump, you know?
We just have a really bad dynamic where I am in charge of everything and he does what I tell him.
He just does the most annoying things.

I don't know. It all sounds very petty and shallow when I write it out. But it doesn't change the fact that I just have no romantic interest in him at all, and don't feel like I have an equal, adult partner.

The OP didn't give us ANY information about what she and her dh have done to remedy these issues.
No mention of whether she's even discussed this with her dh, no mention of counseling, whether dh has tried to diet/exercise/shave ... nothing.

No one's advising her to do anything other than to try to work at it first before calling it quits.

[Slabobbin]

Subbing

[mysticmomma]

I'm wondering if you've shared this with DH and what he says.

[paula444four]

Hi

Hi dear Mama,

My advice is to:

a) shave his body...my DH is VERY hairy and we have a date with the trimmers anytime I am sick of looking at it...there is also permanent hair removal if you have the money for it

b)I would advise against a divorce. The point of marriage is to work on the things that would normally have you running as fast as you can. Especially so since you have children together...and their happiness and overall emotional/psychological health is an important consideration (if not more important than your own in my opinion)

c) STOP comparing men!!! Its a waste of time and spirit. They are all beasts underneath it all hehe and there is a woman (or a man) behind them who has their own list of complaints. Comparing is very unhealthy and will do nothing to help your marriage.

d)do you have love letters from your courtship that you could read through? historical/archival stuff from better times are very helpful in refocusing on the love that got you to this point.

e) can you ignite correspondance with him where you can both discuss the important issues slowly, with thought, and without the tones that make oral communication so challenging?

f)definitely counseling

g) a time of separation could bring you more clarity...can you take the kids to a farm for a couple week or a month?

h) if you just want some good sex...consider asking for an open relationship...but that has its downfalls of course...

Good luck dear mama!!!

[doulatara]

I have read alot of this thread and skimmed some of it.

I definitely agree that counseling would be great. Also, I would sit and think about all of the things about your partner that drew you in initially. What about him do you love/or at least used to love? Have these conversations with him, recall the "falling in love" phase with him. Set a time, at least a few times per month, where you bring your kid's to a trusted friend, aunt, grandparent and completely unplug. No computers, cell phone, anything. If watching a film together and cuddling is something you enjoy do that, but otherwise find something that the two of you can do together that you enjoy that hopefully includes talking and laughing. My dh and I often tell eachother about the first time we met (very much a love/lust at first sight experience) and it makes us closer remembering. (I try to make a habit of asking my doula clients, if there is a lull in their labor, about how they met or started dating, and it helps so much with the intimacy of the moment and gets labor going again almost all the time! You would be surprised at the wonders doing this works.) Also, do nice, completely unexpected things for him. Encourage him to do the same...makes such a difference.

There are counselors that are free and cheap through social services, or sliding scale options. You may have to get creative to find cheap or inexpensive things to do together, but it will definitely provide bonding experiences. Even going for walks together holding hands with make your relationship feel stronger.

Staying connected often can take lots of work. What are your needs that are not being met? Can you have an honest conversation about this with your husband? What are small steps that can improve your relationship? Use "I statements" of course when you talk to him or it could make things worse. Doing nothing is not an option, and it sounds like you do not want to leave. The only option left it seems is to work really hard on making things better.

I am not saying you should absolutely not get divorced, but it sounds like your marriage is worth fighting for, or at least making a strong attempt. If it does not work out in the longrun then you can deal with that in the future, but don't let yourself have any regrets or what-ifs if you know your spouse is a good man, great father, etc.

Also, does your husband have a job he doesn't like? I realize saying something like "have him find a new job" may be unreasonable in this economy, but I do know my marriage went through a really tough rut when my dh had a job that made him miserable. We have not even been married that long (3.5 years, 7 years together now) but a year and a half ago I probably would have said there was no way we would have been together at this point. It was his job that made him miserable and in that process I had lost so much respect for the person on my couch (he was basically only on the couch, did nothing else for himself other than work, sleep and eat) and it was terrible. Now he has a job he likes and our relationship is amazing in every way...so much so that I have to sit and marvel at just how healthy and wonderful he is pretty much daily. I would have never ever thought so by how low we once were.

Do you both have passions, outside of work that you can pursue? Artistic or otherwise? Doing something you enjoy (most likely separately) can help so much in life perspective and the way you hold yourself in all arenas. If he feels good and confident about himself in a hobby or passion, that feeling will most likely be brought with him to his confidence, parenting, etc. And you might feel like you can let go of certain things that drive you crazy and see him in a more positive light!

Also, if you can manage....have him take care of things, in his way....and don't criticize or knitpick when he does. Ask yourself, every time you feel like his behavior is annoying or not-assertive, is this something tthat is worth holding onto? Will you remember this a year down the road? If nnot do the work to let it go. Be lighthearted.

I am not trying to blame you for these issues, but sometimes I feel we really have to look at ourselves and realize why we get so worked up, annoyed or triggered by other people's actions.

Goodluck.

[philomom]

Originally Posted by meandmine

By staying and working on a marriage you are not living an empty life. You may be demonstrating self-sacrifice and having certain priorities (the kids). When choosing to have children one should be choosing to put their needs, not your passions and dreams, first. They have no choice. Children should not pay the price of their parent's "fulfillment."

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Dragonfly]

Originally Posted by slylives

OP - I have some experience of the feelings you have. I acknowledged them, discussed them at length with my husband, and we worked at it. (And this was before we even had children.) Now that I am a parent, I cannot even fathom - really, cannot even contemplate - breaking apart our home because I felt a lack of connection, as it were.

I believe there is a marked difference between lack of connection and resentment. Lack of connection can be bridged, and sometimes quite easily - finding a similar interest to share, setting apart some time for the two of you, etc. Resentment is a tougher ball game. It can be dispelled only through hard work on the part of both parties (provided both are willing to do the work), and sometimes not even then. IMO, it can sometimes come down to simple chemistry. As thinking beings, supposedly capable of overriding instinct, we convince ourselves that it's surmountable. But is it really? And, if so, at what cost? Resentment is detrimental to the family unit and to each individual member, including the children.

oceanbaby, I've been in a similar place, though my relationship with my husband wasn't anywhere as close to as long-lived as yours. I chose to end it. We tried counseling. He wasn't receptive - he felt as though the counselor (a woman) was blaming him for all our troubles. (I wondered if we had actually been sitting in the same room.) My husband is a good person, a loving father, but he was not going to change. He didn't have the drive to change, or even the self-awareness to see that it was necessary. Honestly, I think it would have been too psychologically painful for him to change. Over time, the fact that I needed him to brought him to resent me, too.

I won't lie to you and tell you it's been easy. But it's been better. SO much better. For me, for him (he now has a woman in his life who accepts him for who he is), and for our son. Yes, he sometimes - very rarely - gets sad that we're not all together in the same house, but he is fundamentally happy and secure. And he has the benefit of two parents who can feel relaxed and content in their homes so that they can focus on him. I am quite positive that I haven't sacrificed my child's sense of stability for my own happiness. Rather, I've given myself happiness while providing a more peaceful, stabile home for my son.

If you feel like the marriage is salvageable - that you and your husband can do the work and get to a place where it's good again - then you absolutely should. But if you do the work and find that the only way to have a happy home is to have a separate home, then, IMO, you should take the steps to make that happen and leave any guilt behind.

[lifes too short]

 Except she didn't say she was only leaving because of a lack of passion.  She has totally lost respect for him also.  I believe there's a difference and children will definitely pick up on having no respect for your husband. 

[Thystle]

#1.) Have you had this talk with DH?

#2.) Is your DH depressed?

#3.) Is your DH autistic at all? Take a few quizes online to get an idea if it's possible.

#4.) Have you been to therapy?

#5.) Have you tried getting in shape with him and offering to wax him? I mean you must have been attracted to him at one point right? When did it stop? Was it before or after this feeling of being unhappy?

[mommatooth]

I feel like I wrote this post.  SERIOUSLY.  And I did leave- my situation was different though, we were only together a few months before I got pregnant, and I started to see that I was everybody's mom before dd was even born.  I labored by myself - although he was there etc.  I laughed when you said your hubby pulled the drama routine for a stubbed toe- mine once stayed home from work because he was stung by a bee!  

Anyway, my issues are so similar, I couldn't just read... he isn't a man, he is a ten year old boy. I am an artist, I have to go to openings, and be social and I enjoy it....but get one beer in my ex and he was ... well I won't let him talk to anyone important- I once asked him to sit in the car, I though he was going to ruin my career!  I am not saying the things I did were right, and I may have destroyed our relationship with my ideals, but I couldn't be happy.   I felt that not only could I not rely on him, but that he was a liability. I tried couceling, and I found myself just spitting out horrible things about him- little details to her.  He wanted to try and be a good dad, but he was ridiculous- not in a harmful way, but I just kept thinking "you can't be trying"  and I would have to redo anything that he did.

 Early in our relationship he was "sick" (before I knew how much he complained- how weak he acted) and I was making chicken soup- I got the broth all ready to go and sent him to the corner/local grocery (3 blocks away) for carrots.... he came back an hour later with a huge bag of frozen carrots from wal-mart...yes, he drove all the way into boxville (several miles away) to go to a store I won't set foot in, to buy pre-cut frozen carrots... and he was all proud because they were dirt cheap!  nice, for my from scratch chicken soup.  

So- I am glad I left, I found myself being so disappointed all of the time- I couldn't accept his happy idiotness- I needed a deeper connection.  We couldn't really have a good fight because I felt like he didn't speak english sometimes- it was like arguing  with a ten year old. I didn't feel like this was a good model for my daughter, me taking care of everything all the time and feeling frustrated with him pretty openly.  I took our daughter on a long weekend when she was small- the idea of him having a break (not that he needed one, but we both could use some time) when I got home the house was littered with crappy food wrappers and his big tv had been moved into the living room - dishes in the sink, dirty bathroom etc.  I was under the impression that my leaving might give him some space to tidy up do some thinking- but no, I returned to a much larger wreck than I left...and the part where I loose it?  he doesn't even see it or understand my frustration.  He said "you didn't tell me to clean the house"  and if I HAD, he might have.   

My situation is different than yours though, I wasn't leaving a history...   It is sad, I feel bad for him, I know I sound awful and judgmental, but we both deserve to be happy - happy parents are best for kids.  He wasn't happy with me feeling let down all the time, I was frustrated...it didn't work.  We are still friends, I live 3 states away right now and am totally broke- I had to leave my network to find a place I could afford...my daughter and I are rebuilding.  I know I did the right thing for me.  I don't know if I could have faked it, or become more accepting.  I don't know for sure if my disappointment was general and  he was an easy target... My daughter is fine, she misses him, he is a wreck over her.  I try and be supportive, but I supervise their phone calls because I still feel like I have to be damage control if he is involved.  I wasn't always a control freak- I feel like he put me in that position and I rose to the occasion, just like OP said "they had this bad dynamic" that is exactly it.  

So I would say if you can leave and still be friends, still both maintain your relationships with your kids, you should be happy.  You are modeling everyday for those kids, and they will pick up the dynamic...who knows maybe DH will start to make his own choices once you stop being there?  (mine didn't he just started following his friends).  Maybe just being separated will help you both see things more clearly.  Never think you need to do anything that hurts just for your kids (except maybe stay up all night :)- if it feels wrong, there is probably another way.

I hope this helps, and honestly- it was fun to read your post so similar to my own thoughts, it makes me feel connected, less insane :)

[Ldavis24]

I saw this post OP and couldn't not comment although I am not a single mama.

I feel so bad for you dealing with these thoughts, on a light note my DH is terribly hairy and he is young enough so that it is only going to get worse over time. He is also a big chubby but I know that is a direct result of the stress we both have been dealing with the past year or so.

A lot of your complaints I noticed focused on how he is not enough of a man, doesn't take initiative, do things for himself etc.

I honestly have felt this way about my DH often in the past, then I realized something. The reason he isn't like that is because I do EVERYTHING. I just assume he isn't going to do it and then do stuff myself. I believe you said in one of your posts that you end up doing it all anyway and you are resentful or something along those lines.

Have you considered the possibility of taking a step back and just not doing stuff. If things need to get done, tell him you aren't going to be able to do it and then if he wants it done he should take care of it. I took a drastic step with DH and basically stopped doing everything as a means to get him motivated to do think of ideas, take care of things himself. He can complain he is bored or we should get out of the house and instead of just complaining about it he now makes plans.

I found that I was truly the reason he was acting this way. When you take authority away from someone long enough to make decisions on their own their own, they pretty much stop making any decisions at all. I felt more like a mother to DH than a wife but it really did change once I realized that I was a huge part of the problem.

I am not saying that you, OP are the problem directly but that portion of your post really reminded me of how I used to complain to DH himself how he had no self motivation. As far as the hairy thing and body shape, I guess I would ask how you would feel if your DH decided that things about yourself that you have no control over (hair) were suddenly disgusting. The weight is another issue that can be worked on but if your husband's hairy state disgusts you then perhaps as another PP said just gently bringing up trimming it. Without hurt feelings if possible. I can't comment on disliking a hairy man though because my DH could be Robin Williams sibling with his hairy body and I honestly love it. I feel like it is so masculine instead of being hairless like a little boy. Sorry mamas if you have a hairless hubby!

[plum tree]

The original post of this thread is over a year old.  Any updates, oceanbaby? 

[tnmom66]

NO IT IS NOT REASON TO BUST UP YOUR FAMILY and I am sure you will regret it if you go that path.

The thing to do is to fix what is broken. Get whatever help may be available. Figure out what happened,

My ex-husband didn't find me sexually attractive after I gained weight. He married another (skinny) woman who divorced him before their 3rd anniversary and broke his and our children's hearts. He told me a friend of his, who he had been out of touch with  for a few years  told him about his experience. of having a smart, sweet wife with a good job but he just didn't find her sexually attractive anymore. He divorced her, had an affair with a sexually attractive woman who dumped him and when he wanted to go back to his wife, she was already involved with another man. He told my ex that he felt like he should have "FOOL" tattooed on his forehead for ever giving up his good woman in the first place.

YOU NEED HELP, not to get stay miserable, make your husband miserable, or shatter  your family.  I am sure you are not the first or only woman to deal with this.  I'd start out by seeing a doctor or GYN. I believe you can rekindle the spark.

You may also be depressed/stressed which can definitely bring about a lack of sexual desire for ANYONE. Some antidepressants decrease libido, so watch out for that.

Don't give this up without a HUGE fight! Do you know how many woman would "kill" for a husband like the  one you have described?

I wish you the VERY best of luck in getting this worked out.

[MaWhit]

I highly recommend counseling.  And you might check out the book Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay.