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Breech...tell me about it...updated

post #1 of 32
Thread Starter 
I'm almost 33 weeks. DD is breech. I know it's early, she can still turn, but it's freaking me out a bit. All my other kiddos seemed to have always been head down, I've never dealt with this before.
It certainly doesn't help that this is my rainbow baby that I am scared to death of delivering. I'm on a blood thinner so can't have an Epidural, unless I switch "brands" before delivery. i've never even had an epidural, much less a section. They were already talking induction to control the timing of my labor and to get her out safely as soon as possible. i've never been induced either! I know I'm probably overreacting, but I'm a worrier. I'm really freaking out!
So, tell me what you know about/have experienced with breech babies.
post #2 of 32
First of all, you don't need to be induced - so really, just say no to them. Babies come when they are ready.
Second - the more pregnancies you have had (full term) - the more erm...space your uterus has as its been through much more! lol...So, because of this, 'statistically' speaking, subsequent babies can turn heads down much later in pregnancy than firsts for example.
Third - breech is just a variation of normal. It helps to know this yourself of course. Heres a fab website that covers a lot about breech to help put your mind at ease.
post #3 of 32
Thread Starter 
interesting....but I'm not doing a HB and I doubt the hospital here would let me even think about trying to labor and deliver breech...BUT something I need to look into further.

Could this new to me position explain some of the "pain" (uncomfortable-ness) I feel. Just seems like she's so big in there.
post #4 of 32
I'd be more scared of induction than a breech baby, personally. Looking into options isn't a bad idea! Then if the baby does end up breech, you'll already have some research done, and you might just find something better!

My breech birth wasn't a problem. I haven't had a vertex baby yet (next month I hope!), so I have nothing to compare it to, but as labors go, it didn't strike me as overly difficult.

I think the breech position can be more uncomfortable during pregnancy. I know my ribs were much more sore from that hard hard head rubbing them all the time. Also, sometimes the breech baby doesn't fit as well into the pelvis, so you feel more crowded, I think. Of course, this vertex baby is uncomfortable in other ways, my pelvis is more sore with this baby than with my breech. So you never know.
post #5 of 32
this baby was brech until 34 weeks. I used hypnobabies downloadable MP3 track -turn your breech baby, went to the chiropractor, and did a few inversions from the spinning babies website and it turned within a week. None of these can hurt, I have also heard homeopathic pulsatilla works well for some. Relaxing is important as sometimes tension in the uterine muscles makes it hard to turn. But, as others said it's not the end of the world, you still have options, but I'd try a few things before I totally accepted it. Also I was going to have acupuncture the next week if baby was still butt down. Sometimes there is good reason for them to be butt down, or they are taking their time, or it's just a variation of normal as some pp said.
post #6 of 32
Quote:
and I doubt the hospital here would let me even think about trying to labor and deliver breech
But its NOT the hospitals body or baby - it is NOT the hospital going into labour and giving birth - it is NOT their decision at the end of the day. You live in America for Gods sake! - the so called 'land of the free'!.... Don't let them shove you around! It is YOUR body and YOUR baby!

I don't know about your uncomfortablness - I find this heads down baby of mine more uncomfortable than my breech 10 and a half pound son was! lol ...But then this one seems to like to poke me in my cervix all day long...and the feet doing the tango on my ribs...welll...lol
post #7 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
But its NOT the hospitals body or baby - it is NOT the hospital going into labour and giving birth - it is NOT their decision at the end of the day. You live in America for Gods sake! - the so called 'land of the free'!.... Don't let them shove you around! It is YOUR body and YOUR baby!

I don't know about your uncomfortablness - I find this heads down baby of mine more uncomfortable than my breech 10 and a half pound son was! lol ...But then this one seems to like to poke me in my cervix all day long...and the feet doing the tango on my ribs...welll...lol
***************************

Mama, I was in your shoes in 2007. At 33 weeks my baby was breech, and everyone told me I had a lot of time. Then my membranes ruptured and my son was born spontaneously at 34 weeks--bum first.

I suppose I had the lluxury of knowing for the week between the membrane rupture and my labour that my baby would be breech, and this allowed me to gain support and knowledge on an area I knew nothing about.

I suppose all I have to say is that vaginal birth for breech is safe, and that a c-section is not necessary. Please seek out empirical evidence on the safety of breech birth.

The other thing that I had to come to terms with was that I would not be birthing in a friendly environment--and I did not. I was told my baby could die, and then when he was born with some issues, I was told it was because I refused a c-section, not because he was premature. It was a horrible scene with a nurse yelling at me that she was going to wheel me into the operating room, the OB/GYN setting up said room, and me in transition refusing the c-section.

Oh, and I am so very sorry to read of your loss . If you do plan to refuse a c-section in an unfriendly environment, please prepare yourself as best you can emotionally for your loss to be used as ammunition against you. I know it's horrible, but I don't think it's unlikely that it would be used as coercion.

But the bottom line is that babies do not need permission to come out of your vagina. DOCTORS NEED PERMISSION TO CUT YOU OPEN.
post #8 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by ann_of_loxley View Post
But its NOT the hospitals body or baby - it is NOT the hospital going into labour and giving birth - it is NOT their decision at the end of the day. You live in America for Gods sake! - the so called 'land of the free'!.... Don't let them shove you around! It is YOUR body and YOUR baby!
That is really not fair. If a hospital does not have available a doctor/midwife who is trained and experienced with breech delivery than they will NOT perform the birth. The mother will walk out of the hospital in the worst case scenario, essentially refusing treatment.

The best thing the OP can do is seek out a hospital and midwife or doctor who will take her on. In my area, the doctors that do breech vaginal deliveries will not take on a new patient because she wants a breech vaginal delivery, they will only perform breech vaginal deliveries on their current patients. I'm not sure of which midwive's might do this. A couple of years ago there was a woman who walked out of two hospitals because both hospitals refused a vaginal delivery of her twins (not sure of the circumstances) and she ended up losing one of the babies (again, not sure why); she was charged with neglect and endangering her babies for refusing medical care.

I was 8cm when my breech was discovered so I had to have a cesarean as that is obviously the wrong time to seek out a doc or midwife who can do a vaginal delivery so I went from a peaceful homebirth to a cesarean. It happens. It wasn't my fault.


To the OP, my reccomendation would be to find out who can do a vaginal breech delivery and be as prepared as possible, but please don't feel guilty or responsible if noone will perform one for you and you end up getting cut if babe doesn't turn.
post #9 of 32
I'm 33 wks too and my babe is also breech, though he/she turns alot still so I'm trying not to stress too much. Just hope that when she runs out of room to turn she happens to be head down. I find myself feeling alot at night to see where it's head is and get a surge of panic when I feel it up at the top. My 2nd ds was sideways (always) until 38 wks which sorry, would have been an automatic section and I was really starting to panic w/him, but he did turn and came out head first..he just needed to prepare me for the road ahead w/him! lol!
One story about breech I have that helps keep me calm is my neice. She was breech until 42 weeks! She actually turned the night before my sis's scheduled induction (not sure if they were going to delivery breech or what, she's 16 yo now, so too long ago to remember). My sis said it was quite an uncomfortbale ordeal for her to turn that late, and she was a 9 lb babe, but she did turn adn my sis had a normal vaginal delivery! So, I guess my pint with that story is that if left to their own devices, these babies know when they are ready to be born and will eventually turn. I wonder how many 'breech' babies are born cesarean when they may have just needed a little more time and would have turned all on thier own?

As a side note though, I am starting to ask ?'s about delivering a breech baby and what I've run into is that I'd have to travel a long way, out of state, which is so frustrating cause I've had 2 successful vaginal deliveris and my babies so far have not been 'big' and just think I could do a breech delivery. I too feel that I can't have a section, I have low BP and don't do well with any meds, and doubt an epidural would be a good idea, ( as well as general anesthesia) so it does scare me a bit. hang in there and please keep us posted!
post #10 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerforever1977 View Post
That is really not fair. If a hospital does not have available a doctor/midwife who is trained and experienced with breech delivery than they will NOT perform the birth. The mother will walk out of the hospital in the worst case scenario, essentially refusing treatment.

The best thing the OP can do is seek out a hospital and midwife or doctor who will take her on. In my area, the doctors that do breech vaginal deliveries will not take on a new patient because she wants a breech vaginal delivery, they will only perform breech vaginal deliveries on their current patients. I'm not sure of which midwive's might do this. A couple of years ago there was a woman who walked out of two hospitals because both hospitals refused a vaginal delivery of her twins (not sure of the circumstances) and she ended up losing one of the babies (again, not sure why); she was charged with neglect and endangering her babies for refusing medical care.

I was 8cm when my breech was discovered so I had to have a cesarean as that is obviously the wrong time to seek out a doc or midwife who can do a vaginal delivery so I went from a peaceful homebirth to a cesarean. It happens. It wasn't my fault.


To the OP, my reccomendation would be to find out who can do a vaginal breech delivery and be as prepared as possible, but please don't feel guilty or responsible if noone will perform one for you and you end up getting cut if babe doesn't turn.
Mama, I am sorry for your experience, and I understand how women feel forced into c-sections. But it is still a choice.

I suppose this is regional, but in my case doctors are required to do their best. They cannot refuse care. They can say they "won't" delivery a vaginal breech, but they are not allowed to walk out on you.
And they do often throw out the "but I'm not experienced..." argument when they realize that women do know a vaginal birth is safe.
As i mentioned, I had the 'luxury' of a week's notice that my baby WOULD be born breech as it's unlikely to turn with ruptured membranes, so I was able to ask these questions. When told "we don't do that here" I recall replying with "what? Will you wheel me out and dump me in the parking lot?" And of course the answer is that they have to do their best. Around here, you get who is on call, so there is no finding someone who will do it. It's hoping someone less hostile will be on call when you go into labour. We also have regulated midwifery and the college does not allow midwives to attend breech births at home without risk of losing their license.
post #11 of 32
I also recommend relaxing, if you can.
If you can't, you could try these:
#1: Check out www.spinningbabies.com
#2: Find a Chiropractor that knows the Webster Technique, which is painless and can help babies turn
#3: Try the homeopathic remedy pulsatilla
#4: Talk to someone who will deliver breech

I had a surprise breech homebirth at 42 weeks. It was fine. With experienced and competent help, your body can probably do anything!
HTH!
post #12 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbelisle2 View Post
#2: Find a Chiropractor that knows the Webster Technique, which is painless and can help babies turn
I would say "it is mildly uncomfortable compared with labour" in my experience.
post #13 of 32
Thread Starter 
So i went to the chiro on Thursday
yesterday (saturday) was AWFUL...my back was killing me, baby was up high in my right ribs, I was all around miserable physically and emotionally.
About 10 pm as I was trying to go to sleep, I got a big kick and flip maybe. that's what it felt like, a flip, but I am scared it is just wishful thinking.
Today, she has been much less active (but still moving about), lower down under my ribs and more to the left.
What do you think?
I am supposed to go back to the chiro tomorrow (weather permitting...lots of snow here) but my NST/OB appt isn't til Thursday.
I'm slightly concerned about her decreasse in movement, but hate to be a nilly, lol
post #14 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom to E and A View Post
So i went to the chiro on Thursday
yesterday (saturday) was AWFUL...my back was killing me, baby was up high in my right ribs, I was all around miserable physically and emotionally.
About 10 pm as I was trying to go to sleep, I got a big kick and flip maybe. that's what it felt like, a flip, but I am scared it is just wishful thinking.
Today, she has been much less active (but still moving about), lower down under my ribs and more to the left.
What do you think?
I am supposed to go back to the chiro tomorrow (weather permitting...lots of snow here) but my NST/OB appt isn't til Thursday.
I'm slightly concerned about her decreasse in movement, but hate to be a nilly, lol
Any updates Mama?
post #15 of 32
Thread Starter 
yeah...2 blizzards in the last week have canceled everything, so I'm still just wondering where she is.
I can't believe I am so unsure of things with her...I mean she is my fifth pregnancy and I can't even tell if I'm feeling hiccups or not....I think they were low between my legs the other night, but last night they were to the left of my belly button, so I have no idea anymore!
Anyway, i hope to get into the doc tomorrow or monday (before more snow is predicted for monday night )
post #16 of 32
My 7 week old baby was breech throughout most of my pregnancy. She felt very large in my belly, her head in my ribs caused a lot of pain and it felt very different from my previous pregnancies. I saw my usual CNM for this pregnancy from 18 weeks on. She caught our 3 other babies at home. I did all the spinningbabies.com stuff, tried pulsatilla, did acupuncture, moxibustion, the Webster technique and pelvic tilts, etc at home.

I had polyhydramnios with this baby like I did with all previous babies. AFI was 26 at 34 weeks. I was also on heparin twice a day because of three losses prior to conceiving this baby. We had u/s confirmation that she was vertex at 36 weeks but off to one side. We thought she would settle in properly. My 4th homebirth was on!

I went into labor at 37w6d and she was head down. Labored to 7 cm and cervical check revealed she was in an undeliverable face presentation. We had to the hospital. I was listening to her heartbeat in the car with my Doppler and lost it 5 minutes into the trip. I could feel her moving but never got her heartbeat back on the Doppler. Once we got to the hospital, u/s showed she had turned breech. Frank breech.

The back-up OB for my midwife does not do vaginal breech births. I am in North Texas and very active in the homebirth community here. There is *one* OB in this large metropolitan area who does vaginal breech births. One. And he is not my midwife's back-up. My labor was dysfunctional and completely arrested once she turned breech. I could not have pushed her out in that situation with no contractions and reversed dilation. I had no choices unless you consider checking out of the hospital at (now) 6cm -4 station with ruptured membranes x 6 hours to find a CPM who would agree to deliver me at home. The c-section was my only option.

I did not like the c-section but it was not terrible either. I suffered through three consecutive miscarriages prior to conceiving this baby and my anxiety level was very high. I had been in labor over 24 hours and I was emotionally exhausted. Was I tricked or coerced into the section? Nope. It is what needed to happen. She was only 8 pounds. My babies were 8.14, 8.15 and 9.9 so I have a very tried and successful pelvis. This birth just wasn't meant to be vaginal and I can live with that. I did all I could do to ensure that she was in a good position to be born vaginally. She never liked being head down. Once we got her head down, she was in another malpresentation! I just have to accept that the c-section was the best way to get her from there to here.

And she is here. In my arms nursing as I type with one finger on my phone. The c-section would have been my "worst case scenario" a few years ago. Now, I know that there are scenarios much, much worse. After my losses, I feared I would never hold another baby of mine again. I am not saying I just lined up for a section. No one guilted or scared me into it. It is just the way the stars lined up for me this time. I am no less a mother, no less a birthing woman, no less a homebirth advocate because my baby was born surgically.

I hope your sweet baby turns and you have a peaceful, gentle birth for your precious rainbow baby. If baby does not turn, I hope you are able to make choices that empower you to birth your baby in the way that is best for you and your unique situation.

Amy


I have never
post #17 of 32
Thread Starter 
thank you for sharing that. I really enjoyed reading it.
I am on Lovenox at the moment for a blood clot in my last pregnancy. I will probably switch to Heparin at 36 weeks.
I am by all means a do what needs to be done kinda gal, and even more of the err on the side of safety than I was before having a stillbirth. I am trying not to worry much about the whole Breech thing just yet and even still, like you said, it is what it is, how it's meant to be. I won't push it too hard (I firmly believe she has a reason for not being head down and it could very well be self preservation after what happened to her sister) I haven't scheduled an induction or a section yet. I will also wait until the last minute to make any of those decisions. I've learned the hard way that I can't control much so might as well let be what is meant to be.
thank you again for sharing your story. Congrats on your nursling
post #18 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mom to E and A View Post
yeah...2 blizzards in the last week have canceled everything, so I'm still just wondering where she is.
I can't believe I am so unsure of things with her...I mean she is my fifth pregnancy and I can't even tell if I'm feeling hiccups or not....I think they were low between my legs the other night, but last night they were to the left of my belly button, so I have no idea anymore!
Anyway, i hope to get into the doc tomorrow or monday (before more snow is predicted for monday night )
Wowza, 2 blizzards!
So sorry things are out of sorts now.
Please keep us posted.
post #19 of 32
My first two births were caesarian for frank breech. I was 'not allowed to labour' because then I'd be risking causing my babies 'death', according to the OB who straight-out, boldly lied to my face as she pretended to read the study that proved the 'near-criminal risk' involved in labouring with a frank breech baby.

Btw, my friend and midwife who was required to transfer my care did find a copy of the study after ds2 was born and it pertained to prematurity risk (less than 34 weeks gestation) for breech babies with genetic abnormalities, not healthy, potentially full-term babies who happen to be frank breech, like mine. I had no risk factors whatsoever.

My birth stories for these first two babies involve no labours, near death for me and one of my babes (due exclusively to the c/s) and for me, years of pain and health decline again to near death because of these 'safer' alternatives to labouring and vaginal birth with breech babies. Midwives in that region were required to transfer care of breeches once the pg was at 36 weeks (mine was dated by U/S at what they thought was 18 wks because I had been on bcp when he was conceived and had no idea for months since my period kept coming like normal-- obviously this dating was dubious at best, but nobody told me that and I didn't know enough to ask the right questions, let alone take the time to research when I was working FT, and falling asleep at my desk until I took leave so I could do that on my couch all day...). No OBs would 'do' vaginal births of breech babies there either. Sick.

The reality is that an hcp who is properly trained to 'deal with' breech birth will be the one who stands back, and does not in any way interfere with the labouring woman or the baby. S/he is the one who does NOT even suggest drugs (but does confidently discourage their use because they interfere with labour and that is NOT what you want for breech presentation even if you would be fine with it otherwise), does NOT insist on any pushing, or positioning at all, but simply stays out of the way and waits. The most professionally qualified hcp will be the one who does nothing. Absolutely nothing. "Hands Off" is the proper 'protocol' for breech birth and any hcp who tells you differently is either ignorant or lying to you (and neither makes an acceptable caregiver imo).

Please do your research.

It turned out that the right side of my pelvis was in a locked position (likely from 4 yrs of commuting 3+ hrs/day) and it took a lot of chiro and massage to unlock it, at which point, the baby then in my belly (ds3) turned head down and stayed there. Ds4 was never breech and I kept my pelvis loose by using an exercise ball for a chair and squatting to 'sit'. There are many reasons for breech position, one of which is that it is more comfortable for the baby not to have a hard bone pressing on his head, as in my case. I needed a chiro, not 2 caesarian sections.

Assume there is a reason the baby chooses to be in this position, and then instead of fighting it or considering it somehow a deficiency or abnormality, recognise it as the particular variation of birth you may experience and do what you can to assure that the baby is in his/her optimal position (chiro, exercises, etc...). Breech may be optimal for your baby.

My pelvis, allowed to go to full term may have unlocked itself (both babes were taken early to 'lessen the risk of labour'...) with relaxin or the natural movements of labour that I would have otherwise experienced and did with subsequent births. They were taken at 34 weeks ( a BIG oops by the OB This relates to the abovementioned dating U/S at supposed 18 weeks) and 39 weeks, respectively. My subsequent pgs were 44+2 and 42+3 from conception, so they were taken very early for my normal gestation time.

I am disgusted with the climate of hosital birth in general and the rate of c/s. Women coerced into it, all the while thinking they are making informed decisions for the benefit of their babies, can choose to step up and take on the role they assumed when they became pg. We are mothers, and the second act of motherhood is empowering ourselves to choose our circumstances for the peaceful and healthy births of our children. The first is empowering ourselves to nurture our growing babies in preparation for birth during pregnancy.

I'm happy that you've been able to schedule chiro and I hope that your birth is wonderful for you.
post #20 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by summerforever1977 View Post
That is really not fair. If a hospital does not have available a doctor/midwife who is trained and experienced with breech delivery than they will NOT perform the birth. The mother will walk out of the hospital in the worst case scenario, essentially refusing treatment.
This is not true, although I'm not saying it will be a walk in the park. My friend had a breech presentation and transferred. She had to be mean and strong, refusing a c-section but she definitely birthed her baby breech and with a short cord (the primary reason for transfer was the cord).

To the OP: dig around online and look at your options. If your little one doesn't turn, you have several options to go through, such as manual turning, exercises, chiropractic, etc before settling on a breech birth. And on top of that, your baby can turn at any time.
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