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Breech...tell me about it...updated - Page 2

post #21 of 32
The hospital can and might get a judge involved for a court order to section if they felt strongly enough about the breech and you really don't want to be birthing by court order.


In any case, I was my mother's second, and was breech until 38 weeks. She actually felt ambivalent about my flipping because her first had been a section for FTP and while she was determined to try a VBAC, her doctors were trying very hard to frighten her out of it. (Among other things, they told her a trial of labor couldn't safely last more than 3 hours and after 3 hours of labor they would automatically section again becuase of the tremendous risk of rupture. So after the 3 hour mark she was ready for surgery and basically waiting for her uterus to rupture for another 9 hours because of scheduling issues. I and my next four siblings were all sections.)
post #22 of 32
I'm a first timer, and I'm only 21 weeks, so I don't know too much about this. However, I do know that chiropractors trained in the Webster tech. can turn breech babies... something you might want to look into.
post #23 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dov'sMom View Post
The hospital can and might get a judge involved for a court order to section if they felt strongly enough about the breech and you really don't want to be birthing by court order.
In your state do the courts have jurisdiction over unborn children? That's freaked out if they do. Imagine; they could order you to eat a specified number of eggs per day, walk a specified number of kms per day, etc..., for the sake of the health and well-being of the unborn baby. There would then be no end to the controls that could legally be placed on women of child-bearing age/capacity. This is a major reason why many western governments stay away from such court rulings and legislation. It is a very, very slippery slope.

I would move from such a place, personally, if that is the case. At the very least, if I couldn't move, I'd have an unexpectedly fast labour and UC.
post #24 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dov'sMom View Post
The hospital can and might get a judge involved for a court order to section if they felt strongly enough about the breech and you really don't want to be birthing by court order.


.)
I would be very interested in hearing about a single case where this actually occured.
I know this could not happen in my jurisdiction.
post #25 of 32
Thread Starter 
Sigh, she is still breech (although I really do think she turned at one point and must have turned back)
An U/S showed that I also have polyhydramnios (HIGH amniotic fluid), so just another "diagnosis" to add to my list of worries.
I am 35 weeks (only 1 away from the week I lost Elise last year) and I am a mess.
I am not dead set against a section. I believe there is a reason Ella is breech and after what happened with Elise I am not willing to take any extrodinary chances, so a section will be scheduled for 39 weeks unless she turns. Not my first choice, but not the end of the world either.
I just want my baby out ALIVE! I always thought the best place for her is in the womb, but I'm starting to wonder how safe my womb is and if maybe she would be better off out here...
post #26 of 32
I didn't read all the other posts in details, so I am sorry for that. I have had two UC babies that were breech(separate births, not twins). I had great experiences with all of my births, but they were all UCs, so I can't speak for the other options, personally. I didn't find them that much more difficult, except for the back labor, and inability to push when I felt the urge.
post #27 of 32
I'm sorry she's still breech, it's really stressful sometimes. But if she turned once, she can turn again, so there's hope! And even though polyhydramnios sounds scary, hopefully it's normal for you, and it should make turning easier - much more so than if you had low fluid. Anyway, I think they have lots of trouble measuring fluid levels accurately.

I'm sorry about your prior loss. That does make everything much more difficult in your next pregnancy. Hang in there.
post #28 of 32
Thread Starter 
Thank you for your kind words of encouragement, hapersmion

NST today showed her VERTEX! Also showed her fluid level down to a normal level.
Now, i know all this can change too, but I'll take it for now
I go back every Monday for OB appts and NSTs every Mon and Thurs.
Fingers crossed she stays down...any thoughts on how to encourage her NOT to go back breech?
post #29 of 32
Yay, congratulations! Stay head down, baby!

You could do squats and that sort of thing, to encourage engagement, that might discourage turning.
post #30 of 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanguine_speed View Post
I would be very interested in hearing about a single case where this actually occured.
I know this could not happen in my jurisdiction.


http://radicaldoula.com/2010/01/13/w...and-c-section/

http://www.aclu.org/reproductive-fre...rton-v-florida

Quote:
There are several examples of court-ordered obstetrical interventions—usually cesarean sections—where a woman’s fundamental right to determine what happens to her own body is blatantly disregarded. Even more disturbing, a large percentage of physicians and lawyers support forcing procedures on pregnant women despite their expressed refusal. A 1987 study in the New England Journal of Medicine surveyed heads of maternal-fetal medicine department. 46% of the respondents supported court-ordered obstetrical interventions. A 2007 study of attendees at the annual meetings of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists and the American Health Lawyers Association found that “51% described themselves as highly likely to support a court order.”
Quote:
The following story from Dr. Marsden Wagner’s new book, Born in the USA, illustrates the degree to which fundamental human rights are now at stake in the realm of maternity care. (Dr. Wagner was contacted by the family and their lawyers, reviewed the case, and followed the progress of the litigation to its end.)

A woman in northern Florida we will call Ms. P had a normal vaginal birth with her first pregnancy. Her second birth, however, ended with a C-section that she believed was unnecessary, so when she got pregnant a third time, she sought a local midwife and signed on for a planned home birth.

Ms. P had a normal pregnancy, and when she went into labor, her mid*wife came to her home to attend the birth. The labor progressed nicely, but after some hours Ms. P was having a hard time keeping fluids down. Since the local hospital was only a couple of blocks away, her midwife suggested that they go over to the emergency room for a short time to get an intra*venous drip (IV) to hydrate her, and then return home.

In the ER, Ms. P told the staff that she was giving birth at home and would like an IV for a short time. She was put in a room and told to wait for a doctor. When the doctor arrived, he asked if she had had a previous C-section, and when she replied yes, the doctor said that he wanted to admit her for an immediate C-section. Ms. P said, "No thank you, I just want the IV, and then I'm going home." The doctor became adamant, telling her that she "must" have a C-section, and said that he would con*sent to give her the IV only if she consented to the C-section. When she refused his attempt to coerce her, the doctor said that if she did not con*sent to the C-section, the hospital would get a court order to do the C-section. The doctor then asked her to wait, and left the room.

As is typical in any hospital, word of what was going on in the ER spread among the staff. After a few minutes, a nurse ducked into the room where Ms. P was waiting and whispered, "If you don't want to have a cesarean sec*tion by force, you better get out of here quick. There is a back entrance to the ER if you go out and turn right."

Ms. P escaped by the back entrance and went home, where she contin*ued her labor without the benefit of an IV. (Note that the hospital never offered Ms. P the option of having a vaginal birth in the hospital with a staff doctor handy.)

Meanwhile, the chief of obstetrics called an emergency meeting with the hospital administrator and told him that the woman's baby was in grave danger of dying due to a ruptured uterus if an emergency C-section was not done quickly. What he said is not true. Studies have shown that Ms. P's C-section meant that she had a slightly higher chance of uterine rupture than a woman who had never had a cesarean, but the risk was still small—espe*cially since labor was not being induced with drugs—and the chance that the baby would die was even smaller. The hospital administrator, however, was not an obstetrician and had no idea whether or not the information was accurate. He called a local judge and told him to rush over, as it was a life-and-death situation. The judge came to the hospital and was told the same story by the obstetrician. He signed a court order for an immediate C-section—by force, if necessary.

Ms. P was continuing her labor at home when there was a knock on the door. She opened the door to the local sheriff, who was a friend of hers and a member of her church. The sheriff said, "I'm really terribly sorry, Ms. P, but I have here a warrant for your arrest." Shocked, Ms. P said, "What on earth for?" The sheriff answered, "I'm terribly sorry. I don't know what the hell is going on. My orders are to take you to the hospital, in handcuffs if necessary."

Against her wishes and the repeated objections of her husband, Ms. P was taken to the hospital, taken to the surgery ward, tied down on an operating table, and given a forced C-section. The story doesn't end here. Ms. P and her husband sued the doctors and the hospital. However, in Florida a judge must decide if a case deserves to go to trial, and another local judge decided that Ms. P's case was not worthy of proceeding, so her case never went to trial—a shocking miscarriage of justice, given the serious violation of Ms. P's basic rights. Since then, Ms. P has had another baby, born vaginally at home with no problems. Needless to say, there was no visit to the hospital during the labor.

It is important that women in this country become aware of the danger to birthing women and join the movement to protect them. Ms. P's fam*ily's wishes were not honored, and her body was invaded against her will. Her human rights were violated.... Treating pregnant women in this manner goes against the Nuremberg Code and the Helsinki Accord, which explicitly state an individual has absolute rights over her or his own body and no medical treat*ment can ever be forced. Cases like this indicate a dangerous trend in U.S. maternity care toward totalitarian control of a woman's reproductive life by doctors.
http://rixarixa.blogspot.com/2007/06...ond-class.html

If you have never read it, "Pushed" By Jennifer Block is an amazing book
post #31 of 32
Sucks to live in a country with those types of 'human rights'. Thankfully, I don't.
post #32 of 32
So glad she is head down Mama! Here is hoping she stays that way.

Just wanted to add my experience w. breech. My 5th baby (2nd DD) was still breech at 39 weeks inspite of all I had done (chiro, pulsatilla, moxi, tilt board, icepacks, flashlight, positive imaging, talking to her, etc etc). She was our second planned UC and I agreed, a bit reluctantly, mostly due to "others" "suggetions" to have an ECV done. It was successful and she stayed put arriving 6 days later. Upon her birth I discovered the reason for her being breech: she had a very short cord, as well as being a small girl at 6lbs even. I think she was most comfortable being breech, and being small still had plenty of room even at full term. Part of me does regret the version, as I am sure I could have birthed her fine if she had chosen to remain in frank breech.

Here's hoping she stays put for you, but if not, is there some reason why an ECV couldnt be tried 1st b4 they schedule you for a c/s? ECV can even be done in early labor with success, although you will get few docs or CNM's who are willing, but it is an option. Please remember: You are always free to decline ANY procedure, even a c/s, and you can not be forced into having one (if there are some places where this is happening, then we are even more socialist than I thought, but I'll digress there...) the hospital can not refuse you care, or throw you out on your arse, even if you refuse every proceudre they try to throw at you. Makes for a very stressful environment, but agressive advocation has it's place. It is your body, your baby, your choice.
Best of Luck!
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