Penn and Teller on Circumcision (Adult content. BE WARNED!!!)

[objet_trouve]

Have any of you seen the Penn and Teller BS episode on circumcision? If you don't mind a ton of language and objectionable content (very graphic images and subject matter, Penn is VERY anti-religion), I REALLY recommend it. It was what originally helped me decide whether I would or not (not on my life).

Again, PLEASE don't watch if you are of a nervous disposition! I really don't want anyone offended, I'm just happy to see it being talked about.

(I'm new here and REALLY hope I'm ok posting links to videos)
(part 1) http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=104250728054
(part 2) http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=104256948054
(part 3) http://www.facebook.com/video/video....v=104258688054

(The nudity at the end is all blurred btw)

[Fujiko]

This was actually the thing that got DH to agree to not circumcise. I recommend it!

[objet_trouve]

Mine too! He loves the show. They use that "man language" that he and I both really get. I wish they'd do vaccinations.

It got us talking you know? Pretty early on in our relationship too. Honestly, I think watching this stuff helped us really learn to communicate.

Edit: Never mind, looks like they're looking into doing an episode on vaccines, but it looks like they'll be on the pro side. Still sounds interesting, as I'm still working out my beliefs on them. I've disagreed with them before (hypnosis, death penalty, most new age stuff), so I'd love to just hear someone actually defend the pro vaccines side, as I actually can't seem to find much of that, which is part of why I lean toward the against side. Anyway, back to circumcision.

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by objet_trouve

Mine too! He loves the show. They use that "man language" that he and I both really get. I wish they'd do vaccinations.

It got us talking you know? Pretty early on in our relationship too. Honestly, I think watching this stuff helped us really learn to communicate.

Edit: Never mind, looks like they're looking into doing an episode on vaccines, but it looks like they'll be on the pro side. Still sounds interesting, as I'm still working out my beliefs on them. I've disagreed with them before (hypnosis, death penalty, most new age stuff), so I'd love to just hear someone actually defend the pro vaccines side, as I actually can't seem to find much of that, which is part of why I lean toward the against side. Anyway, back to circumcision.

That is a favorite episode around here. They really do a good job pulling apart circumcision. Penn did a follow up bit on his website after someone sent him some letters about the potential HIV/STD stuff. He still called them out on it and said it was BS.

I haven't disagreed with them on much.

[objet_trouve]

Me neither. I think it's good that I can find something I disagree on. Even in the ones I did disagree with I felt they had good arguments (hypnosis for example. I dated a hypnotist, and acted as his assistant for his stage shows. Most hypnotists are scams, my ex and I learned, and it seems Penn found those cases more than he found something like ours. I'd love to show him the huge fetish community, I think he'd understand a bit better. But for the most part, I did agree with him).

I'll look for that follow up. Sounds great!

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by objet_trouve

I'll look for that follow up. Sounds great!

The follow up is already available. It was on their website or something and only about 5 minutes long.

[LilMama23]

This episode was awesome - it was the deciding factor in convincing my DH not to circ; he loves this show.

[Arduinna]

I'll say it again, I really don't know why this show is so popular. They ignored the most imporant and compelling reasons. I remember when it first aired I thought the whole show was basically stupid. And I'm vehemently anti circ to the point that I think it should be illegal.

[jessjgh1]

Arduinna- what did they leave out? I thought they covered most of the reasons or their guests did.
I like it, but wouldn't recommend it to a family that wouldn't get the humor. I think it could really have a worse response if the family was insulted by the style of humor.

Jessica

[Fellow Traveler]

Originally Posted by Arduinna

I'll say it again, I really don't know why this show is so popular. They ignored the most imporant and compelling reasons. I remember when it first aired I thought the whole show was basically stupid. And I'm vehemently anti circ to the point that I think it should be illegal.

Just out of curiosity what important and compelling reasons do you think they ignored? I think it is so popular because of the crass style of presentation, the shock value. It's like Howard Stern.

[lovebug]

i am going to save this to show DH

[KGB]

I love Penn & Teller's BS. I love their humor, their presentation, their straightforward-ness, and especially their PASSION.

Although they are known to occasionally be unfairly biased on that show, that episode basically summed up everything I believe in and feel *vehemently* about and they present it so well that I don't have to struggle with convincing people. I can simply say, "Watch this episode and learn, young grasshopper"

[tammylsmith]

I previewed it, hoping to show it to dh. My main problem with it was that the intact guy (in the deciding couple) talks about being made fun of in high school, and then they never touch on and refute the subject of "he'll get made fun of in the locker room." That is my dh's main problem with leaving our upcoming ds intact (though our discussions are becoming more and more civil and I can see he is wavering in his resolve big time. We have 2 months to go. I'm confident he will agree with me by the end). Since that particular topic is just touched on, never revisited and not refuted anywhere in the show, it worries me that it will actually reinforce dh's problem. He needs to see examples of intact men who are confident and did not have any problems fitting in with their peers in high school/jr high. I also wonder what the couple actually decided in the end!

[MyBoysBlue]

The numbers in the US are almost 50/50 so any intact boy being teased for being intact will have some back up. Besides what if your son's ears stick out, like my sisters? What about if he has a big nose, like my DH? Does he want those features altered to fit in?

I think they didn't go into this issue as there were many other more important issues to fit into the episode and this one is easy to refute.

[Night_Nurse]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

I previewed it, hoping to show it to dh. My main problem with it was that the intact guy (in the deciding couple) talks about being made fun of in high school, and then they never touch on and refute the subject of "he'll get made fun of in the locker room." That is my dh's main problem with leaving our upcoming ds intact (though our discussions are becoming more and more civil and I can see he is wavering in his resolve big time. We have 2 months to go. I'm confident he will agree with me by the end). Since that particular topic is just touched on, never revisited and not refuted anywhere in the show, it worries me that it will actually reinforce dh's problem. He needs to see examples of intact men who are confident and did not have any problems fitting in with their peers in high school/jr high. I also wonder what the couple actually decided in the end!

Chances are high the man in the P&T episode was the only, or one of the few, intact guys in his school. With children nowdays, even in areas where the rates of circ/intact aren't 50/50, more boys are intact and it's unlikely your son will be the only one. Even if you live where the circ rate is 70%, 3 out of 10 will be intact and unlikely be made fun of. In addition, I've heard that fewer schools require showers after gym (mine never did and that was ages ago). So when would other boys even see or notice your son is intact? They'd be far more likely to tease about something outwardly noticeable, like hair color, height, weight, etc (which they shouldn't tease about anyway but sometimes do - teasing is a sad reality of childhood sometimes).

[KGB]

Originally Posted by tammylsmith

He needs to see examples of intact men who are confident and did not have any problems fitting in with their peers in high school/jr high.

I'm an intact man. I've never been teased about my penis. Most kids are shy about being naked in general anyway, and in school, I never got completely undressed if I could help it. The hard truth is guys don't stand around locker rooms comparing penises. It just doesn't happen. Most guys try very hard NOT to look at other guys' penises for obvious reasons. Even if a circ'd guy accidently sees an uncirc'd guy, he doesn't start saying, "Haha! You're intact! Nah nah nah!" Even if he did, you could counter with, "Why were you staring at my penis? Are you trying to tell me something?"

It's a non-issue. Your DH needs to get over it. And that "he'll be made fun of" excuse really needs to be blown into oblivion.

[K703]

Originally Posted by KGB

I'm an intact man. I've never been teased about my penis. Most kids are shy about being naked in general anyway, and in school, I never got completely undressed if I could help it. The hard truth is guys don't stand around locker rooms comparing penises. It just doesn't happen. Most guys try very hard NOT to look at other guys' penises for obvious reasons. Even if a circ'd guy accidently sees an uncirc'd guy, he doesn't start saying, "Haha! You're intact! Nah nah nah!" Even if he did, you could counter with, "Why were you staring at my penis? Are you trying to tell me something?"

It's a non-issue. Your DH needs to get over it. And that "he'll be made fun of" excuse really needs to be blown into oblivion.

[objet_trouve]

I got made fun of for my name. We didn't change it. My brother got made fun of for having a big head, we didn't chop it off, or put a bag over it. My husband got made of for seemingly no reason, he was just quiet and they thought he'd take it (he lost it one day, beat up the bully, and never got made fun of again).

I have friends who were made fun of for being Jewish, mormon, christian, atheist, gay, short, fat, tall, skinny, playing video games, and I even knew one kid in high school who got beat up for doing hard drugs. I knew a Filipino boy who got told to "go back to Iraq" and was accused of being a terrorist after 9/11 because of his skin tone. I also used to know a guy who was actually from the middle east, complete with what could be considered a "terrorist sounding name", who didn't get harrassed at all! I knew a 13 year old girl who absolutely looked like a model, and got sexually harrassed to the point of having to change schools.

I have a forum on a site for teens where I try to give kids advice. The bullying thread hit 70 posts a while back. These kids got made of for long hair, short hair, skinnies, baggy jeans, listening to My Chemical Romance, listening to Metallica, freckles, blond hair, using lot of eyeliner (just as many girls as boys got made fun of for that), having glasses, losing a contact lens, crying, NOT crying, and in one case, not spray painting gang slogans on his back pack (this happened not an hour from my own house).

Three kids in Mexico got beaten to death by a group of over a hundred people for calling themselves "emo". Then again, I know lots of emokids who have never been made fun of at all. On the internet, some kids started something called emokid beatdown day,where they beat up anyone who looked like this: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_D4zhCZoiy-...mo-haircut.jpg That day, I had two friends get jumped. One of them showed up at my house with a cracked rib and several broken fingers, and he was very confused, because he's a metal fan, and doesn't even look emo. The other (who is emo) showed up an hour later, with a busted lip and a smile on his face. He had been trained in taekwondo, and beat up all five guys who jumped him.

Kids get made fun of all the time, for everything, or for no real reason at all. A lot of bullies will pick as their targets someone who they just don't think will fight against the bullying, not for what they are or what they look like. I knew a kid who beat up gay guys, but was close friends with a gay guy (he no longer bullies anyone, thanks to his friend teaching him why he shouldn't). There are lots of ways to deal with it, teaching kids self defense, teaching them to always be open and honest with you, but for the most part, there is no definitive way to prevent or dealing with bullying except over-protection, which has a host of other problems that come with that.

Bullying is something all kids will have to learn to handle. Other kids can be cruel, annoying or even violent, as can adults. Do your best by finding a good school, a good neighborhood and help your kid learn what to do when attacked.

But the last thing you want to do is teach your kid it's not ok to be different, or that conformity is the answer. My parents tried to instill in me that it's good to be different, and that I should be proud of who I am. As an adult, I found this attitude very valuable.

[tammylsmith]

I should add that my poor, circumcised dh was teased terribly in 7th and 8th grade and it had nothing to do with anything except a nervous tremor he gets in his hands when speaking in front of a group (he still does). That is my point too. Kids can be cruel. The only way to combat this is to do your best to raise a confident child, and there is still no guarantee. Circumcising ds (due in 2 months, yeah!) won't solve that. DH is doing his own research on the topic, and I think he is slowly realizing that it truly was an unnecessary thing that done to him. He's just caught up on us being the "only ones" but obviously and statistically that is not true. Neither of us has a clue of the status of the penises of our friends or their children, as it should be. Who cares? It's between each man and his own privates . He might not be an intactivist any time soon, but I can tell by our conversations that he is already changing his mind, and I haven't even had to pull out the circ video yet (thank g-d. don't think I can watch one without being sick!) I thought the Penn and Teller video was funny, but the humor wouldn't work for my dh as much, just my opinion.

[Arduinna]

Originally Posted by Fellow Traveler

Just out of curiosity what important and compelling reasons do you think they ignored? I think it is so popular because of the crass style of presentation, the shock value. It's like Howard Stern.

I saw it 5 years ago when it originally aired. I can't remember the specifics anymore, just my general feeling.