The Agrarian TFers Tribe

[rhiandmoi]

If you're a TFer and you follow more closely the Agrarian lifestyle of grain cultivation, storage and eating in addition to eating wholesome meats and healthy fats, this is the place for you. Whether you soak, sprout, or even use processed grains - this is a TF place for you.

This can be a home to post recipes, present challenges, ask each other questions, and enjoy the camaraderie of all our Agrarian MDCers.

We can also collect resources, and tips here to share with other Agrarians.

[rhiandmoi]

Resources and References

References:

Be Kind to Your Grains, and Your Grains Will be Kind to You
How to Soak and Cook Grains
A new way to soak brown rice


Recipes:

Quinoa Pudding
Millet Porridge
Millet Stuffed Peppers
Kamut Beet and Orange Salad
Kamut and Wild Rice Salad
Kamut, Lentil and Chickpea Soup
Idlis

[rhiandmoi]

Intro:

Name: Rhiannon
What I'm soaking or sprouting at the moment: Getting ready to soak some Oat Groats. I'm interested in cooking them in chicken stock to make a savory porridge
Current favorite way to eat grains: There is a Chinese savory rice porridge called jook or congee. The other day I made this with half pearl barley and half white rice, and it was delicious. So I'm going to try it with more whole grains and see what happens. I prefer the savory porridge over the sweet.

[bobandjess99]

I guess I'm here. To be honest, I'm still not doing great with the grains, but since we're definitely a grain-eating TF family, this is the best tribe for us, I think. We're eating a healthier, more traditionally prepared fresh baked bread that we buy from a bakery instead of store-bough white bread, lol. And I am going to start soaking our oats soon. We have switched to using quinoa and rice in place of always using noodles, as well as rice and quinoa/corn pasta, but also still use some wheat pasta. I'm looking forwrd to learning lots here!

What can you use to soak oats in when 1 child can't have milk/yogurt/whey? I've seen lemon juice mentuioned, but also a lot ofreports of the oats then tasting like lemons/bitter/sour, and that wouldn't fly here.

[Koalamom]

I'm here! We love our grains even though we are gluten free. And we feel good with them too. But I believe that grains should go with other foods as a well rounded meal.

[rhiandmoi]

I think you only need a tiny bit of lemon in the soak water. The pH of yogurt is around 4.5, so maybe 1 tsp per quart lemon juice? You might want to get some pH papers from the pharmacy and do some experiments. Like dilute lemon juice in water, test the pH and then taste the water. Another thing to consider is using Meyer Lemon juice, instead of the traditional Lisbon or Eureka Lemons. Meyer lemons have a much sweeter flavor and a thinner darker skin and are more round shaped, they actually kind of look like a dark yellow lime vs the football shaped more sour Lisbon and Eureka lemons. I have a big bottle of Meyer Lemon juice that I got from Costco. Maybe someone who has tried this will stop by.

[LauraLoo]

I'm here!
Right now I'm into making fermented breads. I'd really love to do sourdough, but I just can't keep the starter going. It's too much work for me.


As far as soaking oats, I've reading that soaking with wheat flour (1 - 2 Tbs) also helps with the phytic acid. You could also use ACV. I use whey and wheat flour when soaking, but I've used lemon juice or ACV in the past. I can't taste any difference once I add fruit, butter and milk to the oatmeal.

[Magelet]

I'll put it this way, I use 1-2 Tbs ACV for 6-8 QUARTS of dry oatmeal. For a couple cups? I'd use maybe a tsp, maybe 1/2 a tsp. lemon juice or apple cider vinegar It doesn't need to be very acidic, just slightly acidic. (fwiw, I'm not sure I'd let it ferment for days and days with the lemon juice like I do with yogurt or buttermilk, but if you used preserved lemon brine instead of lemon juice it would probably work well. it might be fine though, as there are plenty of grain batters I'd let ferment for a while with just acid or salt...)

Hey. I most definitely belong here. We love grains!! (growing up, my sister was what we called a "carbavore" and I ate a LOT of carbs. I do better with preparation and not so much carb-o-loading, however I love love love my grains.) I'm still learning to prepare grains the best, however, I've been doing some stuff like soaking oatmeal for a while now.

(Can I just mention that oatmeal gets best after a good soak of 4-5 days at room temp with a spoonful of yogurt, then 2 weeks in the fridge? it's wonderfully tangy and amazing!!!)

I really want to explore more highly fermented grains, like farinata, and other things, not sure what.

[gardenmommy]

...subbing...

[ursusarctos]

Excellent, I totally belong here! I love grains and feel that they are good for me. They also provide wonderfully cheap nutrition in our limited budget, so we are able to afford good quality animal products when we get them. And I'm having a lot of fun learning more ways to prepare them all the time.

What I'm soaking or sprouting at the moment: Not soaking anything right this minute, but just ate soaked rye porridge for breakfast. Rye flakes soaked like oatmeal overnight, then whisked into boiling salted water and cooked till thick, served with butter and/or milk and/or lingonberry preserves. Yum! I find that rye keeps me full and my blood sugar feeling stable whereas oats do not for some reason... Rye will keep me all morning but if I eat oatmeal I am hungry a few minutes later. No idea why!
Current favorite way to eat grains: Just one? Probably the no-knead bread that I make less often than I should. Lately I've been making it with 2/3 barley and 1/3 unbleached wheat and it's been turning out really chewy and delicious.

Rhiannon, cool about the jook! My mom studies TCM and said she's going to send me a book about jook, apparently there are endless variations. Now I'm all excited since you say it's so good

[Koalamom]

Originally Posted by LauraLoo

I'm here!
Right now I'm into making fermented breads. I'd really love to do sourdough, but I just can't keep the starter going. It's too much work for me.

What is so difficult to keep going? When I was eating Gluten, I would make bread once a week and feed my starter then and them put it back in the fridge till next use. It made great bread every time.

[tanyalynn]

I've got two cool (to me ) resources to share....

Idlis!
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...-ix-idlis.html

They're fermented rice and lentil dumplings, basically. They're naturally gluten free, which we need, and they're bread-like for the kids. I use a 50-50 rice/lentil mix, and whiz the soaked rice and lentils forever in the food processor. I've done them baked in muffin tins and that worked, but I do like steamed better--but a 4-tier idli steamer was only $10 at an Indian grocery store.

Also... http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.co...rown-rice.html here's a way to soak brown rice w/o whey or anything else that breaks down 96% of the phytic acid--good enough in my book! I'm starting to try the same thing with lentils for lentil soup, the principle of saving a portion of the soaking water for the next batch, to basically inoculate the soak liquid with bacteria, seems transferable to other grains/legumes.

I'm sort of straddling both worlds--I think DH will do best grain-free and moderately low-carb, so our breakfasts and dinners are like that, but I think the kids and I are okay with moderate amounts of properly prepared legumes and grains, so lentil soup with soaked lentils and homemade stock and bacon make wonderful lunches, and idlis make the kids very happy and are portable.

[rhiandmoi]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos

Rhiannon, cool about the jook! My mom studies TCM and said she's going to send me a book about jook, apparently there are endless variations. Now I'm all excited since you say it's so good

To be honest it took me about 27 years to like it. I used to really not like it, I think mostly because a lot of people don't use a flavorful enough stock when they make it. Ever since I started making it myself, it is a lot better. I also simmer at a slightly higher temp to reduce the broth after the rice blooms. And sometimes it still comes out really bland, and then I mix in some hot sauce. Sometimes if I make a rice pilaf for dinner and I have some left over, I'll thow that in the pot too and make it really yummy.

[AJP]

Originally Posted by ursusarctos

I find that rye keeps me full and my blood sugar feeling stable whereas oats do not for some reason... Rye will keep me all morning but if I eat oatmeal I am hungry a few minutes later. No idea why!
Current favorite way to eat grains: Just one? Probably the no-knead bread that I make less often than I should. Lately I've been making it with 2/3 barley and 1/3 unbleached wheat and it's been turning out really chewy and delicious.

Oats don't stick with me, either. It usually feels like I might as well not have eaten, and lately (the last couple of years), I really don't enjoy the flavor of soaked oats at all. I used to like it, but no more, and it feels really heavy and sour in my stomach. I don't have that reaction with other grains, soaked or not, although I do need some more concentrated protein along with grains in order to not feel hungry before it's time for the next meal (no matter how much fat I have with the grains). I haven't tried barley porridge, but we do eat rice porridge regularly. I'll have to try making no-knead bread with barley, that sounds really good.

I love grains as part of my meals, and with the exception of oats I haven't felt any negative reaction to eating any whole grain, nor have I detected any in my family, whether the grain has been soaked or sprouted or not. Refined grains can make me feel tired and/or bloated shortly after eating them if I eat too much (like refined-flour pasta or white rice), but not whole grains.

[tanyalynn]

I've made congee a few times, both rice and quinoa (separate batches). To me, it seems like the other flavorings that you put in are key. I like ginger and salt, and some thin slices of green onions after it's in a bowl. I'm sure there are other tasty things to do, I just haven't run across them yet.

[LauraLoo]

Originally Posted by bluebirdmama1

What is so difficult to keep going? When I was eating Gluten, I would make bread once a week and feed my starter then and them put it back in the fridge till next use. It made great bread every time.

I think I might have been feeding it too much, or not enough. I'm not sure. I think I may give it another try this summer.

[ursusarctos]

Originally Posted by AJP

Oats don't stick with me, either. It usually feels like I might as well not have eaten, and lately (the last couple of years), I really don't enjoy the flavor of soaked oats at all. I used to like it, but no more, and it feels really heavy and sour in my stomach. I don't have that reaction with other grains, soaked or not, although I do need some more concentrated protein along with grains in order to not feel hungry before it's time for the next meal (no matter how much fat I have with the grains). I haven't tried barley porridge, but we do eat rice porridge regularly. I'll have to try making no-knead bread with barley, that sounds really good.

I love grains as part of my meals, and with the exception of oats I haven't felt any negative reaction to eating any whole grain, nor have I detected any in my family, whether the grain has been soaked or sprouted or not. Refined grains can make me feel tired and/or bloated shortly after eating them if I eat too much (like refined-flour pasta or white rice), but not whole grains.

Interesting that you have the same issues with oats! I wonder what could make it so different with other grains.

Barley is definitely my favorite for no-knead bread so far. It gets tangier and chewier than the rye and whole wheat that I tried before.

I also feel tired and bloated after eating much refined grains! Shocking, isn't it? But I definitely notice the difference now more than I used to, since I've gotten used to eating almost nothing but whole grains.

Thanks for the congee tips, rhiandmoi and TanyaLopez!

[rhiandmoi]

So I tried sprouting some oat groats that I got from the bulk bin at WF. That did not work. I followed the instructions at sproutpeople, but I think I let them soak for closer to an hour and I think they probably did get water logged. They started to smell really bad, so I tossed them.

This morning, I set out to try sprouting some more oat groats, and I totally forgot them in the soak water. So I guess I'm soaking those. I didn't add any acid to the soak water, so should I rinse them and stir them into yogurt when I get home? Or should I just add a few drops of lemon juice to the soak water and leave them overnight?

[AJP]

According to what I've read about oats, the "raw" oat groats you'd get from the bin at WF (or most other natural food stores) are not raw, and therefore won't sprout. I've read in a number of places that nearly all oats are steam-treated or roasted prior to making it to market, because the heat stabilizes the fats in the bran and extends the shelf life. Apparently oats go rancid very quickly once the hull is removed, more quickly than other grains. I've seen truly raw oats advertised, but only by mail order (I think it might have been in the back of Wise Traditions).

I've actually wondered if this is why soaking oats alone results in relatively less phytate reduction than other grains. I've read that they're lower in phytase enzyme so it's good to add some wheat or rye to your oats when soaking to contribute more phytase (which I have done, and it doesn't make them any more agreeable to my body), but perhaps that's because oats have been steamed and most of the phytase is deactivated by that process.

[rhiandmoi]

Good to know about the steam treatment of the oats. I was wondering if it was worth it to order oats from sproutpeople, so I guess the answer is yes.