I cannot stand being around DS

[Punchy Kaby]

DS is 4 and lately is pushing all of my buttons. I can hardly stand to be around him. It starts in the morning when he comes in and wakes the baby and me up. The baby keeps me up a lot at night and I am always exhausted so he comes in (sometimes when it is still dark, we have asked him to stay in his room until it is light out.) Then he starts in with squealing at the baby, then wrestling her, then jumping on me, falling on me. At this point I have said, please be gentle a million times. It usually ends with me getting furious and yelling at him and leaving the room.

Then there is the arguing, about nothing, for 30 minutes. Today he wanted his blue pants. I answered that they are dirty, pick another pair. (I went with him and set out his options.) He must have said I want my blue pants 30 times. I just started to ignore him and left the room. He followed and continued the argument. I don't even remember how it ended, though he did have black pants on eventually.

After out playdate (at which I spent tons of time just playing with him, not paying attention to the baby) we get in the van and he says he wants to ride in the car. "Daddy has the car at work, you can ride in it tomorrow." Arguing continues. Then we get into the van, he wants to ride in the front seat. Arrr! After getting no where with explanations I look at my phone until he straps himself in.

Then at reading time (before nap) he will not leave the baby alone. I start with "please pay attention to the book, you can ignore the baby, she'll be fine." then he starts to tackle her. He has already made choices, like which books, how many books and 5 minutes of play time instead of snuggle time.

This was our day today. ARRRG! Did I mention I am frustrated?! Do I have to see this child anytime in the next week? Get me away from him!

I know I am not explaining everything to the letter of how I do it, but DS gets tons of choices throughout his day. He gets one on one attention everyday, not just from me but also with DH and other adults that are close friends. He made our close friends very angry when they babysat him. By the end of the day I don't want to see him anymore. I do not enjoy spending time with him. I hate the arguing.

I don't know what to do. I have been reading Playful Parenting, but honestly I don't know how to diffuse situations when I feel like wringing his neck.

[Violet2]

It sounds really frustrating!

I don't have a lot of ideas b/c I am not dealing with 4 BUT I did want to pass on an idea I got from a magazine article.

It talked about setting things up so kids can get up and do their own things in the morning. Age appropriate alone time while you sleep longer.

Some parents set up a special craft, have a DVD ready to go and a self-serve breakfast available.

I don't know if that's an option for you, but it would give you more sleep and keep DS entertained.

Also, have you thought about preschool? Sometimes it helps to have an objective third party saying 'you can't do this, you have to do this' etc...

V

[jeliphish]

Not a lot of time to reply but wanted to say quickly that some kids don't respond well to a lot of choices... Sometimes that can lead to them feeling overwhelmed and behavior becomes more of an issue. I would try really hard to not make so many things negotiatable with him. - like with the pants: "DS, here are 2 pants you can chose to wear today - if you can't pick one without arguing then I will pick them for you". And then follow through with what you say. I can easily get to the spot that you are in but I have to remind myself every now and again that it's my job to guide her and to maintain peace within the home. Making everything negotiateable takes away the structure that I am supposed to create and makes my child overwhelmed with the task of sorting through too much.

[jeliphish]

Also... For me, if my child is getting up early in the morn (7 or after) I feel it's my responsibility to go ahead and get up. I leave the baby to sleep and go ahead and take care of my responsibilities to the one who is up.

[aris99]

I am currently in the same boat! The ONLY advice I can offer is find some GABA (calming supplement) and see if you can't get more sleep yourself or some time off...even if it's just 15 mins here and there. I cannot control my 4 yo dd because she is off the rails right now BUT things always go better if I can distract her from the point of contention. For example, in your case of the blue vs black pants, I would have said (if I'm in my right mind still) in an excited loud voice, "hey! Look at that huge plane in the sky!!!" Then you can kind of move your son away from the subject at hand and he can start arguing about the fact there is no plane. At least this gives you a min to get him into the black pants w/out his noticing. I think it's a control issue....and it will pass! Hang in there!

[Bokonon]

Yeah, I am so right there with you. DS has been AWFUL lately.

[Dandelionkid]

We have an almost 4 yr old ds that really loves to have his own way (of course!) My sil is recommending "raising the highly-spirited child". It is really hard to be playful when you are gritting your teeth. I have been there too. In the morning we do the "if you talk or move around in bed you have to get down" thing- then dh will help by removing him off the bed cause I have the baby. We still struggle with it though. I usually give him 2 choices, as a pp said, then I gear up for a tantrum because he has little break-downs all through the day. It must be the age? The storm before the calm maybe

[ktmeyer]

I had the same issues at that age, I do think part of it is the age. 5 years old is SOOOOOOO much better. In the meantime, like pp said, for some reason some kids don't handle all the choices well. My mom had to point it out to me. (hate it when she is right!). So I stopped giving him so much responsibility, which he obviously wasn't handling well anyway. So instead of asking him what he wanted for dinner, I just made something I knew he liked. Etc etc etc. It really did help, but it took about a week.

Also, I'd say that as soon as he gets up in the morning you get up quickly, get him a granola bar or something similar, a juice box, and turn on pbs kids. Tell him when you will be back out, and see if he can entertain himself that way. Otherwise, at 4 years old, he may really be hungy/bored/scared and need to come into your room. I know you are tired because of the baby, but that's not his fault, you know? It doesn't change his needs at all. Just a thought. OH, and could his bedtime be moved later, so he gets up later?

[momma_unlimited]

My 4 yo son sleeps better and longer if he goes outside. Hard, cause its so cold but I make him in all but the most hideous weather for at least 5 minutes several times a day!

I recommend a morning routine you enjoy. I don't attach mine to times (ie at 6am we do this), but to *order*. So, whether my 2 yo wakes up at 5:30 or 7 screaming "I'm poopy!", procedure is to change him and off to the bathroom we go. If baby is up, she goes in her portable swing in the bathroom and 2yo takes a shower with me in a baby tub in the shower pushed against the far side of the shower. I keep *only candles on in the bathroom* when he wakes me earlier than I'd like, as my way of extending the sleep peaceful feeling, and have a couple special morning songs I sing while in the shower. Kind of a soothing ritual so I don't start off frustrated. For my 4 yo, I need activities for him planned ahead. He likes when I print off coloring pages/mazes from the internet and have them in a special folder for him to do in the morning.

[CrunchyKatie]

Hang in there, Momma! I know how you feel! My DS is 4, and I also have a wee babe. This is HARD work. I have to concur with previous posts that getting outside can really help. My son has "BIG ENERGY", and most days I just plain don't. I know it is not always an option for us because on those days that it is painfully cold out, I can't have the baby outdoors for too long, and I don't have a fenced yard where I can watch him from the window or anything like that. If I can bundle us up (which sometime feels like it is MORE difficult than just dealing with him ricocheting off the walls, oof) then on those days I'll just WALK. I keep a steady pace and he can jump and crash and whatever the entire way, and I can kind of go zen while we're moving, the babe will sleep in the carrier usually. On the days we do something like that I really see a difference behavior wise. I also think limiting the choices a little bit may help, but if you can check out Naomi Aldort's Raising Our Children Raising Ourselves. I read it all during naptimes over a couple of days and there is a lot of good stuff in there, at least for me. It is amazing what validating your child's feelings will do to diffuse an issue... Other than that, I am right there with you. 4 has been the hardest age for me so far. I am hoping it is just a 4 thing, and 5 will bring new different challenges that I am better adept to handle, you know?

Hugs to you!

[CrunchyKatie]

Just wanted to clarify the feeling validation thing with your example... When your DS wanted the blue pants, instead of telling him his other options and eventually ignoring him, say something along the lines of, "You want to wear your blue pants. You're upset because they are dirty." and see how he responds. Just reflect back to him what he is telling you. I was surprised by how quickly my son would move on after a minute or so of this...

[lovermont]

I'm releived to read it's not just us!
We're so DONE with our almost-4-year-old. He's had this ongoing cold for the past couple weeks and has been up for a couple hours in the middle of the night 2 out of 3 nights for the last couple weeks. We're so frustrated with him from the morning when he can't dress himself (has done so fine in the past), insists on the underwear that are in the laundry, etc.
And he's always been a super mellow kid so we're at a loss.
He has started hitting me when he's frustrated and screaming/yelling his words.
He can articulate his wants/needs but gets REALLY frustrated when we can't/won't do what he wants (last night he wanted to stay awake all night and it was a big fight to get him to change clothes for bed and brush his teeth- brushing teeth is ALWAYS a fight!).
But it sounds like it's a 4-year-old phase.... oh no! I was hoping it would get better when he felt better.
I also read somewhere that the time around their birthdays... or maybe it was around their 1/2 birthdays? I can't remember. One or the other tends to be rougher.

[gini1313]

Originally Posted by CrunchyKatie

Just wanted to clarify the feeling validation thing with your example... When your DS wanted the blue pants, instead of telling him his other options and eventually ignoring him, say something along the lines of, "You want to wear your blue pants. You're upset because they are dirty." and see how he responds. Just reflect back to him what he is telling you. I was surprised by how quickly my son would move on after a minute or so of this...

This is exactly what I was thinking of. I was going to suggest reading Connection Parenting. It sounds like you have a very little baby and that is hard with an older child, but it is also hard for your DS to suddenly not be the only child, the baby, etc. He may be having a hard transition with having a baby in the house and it doesn't sound like that is being acknowledged. Was he able to come to you in your bed before the baby was born? If so, he probably doesn't understand why he can't now... he probably doesn't get that the baby kept you up at night, so you are sleepy still. Even if you have told him. And, he may be resentful if he used to get to come play with/snuggle with you when he woke up and now (since the baby came), he is supposed to stay in his room. Could you leave the baby sleeping and go lie on the couch with him with a movie on?

My son was 6 before he could handle limits on when he could come out of his room in the AM. Now he waits until 7 AM. He will also come downstairs and play on his own if dd and I are still sleeping. But, until he was about 6, he would either come get into bed with me, or I would get up and come downstairs with him so dd could keep sleeping in my bed. That may be a little bit of a high expectation for a 4 year old, and as a pp said, it isn't his fault if the baby kept you up at night.

I know it is so hard to have a little one, be sleep deprived, and be frustrated with your older one. It would be so easy if he could just do what you/the baby needs, but unfortunately he is still little, too, and has his own needs. If he isn't getting those needs (whatever they are) met, it is going to be super hard for all of you all the time. That is why I would recommend reading Connection Parenting. Whenever I feel frustrated with one of my kids, I re read it and it brings me back to focusing on our connection and meeting ALL of our needs, and it really helps. (now, I will reread this post in about 3 weeks when my new little one arrives and I am tired and frustrated, lol)

[K-Mom3]

I feel your pain! I have been there! My ds has gotten a lot better as he's gotten a little older. Having time to socialize with other kids at playdates, preschool and K have helped him a lot as well. When I get stuck in a rut one day, I see if I can change the scene or situation--for example, if he's arguing about dressing, I'll say, whoever is dressed in 10 minutes gets to come with me to the park!

My best suggestion is to teach him clearly what he should do instead and reward him for it. My SIL came up with this great plan for her 5 yo. They have a little race course and he can move his little car along the course everytime he handles a "no" answer appropriately. When he gets to the end of the course (I think there are 12 spots) he gets a reward--I think it was a special outing with Dad. My SIL said she even started telling him "this is your opportunity to work toward your goal" when she tells him no and that really helps him to not throw a fit or argue. He really likes the plan and has really improved. Another good thing about this plan is that it only works on one skill. Y'know, let other bad behaviors go a bit if you can and just choose one thing to work on with him at a time.

[Anastasiya]

I agree with the PP about the choices thing. Sometimes kids are at a phase where offering choices is a good thing and helps them feel more in control. Sometimes they're at a phase where offering choices backfires because they feel bewildered with having to make a decision. Sometimes they just want to be kids and change their minds a thousand times and their previously picked choice means zilch to them. I think, for me, the key is knowing when the child needs the freedom of choices and when the child needs "big mean authoritarian parent."

When my kids get like this, the choices disappear for awhile, and I call the shots. "Your blue pants are dirty. You can wear these black ones."
"But I want blue!"
"Your blue ones are dirty. You need to wear black ones today."
"I want bluuuuuue!"
"You can put these on yourself or I will do it for you."
(Child collapses to floor in a fit)
"Very well, I will do it then."

etc...

As for the morning routine, if possible I'd head him off at the pass. As soon as you hear him walking down the hall to your room, jump out of bed and put him back in his own bed. "It's not light out yet, back to bed."

Repeat as needed. Sorry, but I would not tolerate his whole morning routine of jumping and falling on you and riling up the baby. Not that you tolerate it either, but I wouldn't even let it get to that point. Why end up with you angry and him upset?

I would think after a few mornings of this he'd realize getting out of bed before it's light doesn't work.

[crowcaw]

I have 4.5 yo twins and for quite awhile they weren't getting enough sleep because the second they opened their eyes they were out of bed and coming to find me -- usually somewhere between 5:00 and 5:30. About a year ago I purchased an "alarm" clock for their bedroom that instead of ringing changes color at the set time. I showed them what it did and I set it for 6:30 and they were told they needed to stay in their rooms until the clock changes color. If they came out too early I'd ask if their clock had changed and if it hadn't take them back to their rooms and after a couple days they had it where no amount of me telling them it was too early and they had to go back to bed ever kept them there without constant shouting of "can we get up yet" and ensuing tantrums as they got more restless. They still often come out at 5 or so to use the toilet but then go back into their rooms and fall back to sleep rather than being awake for the day.

I also agree with the fewer choices thing that pp are advocating and it seems to make life easier in lots of areas. For clothing however, they are now making their own choices but from a limited set of options. I found for us what worked better than offering other choices in the instant that an upset due to wanting clothes that were dirty or inappropriate to the weather was occurring was instituting a few known "policies" for getting dressed. I started only resupplying clean clothes once a week on the same day every week (and that day has become their favorite day of the week) and I removed from the closets/dressers all seasonally inappropriate clothing or clothing that doesn't fit or that I didn't want them wearing everyday. They now can put on any thing or combinations of things in their closet/dresser as long as their arms and legs are covered (for winter). If they're having a hard day and can't make a choice, I make it for them. It took a couple of weeks of me calmly stating what was happening to get used to these policies, but now getting dressed in the morning is pretty painless and there are far fewer incidents.

I know these are only a couple of your issues and your question was probably more of a general what can I do. I really like the Playful Parenting approach and use it a lot but have found for areas where we have repeated struggles I need to re-evaluate the way we're appoaching things and make a gently enforceable general policy about "this is the way it's going to happen." We still have lots of things that are buttons for me where I haven't figured out a way to smooth it out (the two of them fighting and teasing each other, for instance), but I have been able to eliminate some of are big re-occurring conflicts this way.

HTH C.

[Punchy Kaby]

thank you for all the suggestions. His sleep is at that in between stage right now-most days he needs a nap, but if he naps too long it disrupts his nighttime sleep(he wakes too early in the morning).

Weekends are hard (esp. this past one with the cold weather! we did go out and sled), he has swimming and tae kwon do during the week as well as going to the babysitter 3 days. He has soooo much energy .

[mamazee]

Sometimes just wording something differently makes a ridiculously huge difference. "I hear that you want to wear your blue pants. I wish they were clean so you could wear them. I wish we had 200 pairs of those blue pants so we'd always have a clean pair!"

[Thalia the Muse]

That "one nap is too many and no naps is not enough" stage is sooo hard, even aside from everything else you have going on! I agree that he's probably having a hard time adjusting to the new baby, especially if it's in your bed and he isn't. I was going to suggest activities/preschool, but it sounds like he's already got that.

Is it possible he'd be willing to channel some of that energy into being your helper? messing around in the kitchen arranging cut fruit on the plate for snacktime, or cutting the fruit himself with supervision, or stacking diapers, or wiping the table after meals? Kids that age aren't always actually HELPFUL when they "help," but it can make them feel proud and fix the dynamic of annoying behavior and resentful feelings you're stuck in at the moment ...

[Treehuggermama5]

I haven't even read all the replies yet, but I just wanted to tell you that I could have written this post word for word about my DD! I just read this to my DH and we laughed because it describes her so well! Now, I am going to spend the evening reading the posts on how to make everything better! haha